Didn't you suggest the ceilings thing yourself? But now you're trying to claim it's all or nothing?

Is the problem that it's easy to abuse or that we don't see this particular hypothetical in the movies? Because you seem to be varying between these.

You want a fix for the damage problem? Your fix is a particular houserule that I've seen several times on these forums: "Dealing damage with Move requires the Control upgrade that lets you hurl objects, and does damage equivalently."

You want a fix for the problem of it not fitting the kind of game you want to play? Talk to your hypothetical player. Tell them that you don't want this in your campaign. Simple as that.

At its core, this situation depends on both bad playing and bad GMing to become any kind of serious problem. Decide what's best for your game and do that—I can't change the rules to suit you, and I can't give any concrete advice on a problem player that doesn't actually exist.

We've long reached the point where it's obvious that you don't like the RAW and need either a houserule or a chat with your players. With that in mind, I'm done with this thread; there's no point to continuing when there's nowhere to continue to.

I challenge you: Throw a droideka in the way you mentioned.

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/adversaries/adversary/2891/

I really don't get your angle, maybe you need to elaborate more on your problem with the whole situation.

The problem is that Move doesn't behave like it does in canonical sources. Yes, people can be thrown, but it's always what is commonly referred to as "Force Push" or "Force Pull", a quick burst of movement that hurls someone across the room or knocks them to the ground. In SWRP on the other hand you can grab someone and move them a kilometer away from you to extreme range, or a kilometer up, or a kilometer under water, literally mop the floor with them, or use them as a Krayt Dragon toothbrush. If you have fine manipulation you could argue that you should be able to use move to completely puppeteer someone's body, and make them shoot themselves in the head. With the rule that you can rip things out of secure mountings you could even argue that it should be possible to tear a person limb from limb with the power. You can even commit force dice to sustain a fun use of Move you've thought up. The way it's written is so ridiculously broad that there is basically nothing you can't do with a person after winning an opposed check against them, the only limit is when the DM starts screaming "That's not how the force works!". Changing your opponents position in the battlespace is the only thing that's definitively written into the rules of the power as being allowed, and there the DM can't really do much other than award conflict, because even just that is abusable to an extreme degree.

None of the other force powers in the game so completely miss the mark of representing their canonical pattern.

If you don't let the power affect living things then it's OK. Force users do have the ability to do just about anything they want with inanimate objects at a distance. This is well established in the movies and other sources, the rules for throwing objects at people are sound, there is no problem. There is a power that lets you briefly disable people and move them short distances in the game, that power is called Bind. It seems to be able to effectively represent the Force Push / Force Pull moves that happen in the movies. The game works when you don't allow Move to affect people, and use Bind instead, but if you do allow it is a total mess where a player can gain near absolute control over an opponent after one single check.

Is the problem that it's easy to abuse or that we don't see this particular hypothetical in the movies? Because you seem to be varying between these.

I just noticed something else odd with your description.

The only way to to throw someone a km into the air would be to use a ranged combat check to throw the person at something. If you want to rules lawyer there are two problems. "The sky" is not a legit target for this while on top of that you are facing the issue that invoking two different checks at the same time. The resist check against the force power and the range combat check if you "shoot" correctly, which creates another problem discussed elsewhere.

Either way, it makes quite the difficulty check for extreme range, especially if ranks of adversary come into play as well. And depending how you rule the conflict between the range combat check and the opposed check it might become even harder. In general it sounds a lot hassle for something which is not as effective as just doing an easy discipline check and activating autofire 3 times. And it does not get countered by someone opponent having a jetpack, jump boots, force move or access to a tractor beam or swoop. After all that free-fall from about 1300m should take about ~25 seconds, plenty of time to perform an action for the opposition. (1g, earth like atmosphere)

You don't actually need to make a combat check, you can activate the power entirely without the throwing component and simply say you move them there. The power allows moves out to extreme range, which is roughly a kilometer away. You just need to make the opposed check to use the force on someone against their will.

You don't actually need to make a combat check, you can activate the power entirely without the throwing component and simply say you move them there. The power allows moves out to extreme range, which is roughly a kilometer away. You just need to make the opposed check to use the force on someone against their will.

And wait 10 minutes. ;-) (and commit force dice)

I might have miss the speed upgrade outside of the option to make a ranged combat check.

"When moving items, the default speed is slow and deliberate, not fast enough to inflict injury …", the control upgrade that ups the speed requires the range combat check.

