Is it me or do the potential crafted items seem very powerful for a very reasonable rate? A blaster pistol with disorient, ion and auto fire being under 600 credits. 1 success and 6 advantages rolled.

The characters are buying this from an NPC pistol craftsman. I would think this would be much more expensive for his skills.

I guess it depends on how good the crafter is. They have to succeed and they have to have a decent roll, which to do with regularity means they are probably fairly accomplished. Those dice can be persnickety. Plus I run my games where capture is entirely likely and in the real world they don't hang your favorite gun outside the cell. I also don't see Disorient or Ion as all that big a deal.

I think the low prices for crafted items is to protect the game world's economy. If you can produce high quality blasters in the back of a freighter and sell them for a few grand a pop, there would be no point in doing anything else. Settle down amd.make and sell blasters all day.

Also, as a GM you need to limit the Roll Until... phenomena. I have a strict 1 attempt per session unless they have a long enough down time. This limits the effect of run-a-way dice rolls.

Another thing is to not cancel Threats with Advantages, this allows for crafted items to have downsides, as suits mad-science items like a time traveling car, that needs to get to 88.8 MPH to activate the time travel circuits and requires an insane amount of power to fire it.

Very interesting Jalek. How have your players taken this?

[quote name="JalekZem" post="2535891"

Another thing is to not cancel Threats with Advantages, this allows for crafted items to have downsides, as suits mad-science items like a time traveling car, that needs to get to 88.8 MPH to activate the time travel circuits and requires an insane amount of power to fire it.

Also, as a GM you need to limit the Roll Until... phenomena. I have a strict 1 attempt per session unless they have a long enough down time. This limits the effect of run-a-way dice rolls.

Another thing is to not cancel Threats with Advantages, this allows for crafted items to have downsides, as suits mad-science items like a time traveling car, that needs to get to 88.8 MPH to activate the time travel circuits and requires an insane amount of power to fire it.

I handle this by rolling the difficulty myself and and allowing one advantage to regardless of the negative result. Player doesn't know if their blaster might blow up in their hands

it makes it more fun and realistic. For example, if a mass produced heavy blaster rifle has autofire and cumbersome 3, why should some guy half assing it in their garage with no real design process be able to accidentally make the same rifle without the cumbersome trait.

He actually can't, the base template comes with Cumbersome 3.

I'm not a huge fan of crafting as is, but I've never had any of my guys express interest so I never had to get into some of these issues people are having real thoroughly.

The idea of not canceling the Threats isn't bad, but I wouldn't want it to get to the point where a PC wouldn't bother because they just don't create anything worth bothering with. That and I don't really want to mess with the base dice mechanics.

My initial thoughts were to adjust the base templates and either add some more detrimental stuff like Cumbersome 3 on the heavy energy rifle, or decrease/increase things on the templates like range, HPs. and encumbrance, to 'soak' up the positive dice results. My two cents.

He actually can't, the base template comes with Cumbersome 3.

I'm not a huge fan of crafting as is, but I've never had any of my guys express interest so I never had to get into some of these issues people are having real thoroughly.

The idea of not canceling the Threats isn't bad, but I wouldn't want it to get to the point where a PC wouldn't bother because they just don't create anything worth bothering with. That and I don't really want to mess with the base dice mechanics.

My initial thoughts were to adjust the base templates and either add some more detrimental stuff like Cumbersome 3 on the heavy energy rifle, or decrease/increase things on the templates like range, HPs. and encumbrance, to 'soak' up the positive dice results. My two cents.

I may have to steal this idea have a player who loves crafting. I've been trying to find ways to allow crafting without letting him get OP. Might spend an evening doing up custom templates with all kinds of negatives

Well without having the Threats not be cancelled by Advantages you either:

1) Fail to craft the item, but have a better template

2) Fail to craft the item, but have a worse template (which is rightly disposed of)

3) Succeed and make something better than the template

4) Succeed and make something worse than the template

In the case of 4 in particular, there is no penalty (other than credits) to just start over from the beginning. However, by allowing the Threats and Advantages to not cancel, the PC is able to better refine an item. They can spend ADV on the difficulty reducer and advantage generator options. This allows them to make a sub-par item for temporary use AND refine their design for the next time.

