As Heinlein wrote: Enough violence solves everything.
Rogue One Discussion Thread
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Hammerhead cruiser was designed for ramming other ships. Maybe it was the Old Republic era ships, anybody ever heard of that?
It's harder to care about Tarkins ruthlessness when the people he's killing are already dead.
I think what made him seem so ruthless was he was willing to kill Everyone, including all those Imperial troopers and personal simply for the sake of eliminating a rival and potential threat. That is to me a very ruthless act.
I can't say the heroic sacrifice has ever done anything for me, in a movie where they have to die the deaths mean nothing. Vader tearing them apart was a great scene but it was nothing but fan service, you can't have a character like Vader do nothing nor can you him do everything. So instead you have him do something really cool but largely inconsequential, Storm Troopers blitzing the hallways would have had the exact same effect. As far as mourning red shirts, lets talk about the dozens of gunned down Storm Troopers or the half dozen who were killed execution style.
The best part of this movie was hands down how they made the Rebellion look. Cassian is a murderer, rebel high command is either extremely dickish or cowardly.
And I too thought it was awesome to see the grey morals of rebel spies! War is gritty. The opening scene of Cassian killing his informant was a revelation of how far the rebels at an individual level have had to go to achieve their means.
Edited by ArttemisI consider the act to be more calculating than ruthless. If you put into the balance the cost and crew of the Death Star vs the cost and crew of a single station, then one can be easily sacrificed to protect the other.
Considering how far Tarkin was willing to go (destroying an entire planet) then zapping a single ground installation seemed trivial in comparison.
Well this video hits some of the points I mentioned before except for one.
Although I wish the rebellion was a too much on the offensive to seem like it was in the dire state as it was in Episode 4. It was like the Rebellion could attack anywhere and everywhere no matter what. I was hoping for a Rebel Base evacuation before they reached Yavin 4.
Goes without saying, the video contains spoilers but will warn you before the spoiler section so you can stop the video.
Stormtroopers blitzing a hallway would just have been a continuation of the same battle. Darth Vader is clearly *not* just a hallway of stormtroopers; he's far more than that, and he's terrifying, and now they've drawn him directly into their battle. Any scenario where he and rebel soldiers are together will lead to the horror we saw.I can't say the heroic sacrifice has ever done anything for me, in a movie where they have to die the deaths mean nothing. Vader tearing them apart was a great scene but it was nothing but fan service, you can't have a character like Vader do nothing nor can you him do everything. So instead you have him do something really cool but largely inconsequential, Storm Troopers blitzing the hallways would have had the exact same effect. As far as mourning red shirts, lets talk about the dozens of gunned down Storm Troopers or the half dozen who were killed execution style.
The best part of this movie was hands down how they made the Rebellion look. Cassian is a murderer, rebel high command is either extremely dickish or cowardly.
And I too thought it was awesome to see the grey morals of rebel spies! War is gritty. The opening scene of Cassian killing his informant was a revelation of how far the rebels at an individual level have had to go to achieve their means.
But now we have this problem where we go from Vader murdering everyone to Storm Troopers assaulting the same ship shortly after and Vader just stands around waiting when he could full well just go slaughter them himself substantially easier. Is he tired? I'm pretty sure if he was the first thing those rebels saw after just narrowly escaping him already they'd kill themselves.
But now we have this problem where we go from Vader murdering everyone to Storm Troopers assaulting the same ship shortly after and Vader just stands around waiting when he could full well just go slaughter them himself substantially easier. Is he tired? I'm pretty sure if he was the first thing those rebels saw after just narrowly escaping him already they'd kill themselves.
He just felt like make the Storm Troopers earn their wage.
Apparently the scene of Jynn and the Tie fighter at the end of the gantry ended with the Tie being shot down at the last minute by an X-wing. However the scene apparently mirrored the scene where Baze's missile fails to stop the walker only for him to be rescued by an X-wing a few seconds later.
While I'm not sure which of the two I would have preferred, I'm glad they went with only one instead of both.
