I continue to wonder about the proclivity of the Empire to put important technological controls in incredibly dangerous places. Like the tractor beam controls on the Death Star. Seriously, doesn't the Imperial Office of Safety at least require hand rails? Or better yet, put the controls in a ROOM with a FLOOR. How many innocent Imperial technicians fell to their deaths simply turning the tractor beam on or off for routine maintenance? Then there's the comm tower on Scarif. OK, sure, I can see the transmission controls being at the top of the tower, but why put the dish alignment controls at the end of a completely unnecessary catwalk (albeit, with handrails this time)? Why not put them RIGHT NEXT TO THE COMM CONTROLS?! You know...where they're needed?

Don't get me wrong. I LOVED the movie, and I know it's all for dramatic effect. Just a bit illogical.

It's actually quite common in large dishes to put the control unit a bit away, for two reasons:

1. so you can actually see what's going on with the dish

2. if something fails, you're away from the large moving object that might hit you on the head.

Aaand I should read the topic to the end before replying...

With a thread this size it is entirely understood that you may be missing something.

That does actually sum up some of the issues I had with Rogue One rather amusingly.

Some interesting points, but the guy also basically said he's a fan of the Vong.

Is there anything in canon that says the empire is anti-alien? Or is all of that legends now?

Is there anything in canon that says the empire is anti-alien? Or is all of that legends now?

Hard to say. Live action the Empire was always humans-only. Rebels has introduced Thrawn and the Inquisitors were also non-human so I am not sure if the anti-alien aspect is still cannon.

Actually, in ine if the latest canon novels, the empire does descriminate against aliens. The sexist nature is mainly that the Empire encourages citizens to, basically breed more stormtroopers. Women can hold important posistions in the empire; Rae Sloane, Cienna Ree, Governor Price, etc, but it is encouraged that women give birth to the next generation over focusing in career. Homosexuality is looked down upon because it doesn't lead to breeding, nothing else.

The empire even dissuades officers from eating real food, instead consuming a nutrient rich smoothie that gives you everything you need, and saves time.

The empire needs material and troops, citizens provide this.

The mid -season 3 trailer is out. It looks awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upN-7ALj2OU

So my buddy says his buddy saw a TIE Defender in the Scariff battle. Can anyone confirm the sighting? I'm skeptical.

I thought i saw a defender too, but it probably just was a striker

Eh, wrong thread...

That does actually sum up some of the issues I had with Rogue One rather amusingly.

Meh... none of that is exactly new information though, is it? People have been talking about the Rebellion as essentially being a terrorist organisation for decades now - all Rogue One does is shine a spotlight on it and make it harder to avoid the discussion.

The Rebellion is not squeaky clean, and it never has been. Hit and run tactics, strikes of opportunity on lightly defended targets, supply convoys and installations, but very rarely direct action - the X-Wing PC games were based almost entirely around these scenarios. It's only in Return of the Jedi - when the Alliance has recruited enough forces to it's cause - that the Rebellion unites against the Empire in (a still very one sided) open battle.

The obvious parallels to Nazi occupied France and the "war" in the Middle East aside, I'm glad Rogue One went down this particular route.

That does actually sum up some of the issues I had with Rogue One rather amusingly.

Meh... none of that is exactly new information though, is it? People have been talking about the Rebellion as essentially being a terrorist organisation for decades now - all Rogue One does is shine a spotlight on it and make it harder to avoid the discussion.

The Rebellion is not squeaky clean, and it never has been. Hit and run tactics, strikes of opportunity on lightly defended targets, supply convoys and installations, but very rarely direct action - the X-Wing PC games were based almost entirely around these scenarios. It's only in Return of the Jedi - when the Alliance has recruited enough forces to it's cause - that the Rebellion unites against the Empire in (a still very one sided) open battle.

The obvious parallels to Nazi occupied France and the "war" in the Middle East aside, I'm glad Rogue One went down this particular route.

I think you hit the nail on the head with Nazi Vs. French Resistance. The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist group. It is a Partisan Group. Most of them don't attack civilians to cause fear and panic but instead play dirty against the empire military and supply lines. Definitely a fine line thing but there is a difference.

WOLVERINES!

Don't attack civillians? Just think of all those poor janitors, cooks and engineers on the Daath Star...

Don't attack civillians? Just think of all those poor janitors, cooks and engineers on the Daath Star...

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh quiet time.

I think you hit the nail on the head with Nazi Vs. French Resistance. The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist group. It is a Partisan Group. Most of them don't attack civilians to cause fear and panic but instead play dirty against the empire military and supply lines. Definitely a fine line thing but there is a difference.

WOLVERINES!

