A lot of times on this forum I've seen people discuss how broken it is when people use move to throw their enemies at other enemies, causing massive damage to all of them. I've read over the rules a couple times in order to try and figure out what the hell the writers were thinking. What I noticed is that if you take a very literal reading of the rules it seems that you aren't allowed to actually use Move to throw people at all.

There are a couple of pieces of compelling evidence for this:

1. The rules for Move (F&D 298-299) only ever state that you can move objects.

Not once on the entire page of the Move power does it mention the ability to move people, enemies, allies, targets, creatures, opponents, or any other word that FFG uses to denote a living creature in the book. It only ever talks about objects of various silhouettes. Even the examples given are objects. It also has specific control upgrades to determine which objects in the scene you can grab, letting you rip things off the walls or out of an opponents hands, with no mention of people. The only time the rules on Move even mention targets is in the context of what you can throw objects at.

2. The rules in the book differentiate between objects and people in other places.

Misdirect (F&D 296-297) is restricted by silhouette much like Move, however, unlike Move the rules for Misdirect very clearly state that it can hide a "person or object of silhouette 1 or smaller". This isn't just a fluke either, the entire rules block for Misdirect states "person or object" every single time it mentions what you can hide. The writers were obviously very specific that this power works on both objects and people, and not only objects.

The only place I've found in the book where "object" is being used to describe a person is in the Encumbrance section (F&D 159) where it says "If a character has to lift an object with an encumbrance value greater than his encumbrance threshold, such as an ally who has fallen off a gantry or a ledge,..."

3. There is an entire power dedicated to physically manipulating living things.

Bind (F&D 286-287) is an entire power dedicated to physically controlling living creatures. The basic power allows you to immobilize them, strain them, damage them, and most importantly, move them around. There is a control upgrade that specifically allows you to move a bound creature by one range band. The artwork on the page also very clearly shows an enemy being levitated. All the instances of people being moved in the movies can be explained within the bounds of the Bind power.

4. The one time the book mentions using Move on a person is in a sidebar about making rules exceptions.

The Sidebar "Force Powers and Narrative" (F&D 287) talks about when the DM should allow powers to be used outside of their predefined boundaries to suit the narrative of the game. The example given is that a player character falls of a balcony, and a force sensitive character is granted an immediate use of Move or Bind to catch them. This is the only mention of using Move on a person in the book.

So there you have it. There is a very reasonable argument to be made that Move cannot be used to throw people. The book contains enough instances of being specific on the difference between a person and an object that you can reasonably argue that object does not mean person. It also contains other powers that very specifically state that they move people and not objects. It also has mention of using Move on a person as an example of using force powers outside of their defined boundaries.

Given that there are so many complaints about move being used to simply throw enemies and how game breaking it can be, and how people seem to completely ignore Bind as an alternative to move because it's just way less powerful if you allow Move against people I'm actually kind of coming down on the side of "You can't throw people with Move". It seems to bring the game into balance, and the way the rules are written there is only that one single example in the Encumbrance section where one of the writers used object to refer to a person, while everywhere else they are specific on the difference.

Personally, I think that the word object does include people, however , a the bind ability duplicates the effect of being able to move only people, so this does point to the assumption possibly being correct, however the devs have been clear before on objects including people on occasions before.

For ref https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/230671-the-move-power/

Edit, is actually had a massive typo at the beginning and said I dont think the word object includes people, however I meant the opposite and had started saying I dont think it does not include people, but the wording got a little mixed up while typing. Corrected now.

Page 283, sidebar, last paragraph.

"Likewise, an attempt to use Move to throw a character around a battlefield could be opposed by Resilience, as the defending character resists with his raw physical strength."

All reasonable, except for 2 things.

On page 11 of FaD Core Move is specifically used by one PC on another during an example of play.

On page 283 in the "Resisting Force Power Checks" the very last example given is for a non Force sensitive to use Resilience to resist being thrown around the battlefield.

With those two in mind, also taking into account the "Force Powers and Narrative" side bar, and not to mention the actual source material, I think it's clear that the developers intended Move to be able to be used on living beings.

All reasonable, except for 2 things.

On page 11 of FaD Core Move is specifically used by one PC on another during an example of play.

On page 283 in the "Resisting Force Power Checks" the very last example given is for a non Force sensitive to use Resilience to resist being thrown around the battlefield.

With those two in mind, also taking into account the "Force Powers and Narrative" side bar, and not to mention the actual source material, I think it's clear that the developers intended Move to be able to be used on living beings.

And for additional clarity, go to the Developer-Answered Questions thread and see nearly a dozen questions (with answers) on Move where it says you can use it for "Force Push" or even to levitate/fly. Rules lawyering in this case is pretty pointless.

Yeah, trying to say that Move can't be used on characters (player or non-player) based on the power description using "objects" is a major case of incredibly petty rules lawyering.

I don't think it's petty at all, because the rules of the game actually are a heck of a lot more balanced if you don't allow using it on people. I think insisting that it works on people is just being a Munchkin, because it makes Move into such an impossibly powerful offensive ability that none of the other offensive Force abilities have any reason to even exist anymore.

By allowing players to designate enemies as both targets and objects for move attacks you basically allow them to hit twice as many targets with this power on a basic magnitude activation than they can hit with any other force attack, and move costs half as much XP to train, and is only a FR1 requirement, as opposed to Bind and Unleash which are FR2 and FR3 requirements, and far more expensive powers to both train and activate.

