Sure, when everything lines up perfectly the card can be an powerhouse and be wicked, no doubt. The same thing can basically be said about every card though.

Really? What other card can even potentially generate 8 resources on the first turn at zero cost? What sort of wicked powerhouse use can you get out of Promotion?

Really indeed. Is Promotion the best example of a powerhouse card that you can think of, or are you just being disingenuous? Because there are plenty of ways to have a good turn that don't involve Sith Holocron. Personally, I'd rather be doing 8 damage on turn one instead of saving myself 8 resources.

Really tried it? Running a Blue Villain just so you can bring Sith Holocron and then using it to give force powers to yellow or red characters?

You don't run it JUST to give Blue cards to your yellow characters. You run it for the insane (and repeatable) resource efficiency... But I think you're dramatically underestimating the utility here. If you're running a mixed deck, what happens to your Force Choke when your blue character is defeated? Dead card... unless you have a holocron. That is, again, a bonus. You don't say "I think it would be really cool for this Tusken Raider to be able to Mind Probe, so that's my goal!" You say "With decent rolls I can have a Force Choke and Mind Probe out by the end of the first turn".

I'm also not sure why you think it's better to put blue cards on blue characters, and yellow cards on yellow characters. Other than a nice bit of thematic consistency, the color is utterly irrelevant to the tactical distribution. Force Throw and Mind Probe on a yellow character will serve just as well as either on a blue. Better, even, as in this particular case the one damage side is ranged so it will synergize better with the more common ranged damage in red/yellow. Force Choke and Immobilize don't really care where they are.

Really indeed. Is Promotion the best example of a powerhouse card that you can think of, or are you just being disingenuous? Because there are plenty of ways to have a good turn that don't involve Sith Holocron. Personally, I'd rather be doing 8 damage on turn one instead of saving myself 8 resources.

Well, he did actually say EVERY card. I figured he'd appreciate the challenge of it.

But open it up, I'd love to hear a comparison of an upgrade that can do the same thing without help (i.e. for 2 resources), even under optimal conditions. You say you'd rather have 8 damage, I wouldn't even disagree, but that's fiction - no upgrade is going to give you that at even 2 cost, much less zero. If you REALLY want to idealize it you could probably consider the grenades against a 4 character build, and sure, that one turn will give you the 8 damage. What about next turn?

Whatever that upgrade is, the Holocron can match it with two. You aren't comparing the Holocron to any other upgrade, you're comparing the Holocron AND the Force Throw AND the Mind Probe that it can bring in. So - first turn, two resources, what upgrade will compare? You're going to get one two-cost die into play, the Holocron is going to put two 3-4 cost dice into play for the same two resources.

Yes, that's assuming it hits the special, but it's not farfetched at all.

You're right, you're comparing 3 specific cards that you need to have in your opening hand, as well as rolling consecutive special faces, in order to save yourself those 8 resources with... well, any other combination of cards or interactions in the entire game. Those of us in the Magic community refer to those kinds of odds as "Magical Christmas Land," because it's a gift you might see once a year. Talk about fiction, right? Holocron is powerful, but whether it ends up dominating the game is ultimately a meta call, and we're nowhere close to having enough data to analyze just yet.

Incidentally, eJango with a Jetpack does 7 damage for only 2 resources and just one card, and that's just off the top of my head. Like we said, when you have a good turn you have a good turn.

Can someone explain how it gets 8 resources in one turn to me?

Buhallin is banking on having two Mind Probes in his opening hand as well as the holocron, and then rolling consecutive special faces to cheat them both into play rather than pay their combined cost of 8 resources.

Incidentally, eJango with a Jetpack does 7 damage for only 2 resources and just one card, and that's just off the top of my head. Like we said, when you have a good turn you have a good turn.

Jetpack does 3 damage. Jango does the other 4. If you're going to play it like that game, my bonus resources come with 6 damage from Vader plus whatever we get off of the two upgrades. But Vader's more points, of course, so why not leave them out of it? Let's keep it to just the upgrades. Jetpack, again, gets 3 damage for two resources. Can we match that, even with poor cards? I'm going to skip all the permutations, but I'd say that any two of the upgrades which the Holocron can bring in will beat it.