Honestly the distinction of terrorist vs. freedom fighter almost always comes down to which side you're on. One scene that really struck me in rogue one was the scene in the village with the 'tank' patrol. I've seen scenes like that in movies before but they're American war movies a la Hyena Road or Blackhawk Down and in those we're rooting for the 'stormtroopers' side.

That does actually sum up some of the issues I had with Rogue One rather amusingly.

Meh... none of that is exactly new information though, is it? People have been talking about the Rebellion as essentially being a terrorist organisation for decades now - all Rogue One does is shine a spotlight on it and make it harder to avoid the discussion.

The Rebellion is not squeaky clean, and it never has been. Hit and run tactics, strikes of opportunity on lightly defended targets, supply convoys and installations, but very rarely direct action - the X-Wing PC games were based almost entirely around these scenarios. It's only in Return of the Jedi - when the Alliance has recruited enough forces to it's cause - that the Rebellion unites against the Empire in (a still very one sided) open battle.

The obvious parallels to Nazi occupied France and the "war" in the Middle East aside, I'm glad Rogue One went down this particular route.

I think you hit the nail on the head with Nazi Vs. French Resistance. The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist group. It is a Partisan Group. Most of them don't attack civilians to cause fear and panic but instead play dirty against the empire military and supply lines. Definitely a fine line thing but there is a difference.

WOLVERINES!

The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist organization because it does not use terrorism as a strategy. Terrorism, in the most common definition I know, is applying violence to influence the psychology of a large group of people, usually by creating fear. The reason for blowing up the Death Star and other applications of violence by the rebels is not that they want to instil fear, the reason is that they want to cripple the Empire's military by destroying its most potent weapon.

Note that terrorism is not, by that definition, unsanctioned violence. Governments can perform terrorist acts (state terrorism), for example bombing a city just to demoralize a nation. Nor does terrorism imply that innocent people are the victim, it's possible to perform terrorist acts against armies and to kill innocents with non-terrorist acts.

I think you hit the nail on the head with Nazi Vs. French Resistance. The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist group. It is a Partisan Group. Most of them don't attack civilians to cause fear and panic but instead play dirty against the empire military and supply lines. Definitely a fine line thing but there is a difference.

WOLVERINES!

Honestly the distinction of terrorist vs. freedom fighter almost always comes down to which side you're on. One scene that really struck me in rogue one was the scene in the village with the 'tank' patrol. I've seen scenes like that in movies before but they're American war movies a la Hyena Road or Blackhawk Down and in those we're rooting for the 'stormtroopers' side.

Yes, but we use the term Insurgent now for the exact reason that Lingula points out above.

That does actually sum up some of the issues I had with Rogue One rather amusingly.

Meh... none of that is exactly new information though, is it? People have been talking about the Rebellion as essentially being a terrorist organisation for decades now - all Rogue One does is shine a spotlight on it and make it harder to avoid the discussion.

The Rebellion is not squeaky clean, and it never has been. Hit and run tactics, strikes of opportunity on lightly defended targets, supply convoys and installations, but very rarely direct action - the X-Wing PC games were based almost entirely around these scenarios. It's only in Return of the Jedi - when the Alliance has recruited enough forces to it's cause - that the Rebellion unites against the Empire in (a still very one sided) open battle.

The obvious parallels to Nazi occupied France and the "war" in the Middle East aside, I'm glad Rogue One went down this particular route.

I think you hit the nail on the head with Nazi Vs. French Resistance. The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist group. It is a Partisan Group. Most of them don't attack civilians to cause fear and panic but instead play dirty against the empire military and supply lines. Definitely a fine line thing but there is a difference.

WOLVERINES!

The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist organization because it does not use terrorism as a strategy. Terrorism, in the most common definition I know, is applying violence to influence the psychology of a large group of people, usually by creating fear. The reason for blowing up the Death Star and other applications of violence by the rebels is not that they want to instil fear, the reason is that they want to cripple the Empire's military by destroying its most potent weapon.

Note that terrorism is not, by that definition, unsanctioned violence. Governments can perform terrorist acts (state terrorism), for example bombing a city just to demoralize a nation. Nor does terrorism imply that innocent people are the victim, it's possible to perform terrorist acts against armies and to kill innocents with non-terrorist acts.

They are terrorist "From a certain point of view" ..... One man's freedom-fighter is another man's terrorist

I think you hit the nail on the head with Nazi Vs. French Resistance. The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist group. It is a Partisan Group. Most of them don't attack civilians to cause fear and panic but instead play dirty against the empire military and supply lines. Definitely a fine line thing but there is a difference.

WOLVERINES!

The first death star was nearly finished when Luke blow it, but even finished, the probability of not having in civilians in such a big structure was... dim.

