Most of the suggested fixes after the OP do not address its main issue.

These are (imho) its high cost and low survivability.

The thing cannot move, so it stands to reason that it needs to be tough.

It is gigantic, but pays the same for munitions as everyone else..

Pretty much. To fix the Punisher, you need to do one (preferably two) of three things:

Make it a LOT cheaper.

Make it a LOT tougher, so it survives long enough to contribute as much as it cost (or make it do damage when it dies).

Make it a LOT shootier, so it contributes as much as it cost before it inevitably, gloriously explodes.

By a lot cheaper I mean 32 or 33 points fully loaded, not 35+. By a lot tougher I mean a minimum of 3 rounds to kill it. By a lot shootier I mean 2 or more bombs or missiles/torps in the opening round.

My preferred choices are cheaper and shootier, but cheaper and tougher or tougher and shootier would also be good. Cheaper and tougher I think just gets dull.

Most of the suggested fixes after the OP do not address its main issue.

These are (imho) its high cost and low survivability.

The thing cannot move, so it stands to reason that it needs to be tough.

It is gigantic, but pays the same for munitions as everyone else..

Pretty much. To fix the Punisher, you need to do one (preferably two) of three things:

Make it a LOT cheaper.

Make it a LOT tougher, so it survives long enough to contribute as much as it cost (or make it do damage when it dies).

Make it a LOT shootier, so it contributes as much as it cost before it inevitably, gloriously explodes.

By a lot cheaper I mean 32 or 33 points fully loaded, not 35+. By a lot tougher I mean a minimum of 3 rounds to kill it. By a lot shootier I mean 2 or more bombs or missiles/torps in the opening round.

My preferred choices are cheaper and shootier, but cheaper and tougher or tougher and shootier would also be good. Cheaper and tougher I think just gets dull.

I've got some low level "tougher" cards that can stack with a really high powered "shootier" card in my CCL entry.

I concur with folks that say it should have a higher rate of fire. The model should make sense.

Title: Linked Ordnance Deployment System

2 pts

After making an attack with a mis or torp, you may make a second mis or torp attack against the same target. For this second attack, ignore Attack: Focus or Attack: Target Lock requirements.

If this model does not make mis or torp attacks, it may deploy two bombs this turn.

I concur with folks that say it should have a higher rate of fire. The model should make sense.

Title: Linked Ordnance Deployment System

2 pts

After making an attack with a mis or torp, you may make a second mis or torp attack against the same target. For this second attack, ignore Attack: Focus or Attack: Target Lock requirements.

If this model does not make mis or torp attacks, it may deploy two bombs this turn.

The latter part is non-functional because you don't know whether you'll make a missile or torp attack at the point you're deploying your bombs.

I concur with folks that say it should have a higher rate of fire. The model should make sense.

Title: Linked Ordnance Deployment System

2 pts

After making an attack with a mis or torp, you may make a second mis or torp attack against the same target. For this second attack, ignore Attack: Focus or Attack: Target Lock requirements.

If this model does not make mis or torp attacks, it may deploy two bombs this turn.

Posted this earlier.

I concur with folks that say it should have a higher rate of fire. The model should make sense.

Title: Linked Ordnance Deployment System

2 pts

After making an attack with a mis or torp, you may make a second mis or torp attack against the same target. For this second attack, ignore Attack: Focus or Attack: Target Lock requirements.

If this model does not make mis or torp attacks, it may deploy two bombs this turn.

Posted this earlier.

As nice as firing two torps/missiles in a turn would be what is most troubling here is that it doubles your non-bomb ordnance at no cost. You can say the Punisher costs too much for what it does but getting to double tap with any missile could make it worse than the u-boat was.

I concur with folks that say it should have a higher rate of fire. The model should make sense.

Title: Linked Ordnance Arsenal Deployment System, or LOADS

2 pts

After making an attack with a mis or torp, you may make a second mis or torp attack against the same target. For this second attack, ignore Attack: Focus or Attack: Target Lock requirements.

If this model does not make mis or torp attacks, it may deploy two bombs this turn.

There, fixed that name for you.

A title granting the text of munitions failsafe and weapon engineer. It now has the TL it needs, can use munitions at will and can take the light weight frame mod to increase survivability.

If that still doesn't fix it, and it probably will, have the title add a crew slot or EPT.