<Thinks back to The Phantom Menace as they drive the sub from Gungan city and twice are saved from one fish by a bigger fish. Then shudders>
As Heinlein wrote: Enough violence solves everything.
He also wrote "There are times when it would be as foolish to hit a city with an A-bomb as to spank a baby with an axe."
As Heinlein wrote: Enough violence solves everything.
He also wrote "There are times when it would be as foolish to hit a city with an A-bomb as to spank a baby with an axe."
Sure, but this was not such a time. A few stormtroopers, some stuff and a rather insignificant base in the Outer Rim sacrificed to ensure stability and order in swift, decisive action. A small price to pay.
Why, building another planetary shieldgate and detaching two other ISD's on guard duty (with more during the rebuild of the shield) would probably be enough cause to abandon the base anyway. This is much cleaner.
But now we have this problem where we go from Vader murdering everyone to Storm Troopers assaulting the same ship shortly after and Vader just stands around waiting when he could full well just go slaughter them himself substantially easier. Is he tired? I'm pretty sure if he was the first thing those rebels saw after just narrowly escaping him already they'd kill themselves.
He likes to make an entrance.
Well this video hits some of the points I mentioned before except for one.
That's quite possibly the most annoying and least funny YouTube video I've seen in a long, long time.
I managed to stand 2 minutes 2 seconds before giving up.
Well this video hits some of the points I mentioned before except for one.
That's quite possibly the most annoying and least funny YouTube video I've seen in a long, long time.
I managed to stand 2 minutes 2 seconds before giving up.
I feared as much. I don't do funny reviews, nitpicking videos or "honest whatevers".
It's all too easy to tear holes in what others have build. Nothing can withstand the scrutiny of a vlogger with a hungry for blood audience.
Well this video hits some of the points I mentioned before except for one.
That's quite possibly the most annoying and least funny YouTube video I've seen in a long, long time.
I managed to stand 2 minutes 2 seconds before giving up.
It's like they didn't even watch the movie, just some trailers and read some spoilers.
I mean, how could anyone not understand Saw's death?
The best part - they are huge fans of TFA. Now with this piece of information go watch the
hilarious
intro to this video, the one about familiar elements
Hopefully never. That's one bit of the movie that just felt completely extraneous and a bit off-tone.So when will we se the octopus as crew card?
Octopus (2 pt, 3 crew slots)
"You can ask your opponent anything you want. He has to say the truth or he loses the game."
(Start with the passwords of his bank accounts)
I liked it very much. Generally I like to see that not every alien has to be humanoidic
That part I liked.
The content of the scene less so.
It shows how paranoid and uncaring Saw has become. 10% seems like no price to pay for him.
It also covered the tracks of the rebels so that Tarkin could claim to the rest of the Empire that nothing was stolen and that the rebels were comprehensively defeated. in ANH only he and Vader make reference to the plans, it's entirely possible no one else knows they were even stolen.
"You sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you to conjure up the stolen data tapes..." - Admiral Motti.
Data tapes for what? If only we could examine the facility to see what files had been accessed or delivered...
And remember during Rogue One Tarkin informed Krennic that they would publicly deny existence of the Death Star and blame the destruction of Jedha on an earthquake. In a situation where you aren't 100% sure if your super-weapon is going to become public knowledge or not, covering your tracks seems like a good idea.
A politically self-serving move that demonstrates Tarkin's selfishness and short-sightedness. The Empire had covered up bigger things than that with far less effort, and really it would have been pretty trivial to obfuscate just what the Rebels stole or even to claim that the theft had been for nought.
Quite possibly. It was Tarkins arrogance that doomed him in Ep IV after all.
However, it's easy to armchair general his decision with 20/20 hindsight. From his point of view he didn't know how well the rebels on the beach were doing, if they'd succeeded or not already, what they'd taken and what the future of the battle station might be. The Empire is a vast, galaxy-spanning organisation so I think it's fair to decide, when put on the spot as he was, the destroy the facility. The cost of NOT destroying it could have been much higher than the cost of destroying it might have been. If the rebels had not yet succeeded, then he's averted the destruction of the Death Star in Ep IV and ensured the rule of the Emperor for the forsee-able future. If he doesn't destroy the facility and the rebels subsequently steal the plans, he stands to lose everything. And in a worst case scenario, he has to justify his decision to some kind of oversight committee. Seems like a no-brainer if you ask me. He may have reconsidered if he knew that the plans had already been stolen and transmitted, if Krennic wasn't on the surface, etc. But he was operating with an incomplete picture and made a perfectly reasonable decision, given the situation he was in.
