Sorry, but movie characters are still made under WEG rules and have scores of skill dice beyond what a starting character gets to allocate. Consider that Luke, a farmboy from a desert planet started with a trained ability to Swim...

Rey is no different.

9 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Rey was simply exceptionally gifted with the Force, and in her fight with Kylo Ren, probably burned a few Destiny Points over the course of a few rounds to beat him.

Or perhaps one to wake up from being knocked out from exceeding her WT ("what if the impact knocked my stimpack into my skin")?

@Tramp Graphics , Rey could have easily had a rank of Healing Trance.

Aside from an easy (25-35 XP) dip into the Healer spec, there is also the Battle Scar rules that can give you access to certain appropriate talents.

There's nothing that says Rey has to be a starting character, and there's also no reference we have for how much XP she earned during the first "adventure." Or even when the session breaks were. TFA could have netted her easily a hundred or more XP—more than enough to get to a place where she could heal herself.

It seems your rigidity is hampering your ability to see alternative methods and ideas. Loosen up dude. In a discussion, you exchange opinions and work with the opinions of others. There's lots of friendly advice and play examples coming your way. Stop shooting them all down with sophomoric rules knowledge, and you'll find that people are more willing to engage with you.

Unless of course you thrive on discord!

55 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Because Poe is explicitley established within the movie as being the Resistance's best pilot, and to actually have been fighting for the resistance for a number of years. He's not a rookie fresh from the academy. Both Finn and Rey are fresh rookies with no experience. Finn was fresh from the Stormtrooper academy, and Rey was just a scavenger, eaking out a meager living on a backwater world, not much different than how Luke grew up. This is firmly established in the movie and in their backstories. Rey was simply exceptionally gifted with the Force, and in her fight with Kylo Ren, probably burned a few Destiny Points over the course of a few rounds to beat him. Thus, it is canon that establishes Finn and Rey as rookies , and thus Starting characters.

Dude, if you think there's not much difference between Rey's and Luke's background and upbringing I'm not sure what movies you've been watching because I'd say there's a huge difference.

Luke was raised by a loving aunt and uncle who did their best to shelter and protect him from the universe. They wouldn't even let Obi Wan, a Jedi Master, around him because they thought he'd endanger him.

Rey has been on her own since she was a child, living under the thumb of Unkar Plutt. She was living in an abandoned wreck of an imperial walker out in the middle of the desert. She's had to scavenge and fight to survive her entire life.

The only similarity between the backgrounds of Rey and Luke is that they grew up on a desert planet. At the same age Rey is much more capable and experienced than Luke. Rey is able to defend herself and survive quite capably whereas Luke got whooped by a single Tusken Raider when he ventured out looking for R2. There's no question in my mind that Rey, in game terms, started out with some extra xp to account for her experience and starting capabilities.

4 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, but for your Starting Spec , you have to take a Career Spec , and Rey was still a Starting character . While she certainly did earn XP during the "adventure" pretty much all of that went into her spec and into Force Powers. And her current Spec does not include any of those talents. I can say this because all she does throughout the movie is fight, pilot/co-pilot the Millennium Falcon , and repair machinery, and develop two Force Powers with some of their upgrades.

please show us this character sheet you are working from? And why you think someone who clearly has a LOT of skill in other areas is a starting character. But since you are assuming what she has and there is no official character sheet you are talking out your ass as to what she has and does not have.

I love when people try to rationalize movies in game terms like it matters. Like the movies are constrained in any way by game mechanics. It is entertaining though.

1 hour ago, mouthymerc said:

I love when people try to rationalize movies in game terms like it matters. Like the movies are constrained in any way by game mechanics. It is entertaining though.

You know you are on a website forum dedicated to a role playing game about a series of movies, right?

Writers certainly aren't concerned about an rpg, but as someone who enjoys Star Wars and rpgs it is cool to have a game that can simulate things that I see on film. I'm guessing fantasy flight was aiming to simulate things from the movies. I mean, ummm yeah... When people discuss characters and events from the movies in rpg terms they aren't implying that the screenwriter, director, or actors are or did. They're discussing how such events would play out in the rpg on a forum dedicated to said rpg. Didn't think that this concept required explanation, but hey, here we are.

The fact that we can have these kinds of discussions is a testiment to how well fantasy flight designed this game.

8 hours ago, ghatt said:

You know you are on a website forum dedicated to a role playing game about a series of movies, right?