OP: It's interesting, but not sure why it would cost less. I would go with this idea, which allows it to carry more for the same cost as others.

I just copy and paste the fix from my signature ... wait a minute ...

Here it is:

How to fix TIE Punishers: Built-in Extra Munitions infinite ammo

OP: It's interesting, but not sure why it would cost less. I would go with this idea, which allows it to carry more for the same cost as others.

Punishers should have a title as follows:

Title: Heavy Bomber

Tie Punisher Only

0 Pts

When the Extra munitions upgrade card is placed on this ship it adds two Extra Munitions tokens. In addition count this ship as large for any effects which hit it. (Tractor Beams, Ions, Weapons, etc)

Now it follows the old Lore and makes the ship much more playable.

This fits the fluff of this ship, in that in the lore it was not able to be ion'ed or tractor beamed and often took ion hits without being affected(Due to insulated hull). Now it carries one more of each ordnance since it does have 4 tubes. You have a ship which is very different than a normal bomber and makes it unique too.

Trouble with this is that it doesn't get any cheaper and it doesn't get any shootier and it doesn't get significantly tougher.

So it basically doesn't fix anything.

OP: It's interesting, but not sure why it would cost less. I would go with this idea, which allows it to carry more for the same cost as others.

Punishers should have a title as follows:

Title: Heavy Bomber

Tie Punisher Only

0 Pts

When the Extra munitions upgrade card is placed on this ship it adds two Extra Munitions tokens. In addition count this ship as large for any effects which hit it. (Tractor Beams, Ions, Weapons, etc)

Now it follows the old Lore and makes the ship much more playable.

This fits the fluff of this ship, in that in the lore it was not able to be ion'ed or tractor beamed and often took ion hits without being affected(Due to insulated hull). Now it carries one more of each ordnance since it does have 4 tubes. You have a ship which is very different than a normal bomber and makes it unique too.

Trouble with this is that it doesn't get any cheaper and it doesn't get any shootier and it doesn't get significantly tougher.

So it basically doesn't fix anything.

Not sure I understand, your point. You effectively get more ordnance for way cheaper depending on what you take. Also not being tractors or affected by ions is huge. Obviously you must not play people that use them on your punishers, cause I do. Punisher is not a terrible ship, but why take it over the basic tie bomber? There really is no reason except for shields and boost. Giving it extra bombs (When I fly them I'm always saying the quote from Independence day. "Doesn't anyone have any bombs or missiles left' ) as I'm always out of munitions quickly and have none left. Now if you want it to be a bomber, it will have 3 bombs or 6 if if you take two extra munitions, and it cannot be moved or ioned. This is huge, it will get to where it wants to go and drop it's payload, AKA Bomber. Plus with Sensor Jammer and the new Lightweight frame, it will be much better. It needs more bombs and missiles, just look at the thing. That's what it does, that's all it does.

Maybe you could make the title -2 pts or -1 pts, but it makes the punisher fit the fluff.

OP: It's interesting, but not sure why it would cost less. I would go with this idea, which allows it to carry more for the same cost as others.

Punishers should have a title as follows:

Title: Heavy Bomber

Tie Punisher Only

0 Pts

When the Extra munitions upgrade card is placed on this ship it adds two Extra Munitions tokens. In addition count this ship as large for any effects which hit it. (Tractor Beams, Ions, Weapons, etc)

Now it follows the old Lore and makes the ship much more playable.

This fits the fluff of this ship, in that in the lore it was not able to be ion'ed or tractor beamed and often took ion hits without being affected(Due to insulated hull). Now it carries one more of each ordnance since it does have 4 tubes. You have a ship which is very different than a normal bomber and makes it unique too.

Trouble with this is that it doesn't get any cheaper and it doesn't get any shootier and it doesn't get significantly tougher.

So it basically doesn't fix anything.

Not sure I understand, your point. You effectively get more ordnance for way cheaper depending on what you take. Also not being tractors or affected by ions is huge. Obviously you must not play people that use them on your punishers, cause I do. Punisher is not a terrible ship, but why take it over the basic tie bomber? There really is no reason except for shields and boost. Giving it extra bombs (When I fly them I'm always saying the quote from Independence day. "Doesn't anyone have any bombs or missiles left' ) as I'm always out of munitions quickly and have none left. Now if you want it to be a bomber, it will have 3 bombs or 6 if if you take two extra munitions, and it cannot be moved or ioned. This is huge, it will get to where it wants to go and drop it's payload, AKA Bomber. Plus with Sensor Jammer and the new Lightweight frame, it will be much better. It needs more bombs and missiles, just look at the thing. That's what it does, that's all it does.