It is still actually a cool move, grab a few guys, and lift them into the sky, commit your force dice and fight with your lightsaber while part of the opposing forces float up to their downfall …

Page 283, sidebar, last paragraph.

"Likewise, an attempt to use Move to throw a character around a battlefield could be opposed by Resilience, as the defending character resists with his raw physical strength."

That's slightly out of context. It's preceeded by text that says that discipline is the default skill to oppose force powers and the gm, at their discretion, could allow other skills if the circumstances warrant it, and the text you quoted is an example of when the situation would allow alternative skills (at the gm's discretion), but the default/primary skill for resisting *ALL* force powers is discipline.

My point wasn't the skill being used - my point was that the Power itself can be used to throw PEOPLE, as the example (and the Example of Play) clearly shows.

I think one of the big issues the OP has with Move being used to throw people around, that everyone else seems to ignore is the fact that Bind specifically has an upgrade that is designed to do exactly that. One of Bind's upgrades specifically covers Force Push and Force Pull by allowing you to move a target (or targets) one range band further or closer. Also, Bind does not inherently give you Conflict.

I, personally, wasn't ignoring it so much as pointing out that, using the RAW, Move CAN be used on people. Bind can be used to, but I suppose it merely comes down then to which power the character in question has: if they have Bind, but don't want to power-spend to be able to Force Push via Move, then they don't have to; and if they have Move, but don't want to power-spend on Bind to do the same, then they don't have to.

Either way, RAW say that Move can be used on a character. If the GM doesn't like it, house rule! If it doesn't bother them, then don't. :-)

You don't actually need to make a combat check, you can activate the power entirely without the throwing component and simply say you move them there. The power allows moves out to extreme range, which is roughly a kilometer away. You just need to make the opposed check to use the force on someone against their will.

Not in one round you can't. I'd rule it take the same amount of time as it would to move there using one maneuver per round. So about four or five rounds later, the target is at Extreme range. In the mean time, you'd have to make a Move power check every round since the target is resisting.

And wait 10 minutes. ;-) (and commit force dice)

I might have miss the speed upgrade outside of the option to make a ranged combat check.

There is no rule that stops you from moving something from close to extreme range in a single turn. Bind has a rule like that, Move does not.

Not in one round you can't. I'd rule it take the same amount of time as it would to move there using one maneuver per round. So about four or five rounds later, the target is at Extreme range. In the mean time, you'd have to make a Move power check every round since the target is resisting.

That's completely making up new rules though at that point.

The rules for the power read "...move one object of silhouette 0 that is within short range up to his maximum range." So the way you can read that is that you can only pick up objects that are in short range to you, and you can move them to anywhere up to your maximum range in that turn. The Range upgrades for Move state that they raise your maximum range, and there is enough of them to get you Extreme range as your maximum.

Of course that's another thing people generally ignore when they use Move, because once again the rules are kind of unclear whether this whole distinction of maximum range this one particular power makes is just odd wording or if it really does mean to say that the object always has to start within short range. I mean it would make some amount of sense, that would be a pretty huge balancing factor to hurling huge objects, since they would end up outside of your range, so you can't hurl them over and over. But hey, unclear rules are Move's specialty, so we just don't know.

There is absolutely nothing in the power that says you need to move things one range band at a time. Only Bind has that rule.

Move is powerful yes not more so than Protect/Unleash I make a 2 difficulty check have unlimited power ok sounds good enough. With a ton of Force die it can deal 30 damage to wide spread out targets at long range cause why not. The other offense powers are more powerful than move, you can't Super Crit with Move, Bind can. Do you want to have utility with your Damage ability Heal/Harm and Protect/Unleash are better. The Mover needs to resist the opponent so does The Choker, The Shocker doesn't. The Force powers do scale you just seem stuck on Move, you just can't MOVE past it can you! D&D must drive you bonkers after 3rd level spells!

You know the GM is the ultimate Arbiter so therefore it's his/her Job to determine interpretation of the ruling, everything everyone has said to 'fix' this issue is a valid point and you seem to like none of them. You have a problem with dropping, ok say you only take lethal damage from Extreme Planetary Range, that ruins the Movers plans. Try a Low Gravity world you can take less damage from higher up. Work with your players or tell them munchkins will be executed on spot. Just come up with a solution your the GM it is your job. Find a solution that works, if you want to neuter the Move power be ready for another rules lawyer to be the defense attorney on the RAW interpretation pointing out what we have said, that the move power allows to move objects and as much as you hate it living things are a type of Object.