Damn really?! I had no idea. Thanks for the infodump.

Some people just hold too rigidly to game mechanics. This is a narrative game that does have some good rules that do emulate the Star Wars medium quite well. The best version so far for me, including previous editions (not that they weren't enjoyable in their own right) and homebrew materials. The designers have created a game which allows multiple but not the exact same paths to the similar results. There are normal techs and force using techs, different paths to being a gunslinger, and different powers with some similarities. Case in point the actions of Move and Bind. A character can create one character that focuses on Move and does many of the things characters in the the movies, like Obi-wan and Luke, do. Another character can create a character more like Darth Vader and use Bind to reach the result, as the latter tends to use his telekinesis to rip people and toss them around. Or maybe they use a combination of the two. There is no one proper way to do things, which is as expected.

But please carry on arguing as I do find it quite entertaining.

16 hours ago, Daeglan said:

please show us this character sheet you are working from? And why you think someone who clearly has a LOT of skill in other areas is a starting character. But since you are assuming what she has and there is no official character sheet you are talking out your ass as to what she has and does not have.

I'm going by what we actually see her do and is capable of in the movie and how she advanced during it, as well as what is established about her from the visual dictionary and adaptations, which all establish as being a "nobody", just like Luke was. The whole movie is once again, a telling of the classic Hero's Journey. And, the "hero" of such stories is always a fresh-faced, untrained "every-man" just starting out.

20 hours ago, StarkJunior said:

So now you're the arbiter of canon based on character mechanics in an RPG?

Okay, then.

20 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

@Tramp Graphics , Rey could have easily had a rank of Healing Trance.

Aside from an easy (25-35 XP) dip into the Healer spec, there is also the Battle Scar rules that can give you access to certain appropriate talents.

There's nothing that says Rey has to be a starting character, and there's also no reference we have for how much XP she earned during the first "adventure." Or even when the session breaks were. TFA could have netted her easily a hundred or more XP—more than enough to get to a place where she could heal herself.

It seems your rigidity is hampering your ability to see alternative methods and ideas. Loosen up dude. In a discussion, you exchange opinions and work with the opinions of others. There's lots of friendly advice and play examples coming your way. Stop shooting them all down with sophomoric rules knowledge, and you'll find that people are more willing to engage with you.

Unless of course you thrive on discord!

During the course of the movie, it is likely that Rey could have earned upto 15 earned XP, which, based upon what we see in the movie went almost completely towards Influence, Move, Enhance, and Forsee, and a few upgrades in each, as well as maybe a few more ranks in piloting,mechanics, and maybe Lightsaber, and a few more talents from her talent tree. It is possible she may have added either Armorer, Artisan, or a dedicated lightsaber spec as a second spec during the course of the movie, but I find this unlikely. But there is nothing in the movie to even remotely suggest that she ever took any form of "healer" spec, nor any " Battle Scars" that would warrant her having an out of Spec talent, particularly a healing talent. So no, based upon what we see in the movie, Rey could not have had Healing Trance nor any other Healing talent. It is not something she demonstrates in the movie.

20 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Or perhaps one to wake up from being knocked out from exceeding her WT ("what if the impact knocked my stimpack into my skin")?

Now you're just stretching. The movie does not support that. Rey was unhurt. She simply had the wind knocked out of her for only about a minute, and based upon the RAW, that is best emulated through the Staggered effect, not exceeding your wound threshold, and suddenly being below your wound threshold a minute later. The rules just don't support that. All you're doing is trying to justify some what were Move is the "only" means of doing Force Push when it is clearly not, especially in this instance.

20 hours ago, ghatt said:

Dude, if you think there's not much difference between Rey's and Luke's background and upbringing I'm not sure what movies you've been watching because I'd say there's a huge difference.

Luke was raised by a loving aunt and uncle who did their best to shelter and protect him from the universe. They wouldn't even let Obi Wan, a Jedi Master, around him because they thought he'd endanger him.

Rey has been on her own since she was a child, living under the thumb of Unkar Plutt. She was living in an abandoned wreck of an imperial walker out in the middle of the desert. She's had to scavenge and fight to survive her entire life.

The only similarity between the backgrounds of Rey and Luke is that they grew up on a desert planet. At the same age Rey is much more capable and experienced than Luke. Rey is able to defend herself and survive quite capably whereas Luke got whooped by a single Tusken Raider when he ventured out looking for R2. There's no question in my mind that Rey, in game terms, started out with some extra xp to account for her experience and starting capabilities.

