Second time around, still great, Tarkin wasn't as jarring now.

And:

Regarding Leia and the Tantice IV blatantly fleeing the scene of the crime... I have to imagine an official member of the Senate deeply involved in an illegal rebellion isn't flying around in a ship with only one IFF code. And of all the Rebel ships present at Scarif hers is the one most likely to have recourse for a second IFF. Sure, it's the Tantive IV. But while docked it could just as easily be the Womp Rat. I doubt the visual recognition piece. I highly doubt Bail is sending his daughter into battle, his daughter and fellow undercover conspirator, in a ship with House Organa markings. CR-90s are ubiquitous ships across the GALAXY too and in the movies whenever we see the Tantive IV it simply had a different generic color stripe from other CR-90s. It's a generic paint job.

Now You could make a case that Vader/Anakin recognized it because he was familiar with Bail but even that is a stretch. Bail is one of several thousand senators. He's a major one so that helps. Honestly, I think the real give away is the Rebel crew he's cutting down are in uniform. I'd say they're Alderaanian uniforms but we see that kit on Rebel crew elsewhere. So when he boards the Tantive IV and they're all dressed the same -- let alone firing -- that's a solid connection.

The real question is, if Scarif is near Tatooine as somebody cited with a source earlier, then it is likely the Devestator crew caught the Tantive IV's outbound vector. Easy thing to follow up on just in case. And when they jump in system to find an identical looking CR-90 in orbit it's a reasonable assumption it's the very same. And as Imperials they aren't going to inquire, they're going to demand they stop. This puts the crew of the Tantive IV in a weird place. Do you resist and bluff dimplomatic mission? Or do you feign innocence and allow the boarding party? After all it is just a floppy disk. Put it in a zip log baggie and hide it in the loo.

But no, ultimately this is an all or nothing moment and the crew is still riding that high. You probably view it as a continuation of the battle so such a cool response isn't likely to be considered. (As for bluffing being too big a risk, I don't think so. Ignoring the command to stop "because we have immunity" guarantees negative attention and likely a boarding as well. Actual fleeing does the same, plus if you've switched back to your official IFF you just blew your cover. So I conclude a bluff is just as dangerous, possibly very slightly less so since at least there's a chance of talking your way out. All other options are a devil may care race to deliver the message.)

The moment of truth is who fired first. If the ISD does then the Tantive can return fire under cover of being an aggrieved diplomatic ship acting in self-defense. Ditto for the hostile greeting party. But suppose some jumpy gunner or understandably still in the heat of battle stressed Captain Antillies gave the order to fire as soon as the ISD appeared? That would be an understandable reaction, after all, you know you're a Rebel ship fleeing a battle. If that happened then they confirmed the Devestator's suspicion at most. At the very least you just gave them cause to board you with lethal prejudice.

In conclusion I don't think being "seen" did the Tantive IV in. It wasn't recognized as such, making Leia's presence confirmation or anything. I think Vader just follows their last known course and there they are. This creates a tense stand off with no good options for the Tantive IV. Riding the momentum of the do or die battle they just barely escaped, they simply view it as a continuation of the last battle and instinctively fire. Or maybe the Devestator orders them to stand down and Antilles resists, using their diplomatic cover as a desperate excuse. Either way the Imperials aren't having it. Somebody fires first and the rest is history.

Leia's rebuke to Vader is just professionalism. A caught spy can't just admit they're a spy. Vader calls bull and she plays the part all the way to the end because, at the very least, she's protecting her world, father, and the cause. Leia only reveals her anti-Imperial sentiments once Tarkin makes it clear she's going to die. Likewise he can only do that because the senate is gone, something in Rogue One they admit they can't do until they have the Dearh Star complete to use as a means of control).

Vader would take care of the fleet, Tarkin took clear, decisive action to ensure that if the Rebels hadn't already, wouldn't get the data. Eliminating Krennkc, well that's just a bonus. Let's not assume they knew the ground battle was over and really, this was an installation in the back of beyond (right next to Tatooine) not a place you'd put something vital.

Although Krennic was discredited, I think Tarkin was thinking about the future. If Krennic deals with the data breach, he's probably not in the woods for all that long. He's a smart guy who knows the Death Star inside and out. Even exiled to some crummy Outer Rim position, he would be a threat to Tarkin just because Tarkin's other rivals could use Krennic as a resource. Knocking out the Rebels on the planet was a convenient cover for offing Krennic.

A politically self-serving move that demonstrates Tarkin's selfishness and short-sightedness. The Empire had covered up bigger things than that with far less effort, and really it would have been pretty trivial to obfuscate just what the Rebels stole or even to claim that the theft had been for nought.