A battleship might put to sea with construction workers aboard:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Prince_of_Wales_(53)

but that doesn't make it any less a valid target in warfare (or, for that matter, while under construction).

And the Death Star is far more formidable than battleships are - might be thought of as what you get if you cross a battleship with a ballistic missile submarine.

That does actually sum up some of the issues I had with Rogue One rather amusingly.

Meh... none of that is exactly new information though, is it? People have been talking about the Rebellion as essentially being a terrorist organisation for decades now - all Rogue One does is shine a spotlight on it and make it harder to avoid the discussion.

The Rebellion is not squeaky clean, and it never has been. Hit and run tactics, strikes of opportunity on lightly defended targets, supply convoys and installations, but very rarely direct action - the X-Wing PC games were based almost entirely around these scenarios. It's only in Return of the Jedi - when the Alliance has recruited enough forces to it's cause - that the Rebellion unites against the Empire in (a still very one sided) open battle.

The obvious parallels to Nazi occupied France and the "war" in the Middle East aside, I'm glad Rogue One went down this particular route.

I think you hit the nail on the head with Nazi Vs. French Resistance. The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist group. It is a Partisan Group. Most of them don't attack civilians to cause fear and panic but instead play dirty against the empire military and supply lines. Definitely a fine line thing but there is a difference.

WOLVERINES!

The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist organization because it does not use terrorism as a strategy. Terrorism, in the most common definition I know, is applying violence to influence the psychology of a large group of people, usually by creating fear. The reason for blowing up the Death Star and other applications of violence by the rebels is not that they want to instil fear, the reason is that they want to cripple the Empire's military by destroying its most potent weapon.

Note that terrorism is not, by that definition, unsanctioned violence. Governments can perform terrorist acts (state terrorism), for example bombing a city just to demoralize a nation. Nor does terrorism imply that innocent people are the victim, it's possible to perform terrorist acts against armies and to kill innocents with non-terrorist acts.

Well put. Couldn't find the right words to describe what you described.

The first death star was nearly finished when Luke blow it, but even finished, the probability of not having in civilians in such a big structure was... dim.

A battleship might put to sea with construction workers aboard:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Prince_of_Wales_(53)

but that doesn't make it any less a valid target in warfare (or, for that matter, while under construction).

the first death-star was built by Geonosians

the first death-star was built by Geonosians

Yup - slaves of the Empire - just as the V2s were built by slaves. Doesn't make a V2 construction facility an "invalid target".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hydra_(1943)

The first death star was nearly finished when Luke blow it, but even finished, the probability of not having in civilians in such a big structure was... dim.

A battleship might put to sea with construction workers aboard:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Prince_of_Wales_(53)

but that doesn't make it any less a valid target in warfare (or, for that matter, while under construction).

the first death-star was built by Geonosians

And then they were mostly wiped out, like the Lasat.

the first death-star was built by Geonosians

Yup - slaves of the Empire - just as the V2s were built by slaves. Doesn't make a V2 construction facility an "invalid target".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hydra_(1943)

They are a hive mind that kind of defeats the slave mind set as they killed each other to get the best jobs on the construction ....

I think you hit the nail on the head with Nazi Vs. French Resistance. The Rebel Alliance is not a terrorist group. It is a Partisan Group. Most of them don't attack civilians to cause fear and panic but instead play dirty against the empire military and supply lines. Definitely a fine line thing but there is a difference.

WOLVERINES!

The first death star was nearly finished when Luke blow it, but even finished, the probability of not having in civilians in such a big structure was... dim.

But Luke doesn't hesitate, and he does not so because he was a young desert native who lost his family to a military operation of a foreign ocuppation force of the most powerfull empire in his era; and then he was indoctrinated into an old religion by a bearded desert hermit; so indoctrinated that he started to hear religious voices in his head at the very moment of killing over a million people with an explosive device (as we said, with little chance of being only soldiers).

The rebel leaders did not even have the excuse of religious brainwashing, the second death star was under constuction (yes with a dead ray fully operative, but under construction), and the rebel alliance dont hesitate even a second and put to an end hundred of thousand of civilians lives (and the Empire was not precisely famous for employing only willing personal).

So... yes, it's a pretty fine line.

I guess the best defence a military vessel can have is a bunch of civilians, obviously noone will dare attack a vessel with civilians, even if said vessel is firing at him, it'd be so evil.

They are a hive mind that kind of defeats the slave mind set as they killed each other to get the best jobs on the construction ....

When it was the Republic building it, yes. Once the Empire started building (and Poggle had been killed by Anakin), the Geonosians didn't have any choice about what jobs they got - and at some point before Rebels Season 2, the Empire wiped out the Geonosian population. Presumably, new workers carried on construction during the final phase.