On the contrary Strength 3, Agility 4, 15 XP in Gadgeteer and 1500 starting credits gets you a 6 Damage Jury Rigged Autofire Heavy Blaster Rifle

Only six damage? Or sixteen?

Well, base 6, but add 4 for success and then hit 3+ times a round so yeah 16 is a conservative guess

The difference is that a jury-rigged autofire weapon isn't the cheapest, least rare, most legal and lowest encumbrance weapon in the lists. Sure, autofire at 1 advantage is ridiculously powerful, but it doesn't make all other weapons pointless. Even the low quality weapons that no player ever touches exist for a reason, so that you can stat out NPCs that are using sub-standard gear. Those weapons are never three times as expensive as the good ones though.

Also sure, I suppose if your PCs just keep dropping NPCs to their death over and over you can just run a campaign where every enemy ever has a gravity belt because word got around that those are a much better investment than armor which only provides a measly 2 soak and does absolutely nothing against drop-Jedis. It's kind of weird how this never came up in any of the movies or any other canonical or legends source though. There are literally thousands of years worth of Jedi fighting in wars and not a single one realized simply dropping everyone is the most powerful attack there ever was. Armies that fought the Jedi would often equip their troops with prohibitively expensive Cortosis to counter lightsabers, but not a single one ever thought of just making a simple gravity belt standard equipment to counteract the most powerful attack a Jedi can do. Luckily Darth Munch and his kin are here to correct this colossal blunder in Star Wars military tactics.

What would you call Dooku throwing Obi-Wan during the fight on board Greivous's flag ship during Revenge of the Sith? Sure looks like a good example of using the Move power to fling an enemy in the air and incapacitate them.

No question, using move in this way is powerful, but it requires a FR of 3 to use consistently:1 pip to activate power + 1 strength upgrade + 1 Range upgrade. But this presumes you have two range upgrade talents, so 1 pip gives you two range bands (e.g. short to long). Otherwise you need four pips. Then you need the investment into WP and Discipline because against a major rival or Nemesis (the only targets I would care about if I were GM), it will be an opposed check. There is also the average Athletics or Coordination check the target gets to make while falling to reduce the damage or even potentially reduce the range band of the fall.

There are a lot of ways to very easily deal stupid amounts of damage in this system, Move is only one of those. Jury Rigged Autofire is much easier to get, shooting humanoids with Starship weapons is another devastating attack. If your not going to have in game consequences for the actions of your PC's then what's happening in the story? Are the PC's living in a vacuum? Important NPC's should always react to major actions the PC's make;

The difference is that a jury-rigged autofire weapon isn't the cheapest, least rare, most legal and lowest encumbrance weapon in the lists. Sure, autofire at 1 advantage is ridiculously powerful, but it doesn't make all other weapons pointless. Even the low quality weapons that no player ever touches exist for a reason, so that you can stat out NPCs that are using sub-standard gear. Those weapons are never three times as expensive as the good ones though.

Also sure, I suppose if your PCs just keep dropping NPCs to their death over and over you can just run a campaign where every enemy ever has a gravity belt because word got around that those are a much better investment than armor which only provides a measly 2 soak and does absolutely nothing against drop-Jedis. It's kind of weird how this never came up in any of the movies or any other canonical or legends source though. There are literally thousands of years worth of Jedi fighting in wars and not a single one realized simply dropping everyone is the most powerful attack there ever was. Armies that fought the Jedi would often equip their troops with prohibitively expensive Cortosis to counter lightsabers, but not a single one ever thought of just making a simple gravity belt standard equipment to counteract the most powerful attack a Jedi can do. Luckily Darth Munch and his kin are here to correct this colossal blunder in Star Wars military tactics.

Bind allows for very slow movement of a bound target, it can only be activated once. So it's great for bringing a bound target with you as you stroll the halls of your Death Star, but it's not for throwing people (or Droids) across a coliseum.

The bind power doesn't say anywhere that the movement is slow, and I honestly can't think of a single example from canon sources where a person was thrown at high speeds over extreme distances resulting in lethal injuries with the force. Every canonical example of a living person being moved with the force falls well within what Bind allows you to do, and I can't think of a single one that falls within what Move allows you to do.

Edit:

And in rotj Vader knew he wouldn't win the opposed discipline check with palps, so instead he physically threw him down the "bottomless pit".

Duuku might have been trying to use the drop trick with bind on obiwan, in the beginning of revenge of the sith.