(Edit: And just for completeness, Jango's 7 damage opportunity has around a 0.46% chance of going off, while the double Holocron in a turn is 11%, so it's just shy of 25 times more likely. A good turn may be a good turn, but not all good turns are equally likely).

Is the theoretical max of a pair of Mind Probes a stretch? Certainly. 8 is an extreme. But 4-5 is not, and free Force Choke and Immobilize will ramp things up just as fast. Many decks run about half upgrades and half events, so 2 of your other 4 cards being upgrades is not extreme, it's flat average. Yes, you have to roll the special, but you're 1 in 3 on that, and around 10 percent of doing it twice in a turn without any other help. You seem perfectly happy banking on Jetpack's 17% for your numbers, 10% is pretty close.

Even if you don't get it to go off twice in a turn, that one activation will be a 1 in 3 chance for, at the very least, an X-cost upgrade into your pool for one resource. That means higher cost upgrades that will do more. It means high-cost upgrades without having to roll resources, or give up dice that could be damage. It means getting it into your pool this turn, rather than next.

This is not some fantastical 4-card combo. It's a single upgrade that interacts with literally half your deck, and it can keep doing it turn after turn.

and here i am looking at hyperspace jump as the best card, opponent rolled well? just end the action phase......and if your stategy revolved around the battlefield change that too, can loop it with the falcon aswell. as for holocrons, meh only blue card worth using it on is mind probe, everything else is already affordable, it not like you are trying to drop an ATST or something

meh only blue card worth using it on is mind probe, everything else is already affordable, it not like you are trying to drop an ATST or something

It's not a question of whether something is affordable or not. The point is that since the Holocron in free, you can Holocron in stuff and then still play the same stuff and do the same stuff you'd normally play and do if you never had the Holocron. Even if you only Holocron in an Immobilize only once in a game, you're still 2 resources ahead, which is a huge tempo advantage - like getting twice the resources in a turn. And most probably you'll Holocron in a lot more.

Is the card busted and OP? I don't think so, not as of yet at least. But it is certainly the most standout card in the set. It has more impact on a game than many legendaries.

Sure, when everything lines up perfectly the card can be an powerhouse and be wicked, no doubt. The same thing can basically be said about every card though.

Really? What other card can even potentially generate 8 resources on the first turn at zero cost? What sort of wicked powerhouse use can you get out of Promotion?

Really indeed. Is Promotion the best example of a powerhouse card that you can think of, or are you just being disingenuous? Because there are plenty of ways to have a good turn that don't involve Sith Holocron. Personally, I'd rather be doing 8 damage on turn one instead of saving myself 8 resources.

But you can do both!! Thats what makes it dangerous. Its free. Its a free roll. It can focus, resource, or special. Now you have to choose to remove the special or 3 dmg? Its not that you dont have that choice with other things, but its free!! No cost associated to it other than one action to play it.

It also adds to other cards that stack blue upgrades. Like The Powet of the Force where you can turn any 1 faced die into a 6. Ive turned a 1 focus into 4 focus (2 holocrons), turned all 4 vaders die into 12 dmg. Enjoy!

~D

So, I put together an all blue Vader/eKylo deck with pretty much all the blue abilities, two Sith Holocrons and all the other cards you'd expect to see in a deck like this.

I played three games in a row against a generic aggro deck.

Game #1 - My opening hand was 2x Sith Holocrons, 2x Mind Prodes and an Immobilize. Round one went something like this...

• Play Sith Holocron on Vader (1 SH left in hand)
• Activate Vader - get a special on Sith Holocron
• Swap Sith Holocron for Mind Prode, paying the 1 resource to roll the die (2 SH in hand)
• Play Sith Holocron on eKylo (1 SH in hand)
• Play Sith Holocron on eKylo (0 SH in hand)
• Activate eKylo - get specials on both Sith Holocrons
• Swap Sith Holocron for Mind Prode, paying the 1 resource to roll the die (1 SH in hand)
• Swap Sith Holocron for Immobilize, out of resouces, so no rolling the die (2 SH in hand)
• Play Sith Holocron on Vader (1 SH in hand)
• Play Sith Holocron on Vader (0 SH in hand)
• Resolve all my dice, can't remember what they all did.