Maybe you could make the title -2 pts or -1 pts, but it makes the punisher fit the fluff.

The biggest trouble the Punisher currently has is that it already can't fire dry before dying. I usually run 1 torp or long range missile, 1 cluster missile, and EM, and it usually gets killed before firing its second shot, and almost never takes its third. So giving it a bunch more shots for the same cost... doesn't change that. Sure, it makes it cheaper effectively - because yeah, you get a bunch more shots. But when you still die having fired only two of them...

So what?

The tractors and ions is good, sure, and that's why I said it doesn't make it significantly tough, not it doesn't make it any tougher at all. Not taking those effects as easily is nice, but in the end, those effects are comparatively rare, and this doesn't do *anything at all* against straight damage, which makes up the vast majority of the meta.

How are you managing to fire a punisher dry without it dying?

OP: It's interesting, but not sure why it would cost less. I would go with this idea, which allows it to carry more for the same cost as others.

Punishers should have a title as follows:

Title: Heavy Bomber

Tie Punisher Only

0 Pts

When the Extra munitions upgrade card is placed on this ship it adds two Extra Munitions tokens. In addition count this ship as large for any effects which hit it. (Tractor Beams, Ions, Weapons, etc)

Now it follows the old Lore and makes the ship much more playable.

This fits the fluff of this ship, in that in the lore it was not able to be ion'ed or tractor beamed and often took ion hits without being affected(Due to insulated hull). Now it carries one more of each ordnance since it does have 4 tubes. You have a ship which is very different than a normal bomber and makes it unique too.

Trouble with this is that it doesn't get any cheaper and it doesn't get any shootier and it doesn't get significantly tougher.

So it basically doesn't fix anything.

Not sure I understand, your point. You effectively get more ordnance for way cheaper depending on what you take. Also not being tractors or affected by ions is huge. Obviously you must not play people that use them on your punishers, cause I do. Punisher is not a terrible ship, but why take it over the basic tie bomber? There really is no reason except for shields and boost. Giving it extra bombs (When I fly them I'm always saying the quote from Independence day. "Doesn't anyone have any bombs or missiles left' ) as I'm always out of munitions quickly and have none left. Now if you want it to be a bomber, it will have 3 bombs or 6 if if you take two extra munitions, and it cannot be moved or ioned. This is huge, it will get to where it wants to go and drop it's payload, AKA Bomber. Plus with Sensor Jammer and the new Lightweight frame, it will be much better. It needs more bombs and missiles, just look at the thing. That's what it does, that's all it does.

Maybe you could make the title -2 pts or -1 pts, but it makes the punisher fit the fluff.

The biggest trouble the Punisher currently has is that it already can't fire dry before dying. I usually run 1 torp or long range missile, 1 cluster missile, and EM, and it usually gets killed before firing its second shot, and almost never takes its third. So giving it a bunch more shots for the same cost... doesn't change that. Sure, it makes it cheaper effectively - because yeah, you get a bunch more shots. But when you still die having fired only two of them...

So what?

The tractors and ions is good, sure, and that's why I said it doesn't make it significantly tough, not it doesn't make it any tougher at all. Not taking those effects as easily is nice, but in the end, those effects are comparatively rare, and this doesn't do *anything at all* against straight damage, which makes up the vast majority of the meta.

How are you managing to fire a punisher dry without it dying?

I agree. The Punisher doesn't get to punish anything, unless it is ignored, which it never is.

It either needs to be cheaper but carry enough munitions to be more than a bomber. I still think the corrective action is already designed in a way in the K-Wing. The mechanic it needs would make it as survivable as the K-Wing. I know the Imps don't get turrets (which help massively), so we'll need to think in current design-space. The only option I see other than buffing the **** out of the hull/shielding is a shield upgrade that allow it to regenerate shields every round regardless of action or stress status. Or, give it a Countdown like damage mitigating ability. I'm kinda stuck. Nothing seems to work out in my mind.