There are tons of things in this game that are absurdly lethal, that's for sure. I think it's a significant weakness in the rules that it's so easy to make a weapon that can autofire a target into oblivion, or is practically guaranteed huge crits with every single attack. However, even with the most conservative interpretation of the rules Move can inflict 40 points of damage on multiple targets, making it an extremely powerful attack, yet that's not good enough for some people, it needs to literally one shot every single enemy that can take fall damage, and be able to render any melee opponent completely ineffective by making them walk for 3 turns just to get back into range when you move them. The GM can only counter this by making every single fight take place inside of a tiny room, or equipping all enemies with jetpacks and gravity belts.

Seriously, why are people so hellbent on defending this? It's like not a single person here actually likes the dynamics of classic Star Wars and instead wants to play The Force Unleashed where you chokeslam Star Destroyers off the top rope or something.

There are only a tiny number of examples of people being thrown with the Force in the movies, and all of them are adequately explained with Bind. You have Yoda throwing Palpatine into a chair about 10 meters away, which doesn't seem to do a whole lot of damage but staggers him for a while, and you have Kylo Ren throwing Rey, into a tree about 5 meters away, which knocks her out for the duration of his saber duel with Finn (which lasts all of 20 seconds). You have Obiwan and Anakin trying to throw each other resulting in a backfire that throws both of them about 10 meters, but also not with lethal force. Dooku throws Obi Wan in Episode 3, but he very clearly force chokes him before he throws him, only throws him maybe 20 meters, and then pins him under a catwalk to keep him from getting back up. All of those are possible with Bind. Not a single one has someone actually throwing a person at extreme ranges with lethal results. It's always short range and the result is always knocking the person out of the fight for a time.

I mean, if you can easily move people with the force, why did Yoda catch the pillar that Dooku tried to crush Anakin and Obi Wan with instead of just moving them out of the way? Oh, and why didn't he throw the pillar at Dookus ship?

Why does Vader throw objects at Luke until a strong wind blows him out the window in Bespin instead of just throwing Luke out the window to begin with? Why doesn't he simply use Move to grab Luke when he jumps off the platform? Why does he physically grab the Emperor and gets electrocuted instead of just force moving him into the hole?

In the scene where Obi Wan and Anakin are fighting on Mustafa they insist on purely dueling with lightsabers, despite the fact that half the fight is over a river of lava where even the slightest use of Move would mean instant victory. They do try to throw each other in the control room, and manage to toss each other about 10 meters each only.

It's like every single scene from the movies where immensely powerful characters use Move it isn't nowhere near as obscenely powerful as what everyone thinks the power should be like in this game.

What would you call Dooku throwing Obi-Wan during the fight on board Greivous's flag ship during Revenge of the Sith? Sure looks like a good example of using the Move power to fling an enemy in the air and incapacitate them.

Looks like Bind to me. He picks him up with a force choke, then moves him a short distance. That's perfectly consistent with what Bind does.

What would you rule with regards to your interpretation of the rules and Droids? Are Droids objects or characters?

Seriously, why are people so hellbent on defending this? It's like not a single person here actually likes the dynamics of classic Star Wars and instead wants to play The Force Unleashed where you chokeslam Star Destroyers off the top rope or something.

There is a simple answer to your question.

You can either play with the rules as they are written, or you can house rule the elements you feel are "broken". Your initial post claimed RAW, Move can't be used to move "characters". The rules do not support this interpretation, nor do the developers. Move being "overpowered" to me isn't that big of a deal (or at least, it is simply another way players can break the system if they really try). I can have an 4 Ag, autofiring, jury rigged weapon wielding character at game start.

If you want to know what the Devs were thinking, send them a note and ask. They do answer questions (eventually).

Seriously, why are people so hellbent on defending this? It's like not a single person here actually likes the dynamics of classic Star Wars and instead wants to play The Force Unleashed where you chokeslam Star Destroyers off the top rope or something.

There is a simple answer to your question.

You can either play with the rules as they are written, or you can house rule the elements you feel are "broken". Your initial post claimed RAW, Move can't be used to move "characters". The rules do not support this interpretation, nor do the developers. Move being "overpowered" to me isn't that big of a deal (or at least, it is simply another way players can break the system if they really try). I can have an 4 Ag, autofiring, jury rigged weapon wielding character at game start.

If you want to know what the Devs were thinking, send them a note and ask. They do answer questions (eventually).

This is really on point. To us Aetrion your trying to say that because the rules don't fit your vision of Star Wars that no one else can play the system differently. Your trying to find a concrete reason in the rules to back your opinion, and we are trying to point out that it's not there.