The differences between Luke and Rey's backgrounds are relatively "cosmetic". The details are different, but both are basically wide-eyed "backwater hicks", living a life of drudgery, with no real experience with the world at large, who are thrust into a grand adventure which leads them to discovering hidden potential neither knew they had. They were both talented mechanics and pilots but nothing out of the ordinary. They were "nobodies" with no practical experience.

So if she only earned 15 xp how did she buy those 3 things? cause they are 10xp each. As a person who has not played the game you lack of understanding is showing. And please stop with your regidity. This game system is not a rigid one and you are acting like you are playing D&D or something. Which is not how this game works. And since we do not have her character sheet we do not know what career she is. We don't know what talents she bought or what her skills are. You are not the arbitrator of what her character has or does not have. So drop that line of thinking. We aren't buying it. Especially from someone who has not played the game yet. You lack of experience with the system shows.

8 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

So if she only earned 15 xp how did she buy those 3 things? cause they are 10xp each. As a person who has not played the game you lack of understanding is showing. And please stop with your regidity. This game system is not a rigid one and you are acting like you are playing D&D or something. Which is not how this game works. And since we do not have her character sheet we do not know what career she is. We don't know what talents she bought or what her skills are. You are not the arbitrator of what her character has or does not have. So drop that line of thinking. We aren't buying it. Especially from someone who has not played the game yet. You lack of experience with the system shows.

I meant 150 earned XP, not 15. it's a Typo.

One thing I forgot to add, is something Kylo said about Rey to Snoke when he says, "She is strong in the Force, Untrained , but stronger than she knows. This is a clear indication of Rey's level of experience within the context of the movie. She has a lot of potential, but it is still untapped, and undeveloped . This is the hallmark of a starting character.

"Untrained" and "inexperienced" aren't the same things.

And dude, you keep hanging on to the assertion that Rey was "unhurt." That is, quite frankly, bullcookies. She was thrown back several meters and smacked her head on a tree trunk, enough that it momentarily made her lose consciousness—or perhaps it was the subsequent fall to the ground that made her unconscious Whatever game mechanics you use to portray that (yours are fine, but you've gotta allow for other interpretations), saying that she "wasn't hurt" is simply not true.

That said, it's also possible that she suffered strain greater than her strain threshold! Falling damage can do that, too. Not to mention the arduous journey up to that point that was sure to have take a toll on Rey. "Hurt" can mean some strain damage, just like it can mean wound damage, or another effect like disorient. But being rigid about it is antithetical to the system. It's a decent call to say that she could have been incapacitated due to reaching one of the strain thresholds, but it's only one possibility.

And also, specializations and Battle Scars (like the above-mentioned thresholds and statuses) are just mechanical tools to try and get that Star Wars feel. You can pigeonhole characters on screen and assume that they are playing a RPG with a GM that has slavishly bound himself to a oddly incongruous, yet rigid, interpretation of the RAW, but you're relying on several assumptions, none of which can actually be true. We're all just spitballing and offering conjecture about how something might have gone down, but the directors, screenwriters, and actors weren't using RPG rulesets to create their scenes. So none of us can actually be "right."

But of course we are talking about a game first and foremost. And so it comes down to a discussion of "how can this scene be played out using the rules?" When you look at the question honestly like this, one could arrive at a number of different conclusions. And in those conclusions are imbedded their assumptions about the film and their interpretations of the game rules. But you know what they say what happens when you assume... Furthermore, your interpretation of RAW is yours, mine is mine, and they can both be "correct" even if they differ slightly. For that matter, why not allow that the GM might have granted some "GM-awards"? Or that he might have hand-waved certain circumstances? Real-world GMs do that all the time. Just ask around. And we all know that JJ loves himself some hand-waving

TL;DR: no one is "more correct" that the other, here. The only incorrectness is comes when one tenaciously assumes he has the "best" answer, especially when nearly everyone else disagrees with him and tries to show him a myriad of alternates. Dogged adherence to one's own (potentially faulty) assumptions in the face of well-reasoned alternatives is a recipe for...well, something bad, I would assume...

10 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

"Untrained" and "inexperienced" aren't the same things.