Tarkin in Ep. IV was told that the rebels strategy had a chance of succeeding, yet he dismissed it arrogantly. Why are you acting as if utterly demolishing every trace of rebel attackers (and his rival) on imperial soil in a scorched earth maneuver is some how NOT exactly what he would do? It IS exactly the thing he'd do.

When I think about it, Leia and the Tantive IV should've jumped elsewhere and then immediately changed vectors. Rushing to Obi-wan seems kind of sloppy. Because really, what is Obi-wan going to do? Rally more senators? Lead the attack on the Death Star? All things that take a little time to set up. Why not shake the Imperials and then go to him at your leisure? The only reason I can see is the same as I said above, that the crew of the Tantive IV are so panicked coming out of the flames of Scarif that the heat of the moment carries them into rushing the mission.

Ultimately that's satisfying. My only quibble is Leia is supposed to be rather cool under pressure. So I'd think her immune to that kind of rash decision making.

When I think about it, Leia and the Tantive IV should've jumped elsewhere and then immediately changed vectors. Rushing to Obi-wan seems kind of sloppy. Because really, what is Obi-wan going to do? Rally more senators? Lead the attack on the Death Star? All things that take a little time to set up. Why not shake the Imperials and then go to him at your leisure? The only reason I can see is the same as I said above, that the crew of the Tantive IV are so panicked coming out of the flames of Scarif that the heat of the moment carries them into rushing the mission.

Ultimately that's satisfying. My only quibble is Leia is supposed to be rather cool under pressure. So I'd think her immune to that kind of rash decision making.

We don't know how soon after the jump Vader caught up to her. Hyperspace jumps aren't traceable, so it could have been an hour, twelve hours, a day, or a week between Rogue One and Ep.4.

Jumping through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops kid.

It takes time to recalculate coordinates, you can't exactly outrun a Star Destroyer in a CR90 and getting the plans to a Jedi master for him to get it to the Rebellion isn't exactly a bad plan.

We don't know how soon after the jump Vader caught up to her. Hyperspace jumps aren't traceable, so it could have been an hour, twelve hours, a day, or a week between Rogue One and Ep.4.

Cronau Radiation

Speaking of Jedi, Vader's scene at the end gives a new appreciation for old Obi-Wan and the fact that he even lives for a few minutes agaisnt Vader in a duel. You can see why those Stormtroopers rushed for water heater the fight, they'd only ever seen Vader wreck face. Here was some old dude that was actually making the boss work.

When I think about it, Leia and the Tantive IV should've jumped elsewhere and then immediately changed vectors. Rushing to Obi-wan seems kind of sloppy. Because really, what is Obi-wan going to do? Rally more senators? Lead the attack on the Death Star? All things that take a little time to set up. Why not shake the Imperials and then go to him at your leisure? The only reason I can see is the same as I said above, that the crew of the Tantive IV are so panicked coming out of the flames of Scarif that the heat of the moment carries them into rushing the mission.

Ultimately that's satisfying. My only quibble is Leia is supposed to be rather cool under pressure. So I'd think her immune to that kind of rash decision making.

We don't know how soon after the jump Vader caught up to her. Hyperspace jumps aren't traceable, so it could have been an hour, twelve hours, a day, or a week between Rogue One and Ep.4.

All I know is that it was the worst week ever for Ponda Baba.

On a side note - I like the models associated with this film. I was surprised to discover the TIE/sk (striker) had movable wings. Wonderful!!!

Somethingto consider about why The Tantive IV was there and in the hold:

Leia disobeyed orders, rendezvoused with the battlegroup headed to Scarrif and was immediately, by Raddus, taken into the hold for protection - possibly as a favour to Bail. Upon boarding, the Tantive IV takes on as many rebels as possible before jumping out.

Leia is a headstrong 19 year old, that while very savvy, may not have the tactical acumen to avoid the battle

I have just arrived from seeing Rogue One.... is way better than Episode VII... In my opinion it could be the best Star Wars movie of all.

Excelent

Somethingto consider about why The Tantive IV was there and in the hold:

Leia disobeyed orders, rendezvoused with the battlegroup headed to Scarrif and was immediately, by Raddus, taken into the hold for protection - possibly as a favour to Bail. Upon boarding, the Tantive IV takes on as many rebels as possible before jumping out.

Leia is a headstrong 19 year old, that while very savvy, may not have the tactical acumen to avoid the battle

Thank you sir. Now, if you could just deal with the Rey haters (for apparently being perfect and stumbling from one moment to the next, in the most "Star Wars" way), I´ll buy you a beer!