This system is written for people to use in their own way, it's not a MOBA. The Developers have given a wide variety of tools to players to use to create interesting stories. If part of those rules are not to your liking then change it for your group. Have a talk with the group and tell them you don't want that particular element to be in this Campaign.

But coming to the game developers own forum and claiming "y'all been doing it wrong for 5 years, clearly the rules back me up" is only going to result in the discussion we are all having. The Developers themselves have admitted the Move power can actually be used on yourself if you want, you can LEVITATE AND FLY!! in their opinion. But that doesn't fit every group or game so most just don't.

What would you rule with regards to your interpretation of the rules and Droids? Are Droids objects or characters?

The movies and the Clone Wars show seem to be pretty clear on the fact that throwing battledroids hard enough to break them is trivially easy for Jedis. They don't have to throw them very far either, pretty much just pushing them over with the force seems to take them out. Within FFGs rules this does seem consistent with using Move to inflict their silhouettex10 in damage to a fragile minion. On the other hand, you never see a Jedi throw a Droideka or a Magnaguard, despite the fact that that would be just as easy by FFG rules.

The movies seem to operate more under the force power classification as it is laid out in games like Jedi Knight though, where Force Push/Pull is a separate thing from Force Move. You can Push and Pull people pretty easily by creating a shockwave with the force, but actually grabbing them is extremely difficult and violent if they aren't willing participants. You can't simply grab someone and move them hundreds of meters away from you in the movies, every time a person gets moved it seems to be a very quick and powerful burst of energy that projects them no further than maybe 10-20 meters.

From a raw balance standpoint, Droids are straight up immune to a lot of mind altering powers in the game, so it makes some amount of sense that they would be more susceptible to the powers that manipulate raw physics. The force seems to distinguish between luminous beings and crude matter on some level.

This is really on point. To us Aetrion your trying to say that because the rules don't fit your vision of Star Wars that no one else can play the system differently. Your trying to find a concrete reason in the rules to back your opinion, and we are trying to point out that it's not there.

My vision of Star Wars has nothing to do with the fact that it's absurd that the cheapest of all the offensive powers can inflict instant death on the vast majority of all enemies you encounter in the game. But yea, it does bother me that if you can Move people around you end up with a power that bears absolutely no resemblance to what you see in the movies, and instead is this absolutely absurd power trip. I don't care if someone wants to play with overpowered force Move in their campaign, but it bugs me that the system contains no rules that better represent the Force as it's seen in the source material.

It's also annoying in open games when the game is so unbalanced that you start seeing the same characters again and again, while entire vast avenues of advancement are ignored by the players. Move being by far the most powerful offensive power is such an unbalance.

Yeah, fair call. I think though that the intention of the devs was to create a system broader than just the Movies. When they started the EU was still the EU, and their system was supposed to encompass as much as reasonable. Throughout their entire design they have always stressed that Narrative is an important element of balancing their system, ie some things are very easy to do but have significant long term consequences.

What would you rule with regards to your interpretation of the rules and Droids? Are Droids objects or characters?

The movies and the Clone Wars show seem to be pretty clear on the fact that throwing battledroids hard enough to break them is trivially easy for Jedis. They don't have to throw them very far either, pretty much just pushing them over with the force seems to take them out. Within FFGs rules this does seem consistent with using Move to inflict their silhouettex10 in damage to a fragile minion. On the other hand, you never see a Jedi throw a Droideka or a Magnaguard, despite the fact that that would be just as easy by FFG rules.

This is really on point. To us Aetrion your trying to say that because the rules don't fit your vision of Star Wars that no one else can play the system differently. Your trying to find a concrete reason in the rules to back your opinion, and we are trying to point out that it's not there.

My vision of Star Wars has nothing to do with the fact that it's absurd that the cheapest of all the offensive powers can inflict instant death on the vast majority of all enemies you encounter in the game. But yea, it does bother me that if you can Move people around you end up with a power that bears absolutely no resemblance to what you see in the movies, and instead is this absolutely absurd power trip. I don't care if someone wants to play with overpowered force Move in their campaign, but it bugs me that the system contains no rules that better represent the Force as it's seen in the source material.

It's also annoying in open games when the game is so unbalanced that you start seeing the same characters again and again, while entire vast avenues of advancement are ignored by the players. Move being by far the most powerful offensive power is such an unbalance.