My opponent was like... well... that was fun. I slaughtered him by round three. That's what a more or less perfect initial hand followed by a perfect dice roll looks like. Alas, this was not to last...

Game #2 - I pulled a Sith Holocron in round 2 and was forced by my opponent to discard it using Scout. Boo. Never saw the other one. I ended up losing the game because I couldn't afford all the cool stuff in my deck.

Game #3 - Never pulled a Sith Holocron. After losing, I looked and they were both randomly in the bottom quarter of my deck. Again, it's hard to play 3 and 4 resource cards when you have very little resource generation. Villainous Force Users are bad at resource generation.

TAKEAWAY - Sith Holocron is devastating in ideal conditions. Realistically though, you should be putting it in a deck that doesn't REALLY need it. If you build your deck around using it to get expensive cards into play, you'll be playing at a huge disadvantage if you don't see the cards you need. Without proper resource generation, that Mind Probe is going to take 2 rounds to play... 3 or 4 if your opponent can disrupt you. During those rounds, you're not doing anything else. Sith Holocron is definitely amazing, but it's nowhere near an auto-win card.

I think it should have at least a 1 resource cost to play... or the character should take 1-2 unblockable damage upon use. Something like that. As it stands, other than losing a couple of activations as you set up the swap, there isn't much of a downside.

I think this card is fine...right now. It might become busted if we get some more really expensive blue abilities.

So, I put together an all blue Vader/eKylo deck with pretty much all the blue abilities, two Sith Holocrons and all the other cards you'd expect to see in a deck like this.

I played three games in a row against a generic aggro deck.

Game #1 - My opening hand was 2x Sith Holocrons, 2x Mind Prodes and an Immobilize. Round one went something like this...

• Play Sith Holocron on Vader (1 SH left in hand)
• Activate Vader - get a special on Sith Holocron
• Swap Sith Holocron for Mind Prode, paying the 1 resource to roll the die (2 SH in hand)
• Play Sith Holocron on eKylo (1 SH in hand)
• Play Sith Holocron on eKylo (0 SH in hand)
• Activate eKylo - get specials on both Sith Holocrons
• Swap Sith Holocron for Mind Prode, paying the 1 resource to roll the die (1 SH in hand)
• Swap Sith Holocron for Immobilize, out of resouces, so no rolling the die (2 SH in hand)
• Play Sith Holocron on Vader (1 SH in hand)
• Play Sith Holocron on Vader (0 SH in hand)
• Resolve all my dice, can't remember what they all did.

My opponent was like... well... that was fun. I slaughtered him by round three. That's what a more or less perfect initial hand followed by a perfect dice roll looks like. Alas, this was not to last...

Game #2 - I pulled a Sith Holocron in round 2 and was forced by my opponent to discard it using Scout. Boo. Never saw the other one. I ended up losing the game because I couldn't afford all the cool stuff in my deck.

Game #3 - Never pulled a Sith Holocron. After losing, I looked and they were both randomly in the bottom quarter of my deck. Again, it's hard to play 3 and 4 resource cards when you have very little resource generation. Villainous Force Users are bad at resource generation.

TAKEAWAY - Sith Holocron is devastating in ideal conditions. Realistically though, you should be putting it in a deck that doesn't REALLY need it. If you build your deck around using it to get expensive cards into play, you'll be playing at a huge disadvantage if you don't see the cards you need. Without proper resource generation, that Mind Probe is going to take 2 rounds to play... 3 or 4 if your opponent can disrupt you. During those rounds, you're not doing anything else. Sith Holocron is definitely amazing, but it's nowhere near an auto-win card.