Tarkin probably had no idea how far the rebels got. And the archive contains most probably quite A LOT OF data which better does not fall into rebel hands.
In order to ensure nothing gets out he wipes everything (EPT Ruthlessness?
). That that even takes out Krennic is just a bonus.
Once you get a big boulder rolling, it's pretty hard to stop it.
We've all seen those men pulling jumbojets way back when haven't we? And a tug is much much smaller than the boats it usually pushes. But once a big boat is pushed, it pretty much stays pushed if there's nothing strong enough to stop it.
So yeah, the Hammerhead pushing the ioned SD into another SD made good sense to me. What didn't make good sense was for both SD's to stay so close together they'd block a good deal of their own firing arcs. Split up, get a broadside of each of them on the MC75, or something. That shield platform was in no trouble.
I liked the idea of the ramming. Tactic born from pure desperation. And the corvette is constantly accelerating a disabled ISD for along time.
What actually bothered me was that the ISD were so passive even before ionisation. They should have been constantly firing all batteries and totally wreak havoc with the incoming wall of hostile rustbuckets.
Next time you watch it, pay attention to everyone who ISNT Krennic on Scarif.
"ARE YOU BLIND!? DEPLOY THE GARRISON!" and everyone starts moving. The base commander has no idea what to do and continually defers to his guest. And the garrison itself goes down like chumps until Krennic sends his personal bodyguards into action.
Krennic wasnt in orbit, so I have no problem with the Destroyer captians being even more paralized.
Stormtroopers blitzing a hallway would just have been a continuation of the same battle. Darth Vader is clearly *not* just a hallway of stormtroopers; he's far more than that, and he's terrifying, and now they've drawn him directly into their battle. Any scenario where he and rebel soldiers are together will lead to the horror we saw.I can't say the heroic sacrifice has ever done anything for me, in a movie where they have to die the deaths mean nothing. Vader tearing them apart was a great scene but it was nothing but fan service, you can't have a character like Vader do nothing nor can you him do everything. So instead you have him do something really cool but largely inconsequential, Storm Troopers blitzing the hallways would have had the exact same effect. As far as mourning red shirts, lets talk about the dozens of gunned down Storm Troopers or the half dozen who were killed execution style.
The best part of this movie was hands down how they made the Rebellion look. Cassian is a murderer, rebel high command is either extremely dickish or cowardly.
And I too thought it was awesome to see the grey morals of rebel spies! War is gritty. The opening scene of Cassian killing his informant was a revelation of how far the rebels at an individual level have had to go to achieve their means.
But now we have this problem where we go from Vader murdering everyone to Storm Troopers assaulting the same ship shortly after and Vader just stands around waiting when he could full well just go slaughter them himself substantially easier. Is he tired? I'm pretty sure if he was the first thing those rebels saw after just narrowly escaping him already they'd kill themselves.
People were complaining about vader's strut and punning... moments after he got out of a bacta tank. He calms it down for the space battle and boarding, is more reserved in New Hope, fights an arthritic old man, and misses a freighter diving out f the sky on him.
I think by the end of New Hope, he needed another bacta dip.
Well, it effectively was a bunch of librarians hanging out on a tropical beach...I mean, we're not talking about battle-hardened officers
Well this video hits some of the points I mentioned before except for one.
Although I wish the rebellion was a too much on the offensive to seem like it was in the dire state as it was in Episode 4. It was like the Rebellion could attack anywhere and everywhere no matter what. I was hoping for a Rebel Base evacuation before they reached Yavin 4.
Goes without saying, the video contains spoilers but will warn you before the spoiler section so you can stop the video.