I would not agree that it is just as easy to toss battle droids as it is Magna Droids/Droidekas. Magna Droids and Droidekas are nemesis level characters and would resist a move check against them as an opposed check. For Magna Droids this at least a 4 purple check (Brawn of 4), and a GM can easily rule that its one rank of adversary applies.

For a Droideka this is a 2 Purple, 3 Red difficulty, as it has Brawn 5, and 3 Resilience.

If players continue to use the same combat tactic round after round, game after game, its up to the GM to challenge them, and get them to use something else.

I would also add here, one of the challenges regarding the Move Force power is that it is one of the earliest Force Powers that came out for the game system. At that time, there was only the one game line, Edge of Empire, and it was only possible to have a Force Rating of 2, as no other Force using Specializations were available beyond Force Sensitive Exile. The issues we are discussing about the abuse of the Move Power require a FR of 3 to consistently pull off, which is something that simply didn't exist when this Power was first written.

If players continue to use the same combat tactic round after round, game after game, its up to the GM to challenge them, and get them to use something else.

I wish I could like this twice. The way I see it yes you can drop people, but put them up against a Mando with a Jetpack and he'll be fine throw things at him add setback since he's really good with that jet pack. They still like to drop people and it's a problem give them Force resistant enemies. Throwing stuff a problem, put them in a small room with cushioned walls and a rather nasty Melee opponent. There is always a way around the players it's a GM's job to find the interesting solution. The ultimate way (and in no means fun to the player but may be fun for the sadistic GM) is to drop them yourself see how they like it. However since I have the feeling we want more productive solution, try fighting them with a beefy and I mean 6 brawn 5 resilience and willful like 5 will 5 discipline inquisitor have him use force unleash he will kill them if they refuse to use another tactic since he will be **** near impossible to lift 5C + 1D and lighting just hurts and is easier to land and hits like a truck. Ooh a Genius bruiser would work as well with heal/harm.

Seriously, why are people so hellbent on defending this? It's like not a single person here actually likes the dynamics of classic Star Wars and instead wants to play The Force Unleashed where you chokeslam Star Destroyers off the top rope or something.

Why are you so hellbent on bashing it? I'm not just trying to be a wise-elbow. Are you actually playing in a game where Move is causing these problems? Because if so, you need to speak to the GM (which might be yourself?) about reining it in. The GM has many tools at his disposal to curb disruptive behavior. These include speaking to the players, house rules, and simple manipulation of the game environment. If my players keep throwing Millenium Falcons at their enemies, maybe I won't leave them lying around.

On the other hand, if you're not seeing these problems happen at an actual table, with actual people, then you're creating a problem where one doesn't exist, and you're snapping at people who tell you there's not a problem.

There are a lot of people here, in this thread, who have been playing this game for years. The general consensus is that Move is not a big problem. Yes, Move looks terrifying on paper, but that's an awful big list of folks who haven't had issues with it, or solved those issues pretty easily, without arbitrarily deciding that the developers aren't saying exactly what they're saying.

The problem with consequences is that story consequences tend to hit the party more than the character causing them, and if you single out the character for consequences it creates a dynamic where you're punishing players in the game for stuff you don't like out of the game.

Personally I really hate punishing the players for playing the game in the smartest possible way. If you have a choice between one super illegal power that just does a smattering of points in damage and one super illegal power that instantly kills even the most powerful of Nemesis, it's stupid to make the player pay for choosing wisely. It's the designers that messed this up by writing rules that are balanced when you can't move people, and then seemingly abandoning that all important restriction.

These fundamental imbalances in things that cost experience are a problem in this game, because when you look at a lot of characters it becomes very obvious that they tend to converge on a small number of build options that are extremely strong, while others get ignored. When someone makes a character that can instakill any opponent who roams beneath the open sky, sure, you can shut that down as the DM, but then you might also be shutting down the person at the table to enjoys using a marksman sniper rifle and scaling buildings with a grappling hook, or the person who loves using force jump.

Why are you so hellbent on bashing it?

I'm not hellbent on bashing it at all, I just think if you read the power as object actually meaning object you don't end up with a ridiculous Force Unleashed level rancor squashing uberpower dumped into the midst of other powers that are hard pressed to ever exceed 20 damage. For some reason everyone here seems to think a few examples of movie characters throwing someone 10 meters away from themselves means there needs to be a power that lets you throw 5 people 300 meters upwards. Sorry, it just doesn't make any sense why this one power should be so above and beyond more powerful than anything it can do in canonical sources while every other power is relatively faithful to the movies by comparison.