Yes, a character with a few thousand XP might at some point have enough force dice for Unleash to become just as deadly as Move is the second you can scrape 3 pips together. That's not exactly a great argument for why it's balanced.

And no, the GM shouldn't have to deal with rules that are so wide open for interpretation that they need to come up with completely new rules from scratch to make them work. The whole point of spending money on a ruleset is to have a system that helps you to impartially adjudicate all interactions between players and world. If you come up to a portion that's basically "This power can kill anything or nothing at the discretion of the GM" you just haven't got a good rule system, all you have is a source of arguments.

Yes, a character with a few thousand XP might at some point have enough force dice for Unleash to become just as deadly as Move is the second you can scrape 3 pips together. That's not exactly a great argument for why it's balanced.

Questions for you:

Are you the GM of your group? If so, have you got a house rule in place for Move, or do you simply say it cannot work on people and that only Bind can? Yes? Great! No? Then I recommend you do so since you clearly dislike the RAW.

If you're the player, bring it up with the GM and see what she thinks; if she's unwilling to change it, then respect her wanting to use RAW and move on, or change groups.

In either case, those who like RAW will not see eye-to-eye with you on this issue, so let's just agree-to-disagree and go back to enjoying that galaxy far, far away, nai?

Move has never been a problem at my table, one I don't care if you can throw minions they are fodder anyway and let's say you can muster 3 pips together, your Will has to be of Iron and your Discipline amazing so you can lift Mr. Beefy. Beefy whom is in your way hits you hard if you fail and fail with a few despair and you won't try that again. There always is a simpler solution(KISS). Attack him from all sides with snipers who all either have Iron Wills or ate too many Protien Bars you find they won't be thrown. Don't fix what ain't broken.

Questions for you:

Are you the GM of your group? If so, have you got a house rule in place for Move, or do you simply say it cannot work on people and that only Bind can? Yes? Great! No? Then I recommend you do so since you clearly dislike the RAW.

If you're the player, bring it up with the GM and see what she thinks; if she's unwilling to change it, then respect her wanting to use RAW and move on, or change groups.

In either case, those who like RAW will not see eye-to-eye with you on this issue, so let's just agree-to-disagree and go back to enjoying that galaxy far, far away, nai?

The rules are not clear, including on whether or not you can actually throw people with this power.

There is an entire power dedicated to what you can do when you've gained physical control over someone's body, that codifies everything from restraining them to injuring them to moving them. Then there is Move which can do all the same things if you allow it to be used on people, except with no rules to govern the outcome whatsoever. Why does Bind even exist if Move can do everything it can do except the GM has to make up the rules?

There is no clear and correct interpretation of these rules. The only thing that's clear is that if you allow Move to be used on people it does everything Bind does and more without any of the limitations that keep Bind balanced.

Bind is Force Choke plain and simple, it can restrain which Move literally cannot, you seem to think these two are the same which they are not. Critical hits can be done with bind and move can do lots of damage, but force push and pull is Move not Bind.

Bind

http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/15/51/768x576/gallery-1450434649-darth-vader-does-not-dance.jpg

Move

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/144066/3689872-force+push+monsters.jpg

Yes, a character with a few thousand XP might at some point have enough force dice for Unleash to become just as deadly as Move is the second you can scrape 3 pips together. That's not exactly a great argument for why it's balanced.

And no, the GM shouldn't have to deal with rules that are so wide open for interpretation that they need to come up with completely new rules from scratch to make them work. The whole point of spending money on a ruleset is to have a system that helps you to impartially adjudicate all interactions between players and world. If you come up to a portion that's basically "This power can kill anything or nothing at the discretion of the GM" you just haven't got a good rule system, all you have is a source of arguments.

For 50 more XP, a force user can have four strength upgrades in the Unleash tree. In exchange for this 50 XP you get both Protect and Unleash. Any force rating increases and ranks in the discipline skill would be useful/required by both Tossy McTosserson and Elroy Emo-Unleash, so the only net difference is the cost in force trees.