And dude, you keep hanging on to the assertion that Rey was "unhurt." That is, quite frankly, bullcookies. She was thrown back several meters and smacked her head on a tree trunk, enough that it momentarily made her lose consciousness—or perhaps it was the subsequent fall to the ground that made her unconscious Whatever game mechanics you use to portray that (yours are fine, but you've gotta allow for other interpretations), saying that she "wasn't hurt" is simply not true.

That said, it's also possible that she suffered strain greater than her strain threshold! Falling damage can do that, too. Not to mention the arduous journey up to that point that was sure to have take a toll on Rey. "Hurt" can mean some strain damage, just like it can mean wound damage, or another effect like disorient. But being rigid about it is antithetical to the system. It's a decent call to say that she could have been incapacitated due to reaching one of the strain thresholds, but it's only one possibility.

And also, specializations and Battle Scars (like the above-mentioned thresholds and statuses) are just mechanical tools to try and get that Star Wars feel. You can pigeonhole characters on screen and assume that they are playing a RPG with a GM that has slavishly bound himself to a oddly incongruous, yet rigid, interpretation of the RAW, but you're relying on several assumptions, none of which can actually be true. We're all just spitballing and offering conjecture about how something might have gone down, but the directors, screenwriters, and actors weren't using RPG rulesets to create their scenes. So none of us can actually be "right."

But of course we are talking about a game first and foremost. And so it comes down to a discussion of "how can this scene be played out using the rules?" When you look at the question honestly like this, one could arrive at a number of different conclusions. And in those conclusions are imbedded their assumptions about the film and their interpretations of the game rules. But you know what they say what happens when you assume... Furthermore, your interpretation of RAW is yours, mine is mine, and they can both be "correct" even if they differ slightly. For that matter, why not allow that the GM might have granted some "GM-awards"? Or that he might have hand-waved certain circumstances? Real-world GMs do that all the time. Just ask around. And we all know that JJ loves himself some hand-waving So no one is more correct that the other here. The only incorrectness is comes when one tenaciously assumes has the "best" answer, especially when nearly everyone else disagrees with him and tries to show him a myriad of alternates. Dogged adherence to one's own faulty assumptions in the face of well-reasoned alternatives is a recipe for...well, something bad, I would assume...

The problem with that assertion, and how it effects Force Push, and its "supposed" limitation to the Move power, is that none of those options are available as far as "damage" from Move's hurl upgrade. Move's hurl upgrade strictly causes Wound damage, Not Strain, from falling, not Disoriented, only Wounds . And by RAW, Wounds take a long time to heal: One day per wound, or two hours per wound if treated in a bacta tank. By contrast, Bind's Mastery upgrade can stagger the target, which only lasts until the target's next turn , which perfectly simulates what happened to Rey. Those are the only options possible based upon the powers in question and why Move's Hurl upgrade cannot be what Kylo used on Rey. It had to have been Bind using the movement upgrade combined with the Mastery upgrade. If you want to say it was Strain damage, that too would require Bind through the Strain control upgrade. In either case, it is still Bind that Kylo was using to Force Push Rey back, not Move's hurl upgrade. And no, Rey didn't hit her head against the tree. She hit her back against the tree. She had the wind knocked out of her, not a concussion. And yes, afterwards, she wasn't even phased. That indicates to me that she was unhurt physically.

Hold up man. No one is saying that Force push is limited to the Move power. You are the one saying that it is limited to the Bind power, but nearly everyone else here seems to be in agreement that both powers can do it (as well as Draw Closer doing the Force-pull thing).

8 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Hold up man. No one is saying that Force push is limited to the Move power. You are the one saying that it is limited to the Bind power, but nearly everyone else here seems to be in agreement that both powers can do it (as well as Draw Closer doing the Force-pull thing).

Actually, yes, almost everyone here has been asserting that Move is the only way to use Force Push . Happy Daze, has, Daeglan has, etc. They've all been trying to prove to me that Kylo used Move's hurl upgrade to throw Rey into the tree under the assertion that all uses of Force Push are done through Move , and that it is always for damage, and that Bind's movement upgrade cannot be used for Force Push or Force Pull . My point as to why that is not what happened has been that this is not what we see in the movie because Rey recovered too quickly to have suffered wounds enough to incapacitate her, which would have ended the fight completely.

59 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I'm going by what we actually see her do and is capable of in the movie and how she advanced during it, as well as what is established about her from the visual dictionary and adaptations, which all establish as being a "nobody", just like Luke was. The whole movie is once again, a telling of the classic Hero's Journey. And, the "hero" of such stories is always a fresh-faced, untrained "every-man" just starting out.