The easiest way to deal with this issue is house rule it if it upsets you so much. If your players (I'm assuming you are the gm here) know what your house rules are from the beginning, there shouldn't be an issue.

Honestly, I think if your players are more interested in playing the most mechanically efficient character, this may not be the system for them.

A point to counter that Aetrion is well if you build a scenario where the Mover can't operate too well like say the Mando another party member will have their time to shine. The Mando with a Jet pack needs open air too and the sniper likes targets that are in the open. Force resistant enemies have no say whether you jump around them or not. The GM's job is to provide fun moments for everyone, The Sniper, Mover, Talker, Juggernaut and Spitfire (To name a few.) should have their on and off days and their should be times when multiple players need to combine their strengths to overcome foes!

Who do you combine strengths with someone who can kill any enemy in one shot if their power is allowed to work at all?

There are a lot of ways to very easily deal stupid amounts of damage in this system, Move is only one of those. Jury Rigged Autofire is much easier to get, shooting humanoids with Starship weapons is another devastating attack. If your not going to have in game consequences for the actions of your PC's then what's happening in the story? Are the PC's living in a vacuum? Important NPC's should always react to major actions the PC's make;

The difference is that a jury-rigged autofire weapon isn't the cheapest, least rare, most legal and lowest encumbrance weapon in the lists. Sure, autofire at 1 advantage is ridiculously powerful, but it doesn't make all other weapons pointless. Even the low quality weapons that no player ever touches exist for a reason, so that you can stat out NPCs that are using sub-standard gear. Those weapons are never three times as expensive as the good ones though.

Also sure, I suppose if your PCs just keep dropping NPCs to their death over and over you can just run a campaign where every enemy ever has a gravity belt because word got around that those are a much better investment than armor which only provides a measly 2 soak and does absolutely nothing against drop-Jedis. It's kind of weird how this never came up in any of the movies or any other canonical or legends source though. There are literally thousands of years worth of Jedi fighting in wars and not a single one realized simply dropping everyone is the most powerful attack there ever was. Armies that fought the Jedi would often equip their troops with prohibitively expensive Cortosis to counter lightsabers, but not a single one ever thought of just making a simple gravity belt standard equipment to counteract the most powerful attack a Jedi can do. Luckily Darth Munch and his kin are here to correct this colossal blunder in Star Wars military tactics.

Bind allows for very slow movement of a bound target, it can only be activated once. So it's great for bringing a bound target with you as you stroll the halls of your Death Star, but it's not for throwing people (or Droids) across a coliseum.

The bind power doesn't say anywhere that the movement is slow, and I honestly can't think of a single example from canon sources where a person was thrown at high speeds over extreme distances resulting in lethal injuries with the force. Every canonical example of a living person being moved with the force falls well within what Bind allows you to do, and I can't think of a single one that falls within what Move allows you to do.

First Palp kills with Bind.Than he uses move to smash his former apprentice into the wall and Savage Opress along side. A turn of saber attacks following, then dropping Maul and his apprentice down a balcony, which proves not much of a problem for them as they resist any fall damage, enhanced is great for jumping and falling afterall. Another turn of lightsaber fighting, missed attack and a force move smashing Maul against a wall again, most likely as a maneuver to get the upper hand in his two vs one fight. Maul is so hard hit against that wall that he is out of combat for a turn, which allows Palpatine to finish off Opress. Lastly as Maul proves to be at least a little trouble with dual wielding lightsabers, Palpatine finish the fight with lifting Maul into the air and smashing him to the ground, the wall and and again the ground, leaving Maul incapacitated before Darth Sidious feets. The force lighting afterwards are purely for entertainment of the emperor.

You find scenes like that plenty of times in Star Wars, especially when the force powers between opponents are very uneven or there is an opponent in their concentration which allows to overcome they defense and use the force on them.

Make an encounter where he can't kill the thing in one shot. Say you have a scenario where the person doesn't have a jet pack but has super advanced armor meant to be keep the user safe from extremely powerful explosives, well one would say said suit could survive a fall but it might start to crack. All it requires to make anyone not kill things in one shot is designing custom enemies to provide a challenge. If you don't design the new enemies then make really beefy and agile characters they can either resist the attempt or reduce the effect. Oh but from extreme range you instantly die spend a destiny point and reduce the range you are GM use your Fiat since nothing is truely more powerful than the GM. (Caution the GM fiat must be used Liberally.)

There are tons of things in this game that are absurdly lethal, that's for sure.