I think it should have at least a 1 resource cost to play... or the character should take 1-2 unblockable damage upon use. Something like that. As it stands, other than losing a couple of activations as you set up the swap, there isn't much of a downside.

What are your upgrades?

~D

Am I the only one wondering how good the Jedi Holocron is going to be?

(I suppose it will be more expensive and generally revolve around slower play with an objectively better payout)

If you build your deck around using it to get expensive cards into play, you'll be playing at a huge disadvantage if you don't see the cards you need.

You don't build a deck around getting the stuff into play via Holocron. You don't have to. With the possible exception of Mind Probe, the cards you include and hope to Holocron are all the same cards you'd put in anyway - Force Throw, etc. You have the same stuff, but it moves a 3-resource from "I have to save, or hope to roll some resources and lose it this turn" to "1 resource, still have one to play events, and the die will be there even after I activate my characters".

I am with the doubters of Holocron. Sure, it CAN be really strong IF:

- You have it opening draw

- You get a blue ability card with it

- You roll the special on the holocron

- Your opponent can't/doesn't stop you

Combine that with the fact that there are a grand total of 5 Ability upgrades (okay 6, but if you count Hidden is Shadow I question your argument entirely) that you can attach and really only 1 that is wtf powerful if it appears that early, makes me think it's pretty flimsy right now. Will definitely become more and more imposing as Blue Villians get more powerful/expensive ability upgrades.

The idea that you are going to get it off 2x a turn is absurd. Sure, it may happen and be a fun anecdotal scenario, but the reality is that just rolling the special twice in one turn is barely over 10% and I haven't even thrown in any other factors. If it happens, great, but its really an anomaly unless you are cheating or insanely lucky.

I would prefer to have a deck that is consistent and doesn't rely on getting Mind Probe out asap.

But then again, I think Vader on the whole is HIGHLY overrated right now. I haven't lost to Vader since Launch weekend, there are much nastier decks out there in my opinion. eVader being capped at 21 health is a huge issue for a guy so susceptible to all the many dice removal mechanics out there, and Regular Vader + twerps is a pretty pillow-fisted list relatively speaking.

Holocron is fine for now. If they get more powerful Ability upgrades, then maybe I could see a problem, but I would expect all colors to also increase in power level, so even that is questionable.

Incidentally, eJango with a Jetpack does 7 damage for only 2 resources and just one card, and that's just off the top of my head. Like we said, when you have a good turn you have a good turn.

Jetpack does 3 damage. Jango does the other 4. If you're going to play it like that game, my bonus resources come with 6 damage from Vader plus whatever we get off of the two upgrades. But Vader's more points, of course, so why not leave them out of it? Let's keep it to just the upgrades. Jetpack, again, gets 3 damage for two resources. Can we match that, even with poor cards? I'm going to skip all the permutations, but I'd say that any two of the upgrades which the Holocron can bring in will beat it.

(Edit: And just for completeness, Jango's 7 damage opportunity has around a 0.46% chance of going off, while the double Holocron in a turn is 11%, so it's just shy of 25 times more likely. A good turn may be a good turn, but not all good turns are equally likely).

Is the theoretical max of a pair of Mind Probes a stretch? Certainly. 8 is an extreme. But 4-5 is not, and free Force Choke and Immobilize will ramp things up just as fast. Many decks run about half upgrades and half events, so 2 of your other 4 cards being upgrades is not extreme, it's flat average. Yes, you have to roll the special, but you're 1 in 3 on that, and around 10 percent of doing it twice in a turn without any other help. You seem perfectly happy banking on Jetpack's 17% for your numbers, 10% is pretty close.

Even if you don't get it to go off twice in a turn, that one activation will be a 1 in 3 chance for, at the very least, an X-cost upgrade into your pool for one resource. That means higher cost upgrades that will do more. It means high-cost upgrades without having to roll resources, or give up dice that could be damage. It means getting it into your pool this turn, rather than next.

This is not some fantastical 4-card combo. It's a single upgrade that interacts with literally half your deck, and it can keep doing it turn after turn.