Also, while death is a possibility when you are adding +50 or +75 to the critical injury roll, it is hardly guaranteed. One of my players actually did use the Move power to drop a bounty hunter from medium range. Knocked the Bounty Hunter out cold. And then his friends rushed over, stimpacked him up and got him back in the fight. The PC tried it again, and in the meantime another PC was dropped by the BH's companions. It then became a show down, where the downed PC had a gun held to her head, while the now floating BH said "Put me down softly or your friend dies". A negotiation of sorts ensued, in which the Bounty Hunter dropped is immediate pursuit of the rogue droid (another player in the group) in exchange for not being dropped to his doom (again)

Look we all understand your concerns about being able to "one shot" bad guys, and sure, if abused, the Move power can do that really effectively. But if a player is going to consistently just reach for the "I win button" every single time, in every single encounter, maybe a table top RPG isn't really the game for them.

Bind is Force Choke plain and simple, it can restrain which Move literally cannot, you seem to think these two are the same which they are not. Critical hits can be done with bind and move can do lots of damage, but force push and pull is Move not Bind.

Bind is a lot more than force choke. You can use it to create the effects of a force choke, but you can also use it to create the effects of throwing an enemy into a wall causing them to pass out for a while or knock them down, which is what Force Push does in the movies. It also lets you freeze someone in place the way Kylo Ren does.

There is no reason why Move can't restrain people. At the very least you can levitate them and then commit dice to maintain the power. If you can simply grab someone and move them all over the place though there is no reason why you wouldn't be able to use that power to simply pin them in place. That's exactly the issue with it, it gives you vast narrative freedom without giving you specific rules for anything you can do with it. At the very least you can use it to move people to anywhere in the battlespace, and that all by itself is crazy powerful the second there are any lethal environmental hazards in play, such as tall ceilings.

For 50 more XP, a force user can have four strength upgrades in the Unleash tree. In exchange for this 50 XP you get both Protect and Unleash. Any force rating increases and ranks in the discipline skill would be useful/required by both Tossy McTosserson and Elroy Emo-Unleash, so the only net difference is the cost in force trees.

Also, while death is a possibility when you are adding +50 or +75 to the critical injury roll, it is hardly guaranteed. One of my players actually did use the Move power to drop a bounty hunter from medium range. Knocked the Bounty Hunter out cold. And then his friends rushed over, stimpacked him up and got him back in the fight. The PC tried it again, and in the meantime another PC was dropped by the BH's companions. It then became a show down, where the downed PC had a gun held to her head, while the now floating BH said "Put me down softly or your friend dies". A negotiation of sorts ensued, in which the Bounty Hunter dropped is immediate pursuit of the rogue droid (another player in the group) in exchange for not being dropped to his doom (again)

Look we all understand your concerns about being able to "one shot" bad guys, and sure, if abused, the Move power can do that really effectively. But if a player is going to consistently just reach for the "I win button" every single time, in every single encounter, maybe a table top RPG isn't really the game for them.

The difference is that with a force rating of 6, which is where you will statistically generate an average of 4 pips on every roll you can activate every single boost of Move and just do anything the power can possibly do with it, while 4 pips worth of unleash buys you what? The basic activation and range? The basic activation and two strength upgrades? Basic activation, strength and magnitude? Even if you activate strength twice and have a willpower of 6 and a phenomenal attack roll that came out with 6 net successes, you're looking at 20 damage to a single target at short range. Unleash can be crazy powerful if you can actually activate all of its nodes, but it costs 9 pips to activate all of them at the same time, and that's with only one activation of strength, of which you want multiples to do extreme damage. Unleash can get crazy if you have a ton of force dice to throw at it, but at the mark where Move tops out you're not even close to utilizing its full potential.

It doesn't really matter much if an NPC actually received a lethal crit if they are incapacitated does it? Most of the time defeated is defeated, though ok, there are some circumstances where you can't go back to confirm your kill and it does matter.

I don't think you can tell a player that they are playing the wrong game just because they always use their best attack. I mean sure, the ideal player party in a roleplaying game doesn't concern itself with optimizing their characters mechanically, but instead focuses on playing out their characters goals and motivations. But even then when a character is engaged in lethal conflict there is no good reason for them to hold back their best attack. This is a high lethality system where initiative on the first turn can determine the outcome of the whole battle, and the best way to not get hit is to destroy the most dangerous enemies before they can strike. It's very realistic in that sense, so it's not bad roleplaying for characters to understand this dynamic and attempt to overpower their enemies before they can act.

Literally in the Bind power it gives you Mechanical reasons why it's better at keeping people in place, you can't stop a guy from firing with Move, Bind potentially can it has upgrades that allow you to Stagger and Disorient. Move can throw people much better since bind cannot move people with any due haste.