I like the RLM guys, their prequels roasting will always be a favorite of mine, but they missed the mark with this one.
The reality is that they harped way too much on it not being new, but faulting Rogue One for doing Star Wars stuff is like faulting Inglorious Basterds for using the same old boring Nazis and the same old boring Tommy Guns to kill them.
The reality is that the average moviegoer isn't nearly as well-versed in Star Wars as the die hard fans are, and probably missed 75% of the callbacks in the film. Those were there for the fans, and a nod to the originals.
Rogue One accomplished two things: It gave the die hard Star Wars fans everything they wanted, and it gave regular moviegoers a film they could digest and enjoy, even without context. We had a guy with us (the second time I saw it) who had never seen Star Wars before, and he enjoyed it. I went with two crazy die hards who will even try to justify the prequels, and they loved it. And then there's me, and I'm a stickler for story and character motivations that make sense (which is why I thought TFA was bland and forgettable), and I still thought Rogue One was excellent.
At this point, I feel like Rogue One has been a target for people who want to be snobs about a franchise film, just for the sake of. Rogue One is a war film, in the manner of The Dirty Dozen or The Inglorious Basterds. Nobody remembers anything about most of the Dozen, nor do they remember anything about Donny, except that he spoke Italian "third best". Those aren't faults in those films. A movie like Rogue One needs a mission (check) and a reasonable reason for the characters to be on that mission (check). Is Rogue One perfect? Absolutely not. But it's way better than they're giving it credit for. Especially since they continue praise The Force Awakens, which has an invincible protagonist, her morally pure sidekick, and a curated plot that chaperones the audience through a film devoid of any real tension or conflict as Rey learns to be an flying ace, a starship engineer, an escape artist, an Instant Jedi, and masters lightsaber dueling over a trained opponent by having a vision and thinking "The Force!" That was better than Rogue One? Please.
Next time you watch it, pay attention to everyone who ISNT Krennic on Scarif.
"ARE YOU BLIND!? DEPLOY THE GARRISON!" and everyone starts moving. The base commander has no idea what to do and continually defers to his guest. And the garrison itself goes down like chumps until Krennic sends his personal bodyguards into action.
Krennic wasnt in orbit, so I have no problem with the Destroyer captians being even more paralized.
It's a backwater station, remember Tatooine? "If there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet that it's farthest from"? Scarif is right next door.
You don't send the best and brightest out there.
Rogue One is a war film, in the manner of The Dirty Dozen or The Inglorious Basterds.
You know that's exactly the feel I got from Rogue One but couldn't quite put into words. It was a war movie rather than a space opera.
It even starts very similar to Inglorious Basterds.
Evil officer with troops comes to intimidate a 'farmer' at his homestead while he hides people. People get found out and killed. One younger one escapes to mess things up later.
Especially since they continue praise The Force Awakens, which has an invincible protagonist, her morally pure sidekick, and a curated plot that chaperones the audience through a film devoid of any real tension or conflict as Rey learns to be an flying ace, a starship engineer, an escape artist, an Instant Jedi, and masters lightsaber dueling over a trained opponent by having a vision and thinking "The Force!" That was better than Rogue One? Please.
Mind you, I think it is (more than) implied that she is already a naturally good flier, tinkerer and rogueish character. She is far from a Jedi and (as we have seen knowledgeable people post here as a criticism) her saber form is terrible. It's only because Kylo Ren is injured and emotionally distraught that she stands a chance at the end.
Well this video hits some of the points I mentioned before except for one.
Although I wish the rebellion was a too much on the offensive to seem like it was in the dire state as it was in Episode 4. It was like the Rebellion could attack anywhere and everywhere no matter what. I was hoping for a Rebel Base evacuation before they reached Yavin 4.
Goes without saying, the video contains spoilers but will warn you before the spoiler section so you can stop the video.
Ooooh, Milwaukee name drop?
It even starts very similar to Inglorious Basterds.
Evil officer with troops comes to intimidate a 'farmer' at his homestead while he hides people. People get found out and killed. One younger one escapes to mess things up later.
Once upon a time in the Galaxy.