Incidentally, eJango with a Jetpack does 7 damage for only 2 resources and just one card, and that's just off the top of my head. Like we said, when you have a good turn you have a good turn.

Jetpack does 3 damage. Jango does the other 4. If you're going to play it like that game, my bonus resources come with 6 damage from Vader plus whatever we get off of the two upgrades. But Vader's more points, of course, so why not leave them out of it? Let's keep it to just the upgrades. Jetpack, again, gets 3 damage for two resources. Can we match that, even with poor cards? I'm going to skip all the permutations, but I'd say that any two of the upgrades which the Holocron can bring in will beat it.

(Edit: And just for completeness, Jango's 7 damage opportunity has around a 0.46% chance of going off, while the double Holocron in a turn is 11%, so it's just shy of 25 times more likely. A good turn may be a good turn, but not all good turns are equally likely).

Is the theoretical max of a pair of Mind Probes a stretch? Certainly. 8 is an extreme. But 4-5 is not, and free Force Choke and Immobilize will ramp things up just as fast. Many decks run about half upgrades and half events, so 2 of your other 4 cards being upgrades is not extreme, it's flat average. Yes, you have to roll the special, but you're 1 in 3 on that, and around 10 percent of doing it twice in a turn without any other help. You seem perfectly happy banking on Jetpack's 17% for your numbers, 10% is pretty close.

Even if you don't get it to go off twice in a turn, that one activation will be a 1 in 3 chance for, at the very least, an X-cost upgrade into your pool for one resource. That means higher cost upgrades that will do more. It means high-cost upgrades without having to roll resources, or give up dice that could be damage. It means getting it into your pool this turn, rather than next.

This is not some fantastical 4-card combo. It's a single upgrade that interacts with literally half your deck, and it can keep doing it turn after turn.

Yesterday I played 8 games with or against a deck with 2 Holocron and 2 Mind Probes and in those games only once did I or my opponent (it was me) get both a Holocron and a MP in our starting hand after mulligan. The Holocron didn't even show up in the starting hands 4 times and one time my opponent had the Holocron but didn't see a blue ability until turn 3. I realize this is anecdotal and only a sample size of 8, but it is still a better representation of what is likely to happen than hypothetical perfect draws and rolls vs a goldfish.

Sure, when everything lines up perfectly the card can be an powerhouse and be wicked, no doubt. The same thing can basically be said about every card though.

Really? What other card can even potentially generate 8 resources on the first turn at zero cost? What sort of wicked powerhouse use can you get out of Promotion?

Generating resources isn't really a good metric for how good a combo is.

With the ideal Sith Holocron combo I can *potentially* generate 11 damage (eVader rolling double 3 melee, special on Sith Holocron, Mind Probe in hand, rolls special, opponent has played zero cards) in an *EXTREME* outlier scenario largely dependent on my opponent not blocking my melee damage before I can spend it.

Similarly, if I get an ideal roll off the best first play in my Jango/Bala deck (Which involves only drawing ONE card, Holdout Blaster, rather than two), I can potentially land 10 damage in HALF the actions that doesn't depend on my opponent's hand size and leaving precisely *ONE* chance for my opponent to counter.

Color me unimpressed, and I play both. I attempt both of these combos when possible, the latter happens far more often than the former.

You listed the odds of rolling 7 dice with Jango and Jetpack vs rolling a special twice on Holocron. What are the odds of drawing Jetpack on the first turn and rolling 7 damage vs the odds of drawing Holocron, 2 Mind Probes, rolling specials on the Holocron twice, rolling a special on each Mind Probe, and finally resolving the specials on both MP while your opponent has 4 cards in their hand so you can do 8 damage? I don't have the math skills to figure out what the numbers actually are, but I don't need them to know it's incredibly unlikely to happen.

I have no idea what you're going on about here. I never suggested both Mind Probes would hit specials. I never even suggested what the added upgrades would do at all - that's pure gravy. The referred 8 was the resource efficiency, which WW compared to the damage from a Jetpack. I've said repeatedly that the 8 is effectively a theoretical maximum, but you don't need two Mind Probes for this to be far and away the most powerful card in the game.