Excelent

Somethingto consider about why The Tantive IV was there and in the hold:

Leia disobeyed orders, rendezvoused with the battlegroup headed to Scarrif and was immediately, by Raddus, taken into the hold for protection - possibly as a favour to Bail. Upon boarding, the Tantive IV takes on as many rebels as possible before jumping out.

Leia is a headstrong 19 year old, that while very savvy, may not have the tactical acumen to avoid the battle

Thank you sir. Now, if you could just deal with the Rey haters (for apparently being perfect and stumbling from one moment to the next, in the most "Star Wars" way), I´ll buy you a beer!

Let's not bring up the bad fan-fiction character in a thread where we can discuss well written heroines like Leia Organa and Jyn Erso.

It also covered the tracks of the rebels so that Tarkin could claim to the rest of the Empire that nothing was stolen and that the rebels were comprehensively defeated. in ANH only he and Vader make reference to the plans, it's entirely possible no one else knows they were even stolen.

"You sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you to conjure up the stolen data tapes..." - Admiral Motti.

Data tapes for what? If only we could examine the facility to see what files had been accessed or delivered...

And remember during Rogue One Tarkin informed Krennic that they would publicly deny existence of the Death Star and blame the destruction of Jedha on an earthquake. In a situation where you aren't 100% sure if your super-weapon is going to become public knowledge or not, covering your tracks seems like a good idea.

A politically self-serving move that demonstrates Tarkin's selfishness and short-sightedness. The Empire had covered up bigger things than that with far less effort, and really it would have been pretty trivial to obfuscate just what the Rebels stole or even to claim that the theft had been for nought.

Quite possibly. It was Tarkins arrogance that doomed him in Ep IV after all.

However, it's easy to armchair general his decision with 20/20 hindsight. From his point of view he didn't know how well the rebels on the beach were doing, if they'd succeeded or not already, what they'd taken and what the future of the battle station might be. The Empire is a vast, galaxy-spanning organisation so I think it's fair to decide, when put on the spot as he was, the destroy the facility. The cost of NOT destroying it could have been much higher than the cost of destroying it might have been. If the rebels had not yet succeeded, then he's averted the destruction of the Death Star in Ep IV and ensured the rule of the Emperor for the forsee-able future. If he doesn't destroy the facility and the rebels subsequently steal the plans, he stands to lose everything. And in a worst case scenario, he has to justify his decision to some kind of oversight committee. Seems like a no-brainer if you ask me. He may have reconsidered if he knew that the plans had already been stolen and transmitted, if Krennic wasn't on the surface, etc. But he was operating with an incomplete picture and made a perfectly reasonable decision, given the situation he was in.

Somethingto consider about why The Tantive IV was there and in the hold:

Leia disobeyed orders, rendezvoused with the battlegroup headed to Scarrif and was immediately, by Raddus, taken into the hold for protection - possibly as a favour to Bail. Upon boarding, the Tantive IV takes on as many rebels as possible before jumping out.

Leia is a headstrong 19 year old, that while very savvy, may not have the tactical acumen to avoid the battle

Or simply the Alliance needs every ship at Scarif so they cancel her mission to get Obi-Wan and send Tantive to help, when the Mon Cala ships gets disabled the corvette docks with it, gets the plans and runs away.

A detail that I haven't seen brought up yet - "Prepare the escape pods" right before they jump into hyperspace.

Maybe the idea was that they drop out of lightspeed over Tatooine, dump Leia with the plans and some people in escape pods to find Obi-Wan and return with him to Alderaan, undercover, and jump away? It didn't work all that well because Vader catched up too fast and launching the pods would be suicide.

I saw the movie in 2d and didn't have any problems with CGI characters. I really loved the movie, and I'm going to go watch it again, but in 3D this time. Everything about the movie screamed Star Wars, but it really was a groundbreaking film in the saga. Cassian was an amazing character, from opening scene to the end. For me, he was more developed than any other character in the movie. The opening scene where he murders his contact, and the super awkward scene on the shuttle after Jyn's father died. He just feels like a product of war, and he changes by the end in an amazing, but also very believable way. My heart hurt for him when K2SO sacrificed himself.

The scene just following was brilliant, and really made these characters more likeable than any others I've seen in the Star Wars saga. Cassian get shot, and Jyn gives him one look before she continues with the mission. If that was any of the other protagonists from the series it wouldn't have worked. Luke wouldn't leave someone behind like that, he is too soft emotionally. Finn and Rey, let's be honest, would have screamed the other's name, and had some stupid monologue about how they loved each other. Cassian and Jyn? Proceed with the mission, there's no time for touching moments. Amazing film, and easily one of the best Star Wars movies. If this is the direction Disney will take us, brilliant! Can't wait for the Han Solo story. Speaking of which, what ever happened to the rumors of a series based on the underworld of Coruscant?