And wait 10 minutes. ;-) (and commit force dice)

I might have miss the speed upgrade outside of the option to make a ranged combat check.

There is no rule that stops you from moving something from close to extreme range in a single turn. Bind has a rule like that, Move does not.

Not in one round you can't. I'd rule it take the same amount of time as it would to move there using one maneuver per round. So about four or five rounds later, the target is at Extreme range. In the meantime, you'd have to make a Move power check every round since the target is resisting.

That's completely making up new rules though at that point.

The rules for the power read "...move one object of silhouette 0 that is within short range up to his maximum range." So the way you can read that is that you can only pick up objects that are in short range to you, and you can move them to anywhere up to your maximum range in that turn. The Range upgrades for Move state that they raise your maximum range, and there is enough of them to get you Extreme range as your maximum.

Jesus, are you honestly suggestion that you can use move only in short range, but then move it at 21 m/s to extreme range without violating the rule that say "slow and no speeds which could harm the target" and then tell us that there is no rule preventing this when the power explicitly states "When moving items, the default speed is slow and deliberate, not fast enough to inflict injury …", 21m/s is definitely not slow and definitely enough to crack a skull.It's freaking 75km/h if rounds are a minute and it becomes even more in shorter rounds. It is literally against the rules..

Though I agree that move would not require each round a new move power check. To break free I would allow the target to make an opposed check instead, which removes the targets option to just shoot the force wielder instead IF the target choose so and don't think that just firing is more effective. Though if you think it works that way than the maximum range to initative move onto something is short, which means you can counter it super easy by just running away, initiating a chase while shooting behind you …

Yes, a character with a few thousand XP might at some point have enough force dice for Unleash to become just as deadly as Move is the second you can scrape 3 pips together. That's not exactly a great argument for why it's balanced.

And no, the GM shouldn't have to deal with rules that are so wide open for interpretation that they need to come up with completely new rules from scratch to make them work. The whole point of spending money on a ruleset is to have a system that helps you to impartially adjudicate all interactions between players and world. If you come up to a portion that's basically "This power can kill anything or nothing at the discretion of the GM" you just haven't got a good rule system, all you have is a source of arguments.

No, that is not the point. If that would be the case the same would apply to world descriptions and you end up with systems describing every last straw of the world, something which is highly polarizing within the player community. Some really like this, others want freedom within their sandbox, and the same holds true for the mechanical side, some people actually prefer even diceless systems with complete narrative freedom, some prefer even GM less systems, and so on. This system is in many ways written intentionally vague to allow different interpretations … not a fan of this specific style to be honest, especially with those DnD like bureaucratic equipment tables and pedantic lists and examples what each skill and action can achieve with extra successes and advantages, details hours given for crafting, while the duration of repairs is completely up to the GM with even a hint. Nonetheless being vague is nothing unheard, nor anything particular disliked in general. Not every systems needs 200 pages of crit tables (I am looking at you MERS and Rolemaster), or even just one. Stuff can be vague and left to the GM. now FFG sucks at writing rules which make clear when they are vague intentionally and when they are just incredible badly written … but that is some quite different issue. ;-)

I don't think it's petty at all...

Sorry, but the fact you're trying to use exact wording to prevent a game effect from being used as intended over a make-believe scenario makes it incredibly petty on your part. It'd be much the same as trying to argue that Breach only reduces Armor but has no impact on Soak based upon an overly strict interpretation of how a portion of the rules text is worded.

Much like your "the sky is falling!" thread about PCs getting high Force Ratings (something that was categorically and repeatedly shown to NOT be a concern), unless your players are actively trying to manipulate and twist the rules to their benefit.

I won't argue that Move isn't a powerful effect, but it's not nearly as powerful as it looks at first glance, since the PC either has to invest heavily in the power tree to purchase the various upgrades, has to invest a lot of XP into boosting up their Force Rating, or some combination of the two in order to make it a reliably powerful means of attack.