BTW, what do you mean with absurdly? They are pretty tame still compared to their supposed real damage. You can get literally get hit for maximum damage with a lightsaber and still STAND. If anything the weapons still do absurdly low damage to allow for some cinematic action.

You find scenes like that plenty of times in Star Wars, especially when the force powers between opponents are very uneven or there is an opponent in their concentration which allows to overcome they defense and use the force on them.

Yes, there are a lot of scenes in Star Wars where someone uses the force to push someone in a straight line away from themselves and they go flying into stuff or get knocked down about 10-20 meters away. There are no scenes in Starwars where someone uses the force to simply throw someone so far away that they need to walk for 15 minutes to get back or drop to certain death. I'm not against having the power that people in the movies and shows seem to be using, we just don't have that power in SWRP, we have something way crazier.

BTW, what do you mean with absurdly? They are pretty tame still compared to their supposed real damage. You can get literally get hit for maximum damage with a lightsaber and still STAND. If anything the weapons still do absurdly low damage to allow for some cinematic action.

For example Autofire + Jury Rig. Let's say you have a Heavy Blaster Rifle, which does 10 base damage, and then use Jury Rig on it's auto fire quality to only require one advantage for activation. You now have a weapon that inflicts 10 + successes damage for every single advantage you roll. Against targets with a moderate soak rating of around 5 it's pretty easy to inflict 30+ damage in a single turn with a weapon like that, and that's without even modding the weapon for extra damage, or using a more powerful autofire weapon. You need to be extremely tanky to withstand that. The counter to this is having an extremely high soak rating. If every shot only inflicts 2-3 points of damage it's survivable to get shot 5 times in a row by a single attack. Unfortunately an enemy with soak and hitpoints that thwart this type of weapon is essentially unkillable for anyone using a standard weapon. If you use Saber Swarm to gain multiple lightsaber attacks with breach you can obliterate even high soak targets.

Then you have the crit monkey builds, where you mod a weapon down to a crit rating of 1, add a number of Vicious mods, some ranks in Lethal Blows, and a few attachments and properties that grant extra advantages on your roll and before you know it you have a weapon that produces a crit +50 or higher every single turn, or kills an entire group of minions with crit activations. This does have a significant random component, because if the crit rolls come out low the target might actually survive for a few rounds, but it also has the potential to score a total obliteration crit in the first shot, and frequently results in high crits that make the opponent much less dangerous. This can also be countered by having such an extreme soak rating that the weapon fails to do damage, and therefore can't trigger a crit, but it produces the same issue with that target then simply being unkillable by non-cheese means. Lightsaber crit builds that have breach are practically impossible to defend against without enough ranks in parry to completely negate the damage.

And then you have Move, which trumps even all of these by being a single opposed check to move a number of targets derived from ranks and activations of magnitude up to 1000m and dropping them, resulting in fall damage so high that the rulebook doesn't even give it a number, but simply says immediately incapacitated with a crit +50. This can be countered by having a target that is immune to fall damage or being confined to a space where range bands have no meaning. The problem is that it's silly to give every enemy a gravity belt just to thwart one power, and putting fights in a box hurts characters that actually use the range bands in regular ways.

Hovercar chase your enemies have jet packs or ate in hover cares and the building are just out of extreme range tell me how the you insta kill hurt yes by throwing sure but the difficulty will be really high due to a high speed chase and it would be reasonable to ask the Force user to do mental math before the throw so if the have no intelligence they can wreck the encounter. Every Move check attempted on a living being can be resisted by either Resilience or Discipline so run enemies with one or the other not every enemy needs to be tough to drop just the ones you want someone else to deal with, it's all about spreading the love.

I challenge you: Throw a droideka in the way you mentioned.

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/adversaries/adversary/2891/

And no, it is not unreasonable to invest a few credits into a cheap anti-grav belt when you are up against a guy with a reputation for throwing people into orbit. Might bite you actually, because at 1km height those guys are in a fine sniper position on high "ground".

The crit monkey is the guy who gives everyone a headshot. Absurdly damage? I think not.

The autofire guys is emptying tons of shots into his target with an automatic weapon. Absurdly damage? I think not. You are supposed to be incapacitated from such a series of hits, unless you are some kind of monster. ;-)

I really don't get your angle, maybe you need to elaborate more on your problem with the whole situation.

Aetrion you really just need to bust out a krayt dragon (or any silhouette 4+ creature with basically vehicle stats) or an army then to have what you are looking for, which is a fight you can "win" vs your PCs.