Can't wait for the Han Solo story. Speaking of which, what ever happened to the rumors of a series based on the underworld of Coruscant?

Do you mean the game, 1313, that was cancelled?

So here's something interesting I've been thinking about: while Jyn Erso sounds (namewise) like Jan Ors, the depiction of her and the Rebellion, as well as the mission mirrors more closely the theft of the plans in the Han Solo trilogy (suicide mission, everyone dies, Tantive picks up the signal and jumps with a SD on its tail). The Rebel agent from that mission, Bria, was involved with Han Solo. Possible tie-in to the upcoming Solo movie? Only time will tell.

Seems like a no-brainer if you ask me. He may have reconsidered if he knew that the plans had already been stolen and transmitted, if Krennic wasn't on the surface, etc. But he was operating with an incomplete picture and made a perfectly reasonable decision, given the situation he was in.

That's one thing I *REALLY* liked about this one, vs Episode VII. In Episode VII, it seemed like all the characters knew too much . That is, they always made 'the right decision' to move the plot forward, even if there was no way they could have actually known what the right decision was. (On top of several characters making very bad decisions - but not bad because of information they lacked...the character would have known they were making the wrong choice, but the plot called for that specific decision, so off they go...)

In contrast, 'Rogue One' saw many characters making 'the right decision', but only as far as they could tell. And since the character was well-written to only have the information they would actually have ...the reality is that the decision they made was completely wrong.

The other standout example: people complaining about the Rebels going to kill Galen Erso after the Death Star was already finished, and what good could that possibly do? Better to bring him back and interrogate him! Well..sure..."we", the audience know that was a bad plan, because the weapon was already complete. But as far as the Rebels knew - the Empire was working on a planet-killing superweapon, and Galen Erso was a critical part of the project. That's all they knew! They didn't know it was finished - they didn't even know it had started construction. Given what information they had, their plan was probably the smartest one.

But, again, characters making believable decisions, given their situation and incomplete information.

So I just saw this movie and I think it's really good, and a standout in the series. I think we won't get anymore like it because the marketing machine is still marketing it for kids, and this isn't that.

There's a few bones of contention though, like why even have Brody Rook get mind probed if he'll be ok soon after. Or how the one-by-one sacrifices of everyone were kinda rendered meaningless when Tarkin blows the base up anyways. I think having one or two protagonists survive may have made a better movie, but wouldn't have fit the continuity as well.

Also, I think the cargo shuttles are smaller than they should be to actually ferry cargo for moom-sized stations and would have preferred Sentinel or even Gozanti class ships.

The mind probe think was to reinforce how extreme Saw was. He's become Imperial in his doctrine; the ends justify the means.

This gives contrast to the Alliance. We see the military/intelligence struggling with the same moral dilemma while Mon Mothma and Organa keep to the idealistic approach as long as they can.

Still it was a bit daft to have him just snap out of it.

I loved that they all died. Sod have been so easy for them to have a could make it. Cassian and Jyn could easily survive without impacting on the OT. That they are almost all gone by the time Tarkin plays "kill a rival with a superlaser" is actually better. It shows us a competent Empire. Not efficient as they sure as hell have numbers pull them through, but competent. Bodhi going to a grenade tossed in almost as an afterthought..

Every other Star Wars has been more about the "Star". The individual stories, Rogue One focused more on the "Wars" and the things you say are very much simply part of that differing tone I think.

Saw this posted on another forum:

I actually do like it as "Krennic's horrible middle management experience".

- First, he goes the extra mile to finish his project. Top management set unreasonable expectations and so he wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty. He's good at engineering and the test is the only time he looks happy.
- But then, his manager shows up, decides that the real genius was coming up with the concept, that all of the practical work is for proles, and that he can leave the entire engineering team out of his report.
- He goes to complain to HR. But guess what? The HR management is in another building, likes to spend its time lounging around in bubble baths, is totally out of touch with the common employee, and threatens him with firing for even bringing up the issue.
- Like any good engineer, he decides to work harder to prove himself once and for all. Surely finishing the leftover action items will get him to employee of the month again! So he goes back to the factory floor, to deal with urgent issues. But guess what? Top management decides that they'd rather not deal with him anymore, and fire him. Or, well, at him. With a death star.


Honestly, that's pretty much the story of my previous job. Except for the death star superlaser part