Even in a middling situation - say I get it off once, and can't pay for it - say I pay for a 2-cost, and Holocron in another two cost. You play a two cost. We're dead even on the first turn (one paid-and-played 2-cost) but I'm +2 worth of upgrades starting round two.

And really, the strongest counterargument to it is "You might not draw it"? Uhm... sure. I guess every card sucks then, because you might not draw it.

You listed the odds of rolling 7 dice with Jango and Jetpack vs rolling a special twice on Holocron. What are the odds of drawing Jetpack on the first turn and rolling 7 damage vs the odds of drawing Holocron, 2 Mind Probes, rolling specials on the Holocron twice, rolling a special on each Mind Probe, and finally resolving the specials on both MP while your opponent has 4 cards in their hand so you can do 8 damage? I don't have the math skills to figure out what the numbers actually are, but I don't need them to know it's incredibly unlikely to happen.

I have no idea what you're going on about here. I never suggested both Mind Probes would hit specials. I never even suggested what the added upgrades would do at all - that's pure gravy. The referred 8 was the resource efficiency, which WW compared to the damage from a Jetpack. I've said repeatedly that the 8 is effectively a theoretical maximum, but you don't need two Mind Probes for this to be far and away the most powerful card in the game.

Even in a middling situation - say I get it off once, and can't pay for it - say I pay for a 2-cost, and Holocron in another two cost. You play a two cost. We're dead even on the first turn (one paid-and-played 2-cost) but I'm +2 worth of upgrades starting round two.

And really, the strongest counterargument to it is "You might not draw it"? Uhm... sure. I guess every card sucks then, because you might not draw it.

Ok resources then, doesn't matter. And yes, you were concocting perfect storm scenarios to make your point. My point isn't you might not draw any given card but that you are unlikely to put all the pieces of your perfect storm combo together on the first turn and that you are playing a living human being who has their own agenda and might have something to disrupt your plans, not a goldfish.

Similarly, if I get an ideal roll off the best first play in my Jango/Bala deck (Which involves only drawing ONE card, Holdout Blaster, rather than two), I can potentially land 10 damage in HALF the actions that doesn't depend on my opponent's hand size and leaving precisely *ONE* chance for my opponent to counter.

Your "ideal roll" here requires one specific facing on each of those five dice. That's a 0.0024% chance of happening.

But sure, tell me more about how unlikely it is to get one of the ten usable upgrades with a Holocron in my opening hand.

Similarly, if I get an ideal roll off the best first play in my Jango/Bala deck (Which involves only drawing ONE card, Holdout Blaster, rather than two), I can potentially land 10 damage in HALF the actions that doesn't depend on my opponent's hand size and leaving precisely *ONE* chance for my opponent to counter.

Your "ideal roll" here requires one specific facing on each of those five dice. That's a 0.0024% chance of happening.

But sure, tell me more about how unlikely it is to get one of the ten usable upgrades with a Holocron in my opening hand.

If you want to be snarky, why don't you math me up the likelihood of you drawing *two* Sith Holocrons *and* two Mind Probes *and* rolling both specials on turn one for that eight resource swing? I'm sure it's super high.

Personally I don't give two heaping helpings of Bantha fodder for the maths.

I've played both. The second one works more often, and doesn't *need* the perfect roll to pull off between 4-10 dmg on the second turn of the first round.

EDIT:

In summation, I continue to find Sith Holocron firmly in the "good" column and well removed from the "broken" column. Maybe someone will absolutely blow my pants off with it and my opinion will change, but so far no dice (hurr).

You listed the odds of rolling 7 dice with Jango and Jetpack vs rolling a special twice on Holocron. What are the odds of drawing Jetpack on the first turn and rolling 7 damage vs the odds of drawing Holocron, 2 Mind Probes, rolling specials on the Holocron twice, rolling a special on each Mind Probe, and finally resolving the specials on both MP while your opponent has 4 cards in their hand so you can do 8 damage? I don't have the math skills to figure out what the numbers actually are, but I don't need them to know it's incredibly unlikely to happen.