There's also one balance factor you've overlooked in your focus on the mechanical aspect of the game, and that is the narrative balance of the setting. Move is one of the most grossly blatant Force powers in the game in terms of its effects, and it'd be very easy to say that the Force user is affecting anything of Silhoutte 1 or larger, there's no disguising who's responsible for people and things suddenly getting flung around. Qui-Gon was able to downplay his manipulating of Watto's chance cube because it was so small, he's a Jedi Master with decades of experience, and he only needed to give it a slight nudge rather than manipulate it outright. But any other time we see a Force user using Move, there's an outstretched limb and hand gestures making it pretty clear who the responsible party is. And in the default era that these games are set in, being identified as a Force user is a bad thing, since most people tend to equate being a Force user with being a Jedi, and the Empire has a very strong dislike of Jedi running around causing trouble. A PC that's being too open and flashy with using Move to deal with opponents is going to eventually draw the attention of the Empire, be it Inquisitors (at first), up to Darth Vader if they become a big enough nuisance, and the rules for fighting Darth Vader = you lose (as noted in the Rescue at Glare Peak module should the PCs be unlucky enough to not escape before Vader shows up).

Yes, a character with a few thousand XP might at some point have enough force dice for Unleash to become just as deadly as Move is the second you can scrape 3 pips together. That's not exactly a great argument for why it's balanced.

And no, the GM shouldn't have to deal with rules that are so wide open for interpretation that they need to come up with completely new rules from scratch to make them work. The whole point of spending money on a ruleset is to have a system that helps you to impartially adjudicate all interactions between players and world. If you come up to a portion that's basically "This power can kill anything or nothing at the discretion of the GM" you just haven't got a good rule system, all you have is a source of arguments.

Yeah and the guy with a sniper rifle will be even more deadly against single targets with just acquired ~150xp, a high end-rifle and a jetpack. Which is pretty standard equipment and approach to shooting people from a distance. I mean you used a willpower 5 and discipline 3 character to lift that droideka with a 50/50 chance, meanwhile a sniper one-shots that thing 5 out of 10 times from long range without trouble with "just" agi 5 and 3 ranks in gunnery. Add more than just 3 ranks of lethal blows and/or increase to gunnery 5 that Heavy Verpine shatter gun you reach pretty quickly the state of one shot, one kill.

So yeah, the system is "deadly" in all kinds of ways, people lose limbs quickly and get incapacitated quickly too, but they heal quickly as well and losing a limb makes them come back just stronger …

Questions for you:

Are you the GM of your group? If so, have you got a house rule in place for Move, or do you simply say it cannot work on people and that only Bind can? Yes? Great! No? Then I recommend you do so since you clearly dislike the RAW.

If you're the player, bring it up with the GM and see what she thinks; if she's unwilling to change it, then respect her wanting to use RAW and move on, or change groups.

In either case, those who like RAW will not see eye-to-eye with you on this issue, so let's just agree-to-disagree and go back to enjoying that galaxy far, far away, nai?

The rules are not clear, including on whether or not you can actually throw people with this power.

There is no clear and correct interpretation of these rules. The only thing that's clear is that if you allow Move to be used on people it does everything Bind does and more without any of the limitations that keep Bind balanced.

But the rules ARE clear: the part of the rulebook I quoted, the fact the Devs themselves have said it can be used on people, and the fact it's used that way in the Example of Play all make it **** clear that the power can be used on people. Fact. Done. Dusted.

RAW was already answered by Lady Skywalker:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/236642-rules-lawyering-move-cannot-be-used-to-throw-people/?p=2535692

So, yes, by RAW Move can be used to throw people. However...

Seriously, why are people so hellbent on defending this? It's like not a single person here actually likes the dynamics of classic Star Wars and instead wants to play The Force Unleashed where you chokeslam Star Destroyers off the top rope or something.

I agree that Move is pretty poor. It's the **** in the punchbowl. It's unimaginative, and feels like it was designed by a committee who couldn't agree whether to go movie-restrained, or force-unleashed, and decided to meet somewhere in the middle. That said, unless the PC invests solely in FFG's Move and bee-lines it for FR2+, their early abilities aren't overpowered when compared to the weapons other PCs can bring to bear...and yet, throwing things around with Move is just not very Star Wars to me. Vader did it exactly once, when Luke was already at the limit, and more to push him over the brink than anything else.

But you're not going to get buy-in by people who like it, you have to go your own way. In case you're interested, I made my own. One major change was providing only one Strength upgrade, though it could be triggered more than once (with the right additional upgrade), requiring a pip for each additional Silhouette. Here is the current iteration:

There's also one balance factor you've overlooked in your focus on the mechanical aspect of the game, and that is the narrative balance of the setting.

I agree that this issue can be resolved narratively. However, my view is that the game shouldn’t be broken in this respect so that the GM is forced down that path so quickly.

Move seems to be the one power that is so OP in this regard.

But can Move be used to beat a dead horse?