Is it me or do the potential crafted items seem very powerful for a very reasonable rate? A blaster pistol with disorient, ion and auto fire being under 600 credits. 1 success and 6 advantages rolled.

The characters are buying this from an NPC pistol craftsman. I would think this would be much more expensive for his skills.

Bear in mind that the chart assumes that it is a PC that is doing the crafting, and the costs listed are for parts and parts alone.

If they're buying specific results from an NPC, then frankly they're abusing the intent of the system to procure high-powered weapons at a bargain rate.

Since it's an NPC that's doing custom work-to-order, feel free to increase the cost. I'd say a x5 multiplier is the bare minimum, and any result that requires a Triumph to obtain should have it's cost multiplied by x10 at the very least.

Now, if the NPC is rolling the Mechanics check and the end results are determined based upon what's rolled, then I wouldn't increase the cost by quite so much. Maybe a x2 or x3 multiplier for the final cost, with the player getting to choose how any advantage/threat/triumph/despair results are spent in customizing the weapon.

The characters are buying this from an NPC pistol craftsman. I would think this would be much more expensive for his skills.

This goes outside the intent of the crafting system. It's for the players to build something, either because they want to, or because they have to, it's not a method to manufacture items to sell to players.

If you really want to go that way I suppose you could, but youd have to adjust the cost and rarity to match. Using existing items for comparison, a custom built blaster pistol would be in the same ballpark as a Nova Viper, which is exactly that; a custom built blaster pistol. That thing is 4,500 credits and rarity 9. By extension something a craftsman built would likewise be rarity 9 and start in the thousands.

I have an outlaw tech on my team, 4 int, 5 mechanics. He doesn't fail rolls and often times we get great hardware out of him.

I have an outlaw tech on my team, 4 int, 5 mechanics. He doesn't fail rolls and often times we get great hardware out of him.

Which is fine, as the outlaw tech has heavily invested in having such an amazing dice pool for their checks. And if the group is willing to spend the downtime and credits to let the outlaw tech do their thing, that's fine as well.

Well I have a PC with a great piece of gear now. Next time I'll add a cost modifier of X2 per rank in the crafting skill.

Side note: How would you get a holdout blaster crafted since there is no specific template?

Can't you stack encumbrance reductions? Away from the book presently.

Yes, though no particular mention to adding setback to notice.

IMO, the crafting rules are there to cover the easy 80% of the cases demonstrated by the system.

The crafting system is specifically NOT designed with the intent to allow you to easily re-create every single weapon that has ever been detailed, plus zillions of others that the creators never intended.

Yes, though no particular mention to adding setback to notice.

Sounds like a good opportunity for a house rule addition to the crafting results table to me.

I noticed an oddity in Special Mods, as a victim of a hoard of Rivals, my PC got spanked like a naughty puppy after pottying on the carpet. I ended up with a cyber-arm because of it built by my Jix (Jawa outlaw tech yes the PC above). On said cyber-arm it's possible to have a holdout blaster. Why the crap not a melee weapon a 'la Adam Jensen from Deus-Ex. I may have to ask for a mod of the mod.

Also, as a GM you need to limit the Roll Until... phenomena. I have a strict 1 attempt per session unless they have a long enough down time. This limits the effect of run-a-way dice rolls.

Another thing is to not cancel Threats with Advantages, this allows for crafted items to have downsides, as suits mad-science items like a time traveling car, that needs to get to 88.8 MPH to activate the time travel circuits and requires an insane amount of power to fire it.

Keep in mind that if a crafting roll is failed you lose the materials. (Special Modifications, p. 75)

As others have said, having an NPC craft these items at the listed cost goes against the concept. The price should definitely be more steep. A blaster-mechanic needs to charge not only for the time spent on the custom weapon, but also the time spent on failures, for upkeep of the shop, ect. This should require the PC(s) to roll Negotiation with a setback or two unless a good credit bonus is offered, as the blaster-mechanic will have to spend time not working on other projects that might be more profitable. In addition, some of this stuff might still be restricted, or at least concerning for some authorities. The blaster-mechanic is now a loose end. There is a record of the purchase. Likely even specs of the custom job. One of risks I let my players know of, if they have an NPC perform a roll on their behalf they are at risk of me flipping a Destiny point to have something bad happen. Not just an upgrade to difficulty, but a specific negative result. That is the risk of not rolling yourself.