I have no idea what you're going on about here. I never suggested both Mind Probes would hit specials. I never even suggested what the added upgrades would do at all - that's pure gravy. The referred 8 was the resource efficiency, which WW compared to the damage from a Jetpack. I've said repeatedly that the 8 is effectively a theoretical maximum, but you don't need two Mind Probes for this to be far and away the most powerful card in the game.

Even in a middling situation - say I get it off once, and can't pay for it - say I pay for a 2-cost, and Holocron in another two cost. You play a two cost. We're dead even on the first turn (one paid-and-played 2-cost) but I'm +2 worth of upgrades starting round two.

And really, the strongest counterargument to it is "You might not draw it"? Uhm... sure. I guess every card sucks then, because you might not draw it.

I like how your "middling situation" involves a 1/3 and 4x the actions as your opponent to ONLY get +2 resources worth of upgrades.

Pretty sure that says a lot right there.

Sure, if you decide to play ALL of the Blue Ability Upgrades, I don't see why you wouldn't play it I guess, but honestly at that point aren't card slots a bit of an issue too lol?

The reason people keep saying "if you draw it" is because it becomes less and less valuable as the game goes past turn 2. At that point, if you aren't in a position to win, the Holocron will almost never save you.

So while cards like Force Choke, Electroshock, Jetpack, etc. all help you in the mid-game, Holocron does not. So if you don't see it turn 1-2, you may as well never draw it. In fact at that point you are better off not drawing it.

I don't know about you, but I like having cards that help me all the time, and ESPECIALLY when I am in a losing position at that stage, not the opposite.

It is hardly the best card in the game. Hell, Force Choke by itself is probably a better card overall.

Similarly, if I get an ideal roll off the best first play in my Jango/Bala deck (Which involves only drawing ONE card, Holdout Blaster, rather than two), I can potentially land 10 damage in HALF the actions that doesn't depend on my opponent's hand size and leaving precisely *ONE* chance for my opponent to counter.

Your "ideal roll" here requires one specific facing on each of those five dice. That's a 0.0024% chance of happening.

But sure, tell me more about how unlikely it is to get one of the ten usable upgrades with a Holocron in my opening hand.

Tell us more about how broken a free Immobilize is.

Look, nobody is saying that the holocron isn't good, but declaring it busted at this point is putting the cart before the horse. Let's get some hard data in our hands and then revisit the subject, cool?

If you want to be snarky, why don't you math me up the likelihood of you drawing *two* Sith Holocrons *and* two Mind Probes *and* rolling both specials on turn one for that eight resource swing? I'm sure it's super high.

You don't need two Holocrons. You need one. It's very hard to take your evaluation of the card seriously when you don't even understand how it can be used. But sure, let's math it out.

Let's assume that one Holocron as a given - this "You might not draw it" applies to any card in your deck, so arguing the power level of a card based on whether you draw it is just stupid.

I'm going to stick with one Mind Probe, because the math is a lot cleaner I think a 3-resource swing is still dramatically better than what you'll get out of any other upgrade. Which I've been trying to point out, but nobody seems to want to deal with anything but the extreme arguments.

Chances of drawing at least one Mind Probe are 2/49+2/48+2/47+2/46=17%. It doesn't quite double that if you mulligan for it aggressively, but lands around 31%. If you're willing to take any of the blue abilities in the deck (there are usually 8) it's 67%, or 90% with a mulligan. If we just look for Mind Probe or Force Throw (both notable for their control abilities and >2 cost) it's a bit over 50%.

But still, stick with the Mind Probe. 31% chance to draw it, 33% chance for the Holocron special, 33% chance for the Mind Probe special = 3.5%. Now that's hardly automatic, but it's worth pointing out that I haven't been suggesting any given rolls on the upgrades that come into play, merely that they can get there. But it's still about a thousand times more likely than what anyone else has suggested they could pull off that's "equal". You've also saved a resource that your opponent would have to spend on their comparable 2-cost upgrade, that you can spend to cancel or for other upgrades.