During the course of the movie, it is likely that Rey could have earned upto 15 earned XP, which, based upon what we see in the movie went almost completely towards Influence, Move, Enhance, and Forsee, and a few upgrades in each, as well as maybe a few more ranks in piloting,mechanics, and maybe Lightsaber, and a few more talents from her talent tree. It is possible she may have added either Armorer, Artisan, or a dedicated lightsaber spec as a second spec during the course of the movie, but I find this unlikely. But there is nothing in the movie to even remotely suggest that she ever took any form of "healer" spec, nor any " Battle Scars" that would warrant her having an out of Spec talent, particularly a healing talent. So no, based upon what we see in the movie, Rey could not have had Healing Trance nor any other Healing talent. It is not something she demonstrates in the movie.

Now you're just stretching. The movie does not support that. Rey was unhurt. She simply had the wind knocked out of her for only about a minute, and based upon the RAW, that is best emulated through the Staggered effect, not exceeding your wound threshold, and suddenly being below your wound threshold a minute later. The rules just don't support that. All you're doing is trying to justify some what were Move is the "only" means of doing Force Push when it is clearly not, especially in this instance.

The differences between Luke and Rey's backgrounds are relatively "cosmetic". The details are different, but both are basically wide-eyed "backwater hicks", living a life of drudgery, with no real experience with the world at large, who are thrust into a grand adventure which leads them to discovering hidden potential neither knew they had. They were both talented mechanics and pilots but nothing out of the ordinary. They were "nobodies" with no practical experience.

Dude... cosmetic, lol.

Lets just ignore the evidence in the film that counters this. Sounds good. Awesome.

2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Actually, yes, almost everyone here has been asserting that Move is the only way to use Force Push . Happy Daze, has, Daeglan has, etc. They've all been trying to prove to me that Kylo used Move's hurl upgrade to throw Rey into the tree under the assertion that all uses of Force Push are done through Move , and that it is always for damage, and that Bind's movement upgrade cannot be used for Force Push or Force Pull .

Lots of folks have said both can do it...

3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Actually, yes, almost everyone here has been asserting that Move is the only way to use Force Push . Happy Daze, has, Daeglan has, etc. They've all been trying to prove to me that Kylo used Move's hurl upgrade to throw Rey into the tree under the assertion that all uses of Force Push are done through Move , and that it is always for damage, and that Bind's movement upgrade cannot be used for Force Push or Force Pull . My point as to why that is not what heppened has been that this is not what we see in the movie because Rey recovered too quickly to have suffered wounds enough to incapacitate her, which would hav eended the fight completely.

Okay well I never said that So dunno why you are addressing me with those comments.

And I wasn't aware that almost everyone here doesn't think that Bind can be used to pull or push. That surprises me, because that is the literal effect of one of the upgrades. There might be some disagreement about whether one can activated it without activating the basic power, but let's not get into that again, because it's a binary answer with a RAI vs. RAW reading. We're all waiting for a rules answer.

The only thing I said about it was that the Basic power of Move, plus at least one Strength upgrade, can perfectly accomplish a Force push or pull if you don't wanna do any damage. So can that Bind Control upgrade, but it's harder to get to (and, pertaining to the previous paragraph, the jury's out on whether spending dark side points would in fact inflict wounds or not). I know you disagree with this and that I won't be convincing you, and have already said my piece about why I think Move is, and has always been, a valid method of performing such antics.

Think most people would agree that Force Push/Pull can be either Move or Bind, depending on the usage.

Is it used to damage someone by throwing them bodily into something? It's Move. (via the Hurl upgrade)

Is the power used to immobilize them while moving them, or to choke them? It's Bind.

Neither? Then it could be either.

26 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Actually, yes, almost everyone here has been asserting that Move is the only way to use Force Push . Happy Daze, has, Daeglan has, etc. They've all been trying to prove to me that Kylo used Move's hurl upgrade to throw Rey into the tree under the assertion that all uses of Force Push are done through Move , and that it is always for damage, and that Bind's movement upgrade cannot be used for Force Push or Force Pull . My point as to why that is not what happened has been that this is not what we see in the movie because Rey recovered too quickly to have suffered wounds enough to incapacitate her, which would have ended the fight completely.

No I said both can be used. I said move is better for it.

And I never said you couldn't use Bind, only that you could also use Move.

15 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Okay well I never said that So dunno why you are addressing me with those comments.