Maybe they misnamed the ship.

Maybe it should have been called the Apologizer.

The K wing gets its survivability from regen, SLAM, and TLTs. None of which are likely to be options for the punisher.

A damage mitigation ability would be cool, which is why a lot of people are suggesting something based on Reinforce.

To be combined with a Shooty title, and your choice of Guidance Chips, Long Range Sensors, Munition failsafe, ect.

Can also be equipped on the G1A, and the ARC, Kwing and Ywing.

If it needs a buff, either increase the bonus hull to 2 or drop the point cost to 2.

The solution is not to make a overpriced ship more expensive.
Adding yet more pts to a ship that already needs a heavy investing in Ordnance upgrades wont help.

The solution is not to make a overpriced ship more expensive.

Adding yet more pts to a ship that already needs a heavy investing in Ordnance upgrades wont help.

How low would you be willing to take something can can go on a Bwing or ARC, or TLT Y?

I'm working on a Punisher Aces pack for the CCL.

My current take on a Punisher fix is a title that allows a punisher to acquire a TL at the start of the combat phase on a target at R3 and in-arc, and another mod or title that lets them drop two bombs in the same turn.

Punisher-Title-0 pts (Yes the name needs work)

Any Torpedo, Missile or Bomb upgrade costs 2 less pts pr. upgrade.

Too much?

I don't think the cost of ordnance is the main problem with the punisher, but this would help

Lol I was thinking of doing a punisher aces pack and 2 bombs per turn was the same thought I was having.

I was planning to have it so that you can drop 1 before you move and 1 after you move, then the ship could boost to get clear. That I would have made a title called "Bomber Squadron" or something.

Was also considering an upgrade that takes both missile slots "High yield bombs" these would work on bombs only not mines and add 1 Crit to any ship on the token when it explodes or 1 damage for any ship in the blast radius.

A similar upgrade for mines "Magnetized Mines" For each cluster mines token and proximity mine token that this ship drops, the ship that triggers the mine will roll 1 extra attack die.

Was also looking at an modification that costs 2 points for Tie bombers and Punishers only. "Elite Force" "You may equip 2 further modifications providing they cost 3 points or less each."

Did think about a card for firing 2 missiles per turn but felt the effect would be too great even if it was pricey. I do like the idea someone mentioned though about Punishers not needing TL's or focus to fire the ordinance due to an advanced system - this could be an "Ordinance carrier" title.

2 points for a 33% increase in survivability, and you can still equip an offensive title and Guidance chips.

The solution is not to make a overpriced ship more expensive.

Adding yet more pts to a ship that already needs a heavy investing in Ordnance upgrades wont help.

How low would you be willing to take something can can go on a Bwing or ARC, or TLT Y?

I would not make something that could go on a B-Wing, Y-wing or or ARC, when the goal is to help the Punisher. I would make something tailored towards that ship.

Besides the B-Wing is a ship that does not need help. It was a stable and very effective ship for a long time and still sees play at competetive level.

The solution is not to make a overpriced ship more expensive.

Adding yet more pts to a ship that already needs a heavy investing in Ordnance upgrades wont help.

How low would you be willing to take something can can go on a Bwing or ARC, or TLT Y?

I would not make something that could go on a B-Wing, Y-wing or or ARC, when the goal is to help the Punisher. I would make something tailored towards that ship.

Besides the B-Wing is a ship that does not need help. It was a stable and very effective ship for a long time and still sees play at competetive level.

Because Tie Mk 2 was totally not a Defender buff. Because Integrated Astro wasnt a retroactive buff for the T65. Because Jyn Ersu wasnt meant to bring back Kanan Jarrus as a ghost pilot.

The best fixes are the ones that fix multiple ships at once. Or at least help, so that the actual fix doesnt need to be quite as powerful. Note that this multi ship card is not the entirety of my Punisher fix, only the defensive portion, something ALL the agility 1 ships have an issue with.

As for the Bwing not needing it, the Bwing hasnt had tournament visibility since Wave 8 dropped, and we're about to get wave 10. And even when it does show, it's only BSP- the aces need love.

TIE Punisher only

TITLE

Advanced Weapons Platform

2 Points

When attacking with a secondary weapon, add 1 hit to your attack roll. LIMIT: once per round.