And I wasn't aware that almost everyone here doesn't think that Bind can be used to pull or push. That surprises me, because that is the literal effect of one of the upgrades. There might be some disagreement about whether one can activated it without activating the basic power, but let's not get into that again, because it's a binary answer with a RAI vs. RAW reading. We're all waiting for a rules answer.

The only thing I said about it was that the Basic power of Move, plus at least one Strength upgrade, can perfectly accomplish a Force push or pull if you don't wanna do any damage. So can that Bind Control upgrade, but it's harder to get to (and, pertaining to the previous paragraph, the jury's out on whether spending dark side points would in fact inflict wounds or not). I know you disagree with this and that I won't be convincing you, and have already said my piece about why I think Move is, and has always been, a valid method of performing such antics.

Well, as I said, based upon the Developers' comments, Move's base power is too slow for Force Push or Force Pull, since it's restricted to about Walking speed. This was the reasoning why it's no good for "flying", according the the Developers. That leaves only two options, Move's Hurl upgrade, which always inflicts Wound damage equal to Silhouette times 10, or Bind's movement upgrade, which can be used to immediately move a target one range band closer or farther away form the user, but does not necessarily inflict any injury.

11 minutes ago, Benjan Meruna said:

Think most people would agree that Force Push/Pull can be either Move or Bind, depending on the usage.

Is it used to damage someone by throwing them bodily into something? It's Move. (via the Hurl upgrade)

Is the power used to immobilize them while moving them, or to choke them? It's Bind.

Neither? Then it could be either.

Well, based on the RAW, Bind's movment upgrade does not necessarily have to im mobilize the target first. It's a Control upgrade after all.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, as I said, based upon the Developers' comments, Move's base power is too slow for Force Push or Force Pull, since it's restricted to about Walking speed. This was the reasoning why it's no good for "flying", according the the Developers. That leaves only two options, Move's Hurl upgrade, which always inflicts Wound damage equal to Silhouette times 10, or Bind's movement upgrade, which can be used to immediately move a target one range band closer or farther away form the user, but does not necessarily inflict any injury.

Well, based on the RAW, Bind's movment upgrade does not necessarily have to im mobilize the target first. It's a Control upgrade after all.

And we have provided plenty of evidence that move is more than 2 speeds. so no it is not too slow.

which you pretty much ignored. It is not restricted to walking speed. You need to read the rest of the paragraph that talks about juggling crates. It starts out slow but as a user gets better the speed improves. Juggling is not slow speed. And the Devs have not responded to whether you need to use the immobilize power or not. Some things you do and some thing you don't

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

No I said both can be used. I said move is better for it.

Only for certain things, namely using it to hit a third party to inflict wound damage.

2 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

And I never said you couldn't use Bind, only that you could also use Move.

And I don't disagree, It all depends upon what you're trying to accomplish : cause wound damage, or push them way from you (or pull them to you) without necessarily wounding them. My point is that in the csase of Kylo vs Rey, it was Bind's movement upgrade combined with the Mastery upgrade because by RAW, if it had been from Hulr, she would not have suffered enough wounds to go over her Wound threshold, (and thus incapacitate her), and if that had been the case, she would not have been able to recover to below her wound threshold within the minute or so she was down. Therefore, in that particular instance (and given Kylo's propensity for using Bind ), it had to have been Bind's movement upgrade combined with its Mastery upgrade to Force Push Rey.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

Only for certain things, namely using it to hit a third party to inflict wound damage.

And I don't disagree, It all depends upon what you're trying to accomplish : cause wound damage, or push them way from you (or pull them to you) without necessarily wounding them. My point is that in the csase of Kylo vs Rey, it was Bind's movement upgrade combined with the Mastery upgrade because by RAW, if it had been from Hulr, she would not have suffered enough wounds to go over her Wound threshold, (and thus incapacitate her), and if that had been the case, she would not have been able to recover to below her wound threshold within the minute or so she was down. Therefore, in that particular instance (and given Kylo's propensity for using Bind ), it had to have been Bind's movement upgrade combined with its Mastery upgrade to Force Push Rey.

Maybe on Kylo. It could be bind. But more likely it is move since it is slamming someone into an object. And without having Reys character sheet and knowing what talents she has what soak she has we will never know what happened in game terms. She could have a couple ranks of toughness and a decent soak. And Kylo could have spent a couple advantage on disorienting her. it does not have to be the stagger effect.