By letting you move people with it you also gain the ability to instantly defeat any opponent who's not capable of flight after you buy the first two range upgrades at 5XP each. Simply move them straight up to long range, that fall is an automatic incapacitation + crit. Meanwhile if you wanted to inflict 30 points of damage with Unleash, which is only equivalent to a fall from medium height, you'd be looking at spending 5 extra force pips just in strength upgrades, assuming you started with a Willpower of 6 and 4 successes on your attack roll. How does it make any sense that Move is oodles more powerful as an offensive measure than both Force Lightning and Force Choke, which are more difficult to learn, require dark side points to fully activate, and go as far as gaining you automatic conflict just for using them at all?

On top of that, if Move works on people it really begs the question: Isn't their head a securely mounted object? I mean surely if I can rip a 100 ton blast door out of the wall I can rip someone's arm off? If you interpret object as simply being anything the player wants then this isn't any worse than being able to instakill any opponent by just throwing them straight up in the air. Just instakill them by pulling their head off. That gimp Vader leveled up Bind, so all he could manage was a little squeeze to the throat, but by just reading the rules to Move a certain way you can outdo him easily. There is nothing in the rules that says I can't use move to rip people's heads off, and then use those heads to inflict 5 damage to someone else. I mean, unless of course you suddenly start insisting that people actually try to uphold the spirit of the game, but pfft, nah.

Bottom line is, if you read object as "anything" there is no reason to ever use another offensive force power. Read through the offensive uses of Protect/Unleash and Bind, and you'll realize that it's utterly absurd to let Move be used in this way. The other offensive powers in the game usually require dark side points and conflict to activate their full potential, and still barely manage a fraction of the damage you can inflict with Move, have none of the other utility of it, and certainly don't allow you to argue that you should be able to straight up kill opponents by just directly manipulating their vital organs or tearing them limb from limb.

I have an houserule for this situation. If you want to hurl one target into another in order to deal damage to both targets, you must activate the magnitude upgrade. The idea is you want to damage 2 targets, everything else is just narrative flair.

Page 283, sidebar, last paragraph.

"Likewise, an attempt to use Move to throw a character around a battlefield could be opposed by Resilience, as the defending character resists with his raw physical strength."

I have an houserule for this situation. If you want to hurl one target into another in order to deal damage to both targets, you must activate the magnitude upgrade. The idea is you want to damage 2 targets, everything else is just narrative flair.

That is how I've been playing it for a long time, just making sure that every opponent that's being damaged has to be accounted for in the magnitude as well as the attack roll. That at least brings it in line with other force attacks on the number of targets it can affect. It's still completely out of control in a lot of other ways.

That's slightly out of context. It's preceeded by text that says that discipline is the default skill to oppose force powers and the gm, at their discretion, could allow other skills if the circumstances warrant it, and the text you quoted is an example of when the situation would allow alternative skills (at the gm's discretion), but the default/primary skill for resisting *ALL* force powers is discipline.

It makes sense to let an opponent use their best plausible defense in an opposed check. For example a Rancor has a willpower of 3 and a a brawn of 6, of course it would always use brawn to defend itself if possible. That said, allowing someone to simply toss a Rancor straight in the air to instakill it is stupid even if you do make it an opposed check.

Bottom line is, if you read object as "anything" there is no reason to ever use another offensive force power. Read through the offensive uses of Protect/Unleash and Bind, and you'll realize that it's utterly absurd to let Move be used in this way. The other offensive powers in the game usually require dark side points and conflict to activate their full potential, and still barely manage a fraction of the damage you can inflict with Move, have none of the other utility of it, and certainly don't allow you to argue that you should be able to straight up kill opponents by just directly manipulating their vital organs or tearing them limb from limb.

OK, the fact that you have to lead off in the title of this thread with "Rules Lawyering" should be the first clue something is wrong here.

Ultimately, what your talking about is doing 10 + successes damage to a target. That is hardly game breaking. A heavy blaster rifle can do that, and it won't get in you [in as much] trouble with the Empire. In fact, the more 'effective' use of the Move power against someone is to use it raise them up to Medium (or <gasp> long!) range, and then drop them for 30 points of damage. One of my players used the threat of this option to get the Bounty Hunter to stop chasing their droid companion (the droid in question upset his former master, who happens to be a Black Sun Vigo).

Compared to Unleash, using move to fling a creature can result in a opposed check rather than a static 2 purple check. Unleash has access to strength upgrades (four total), that can be activated multiple times, so eventually you are getting 4 extra damage per extra FP used in the activation of the power. A high level force user, with a 5 willpower, all four strength upgrades, and four force dice, could be doing 13 + success damage with Unleash, and possibly even more. Of course there is also the mastery power which drops the crit rating to 1. Nothing says "suck" like taking a high level crit in addition to high levels of damage.

Compared to Bind, bind lets you control the target in very powerful ways. Being immobilized doesn't mean you can't move; it means you can't take **maneuvers**. No aiming, no stowing/retrieving gear, no med pack use. Worse is when you use the Duration upgrade and sustain the power on the target. Of course there is also the Mastery upgrade that can possibly stagger the target, or inflict a bad critical. The fact that Bind can also do some damage is more gravy than anything else. Couple this power with the magnitude upgrade, and you can spoil a party's day real fast.

Compared to Harm, Harm bypasses soak, and gets extremely scary in the hands of a character who is skilled at Medicine. Harm also has access to two Strength upgrades, which means the damage can be boosted by 2 points per extra FP used to activate the power.

Unleash and Harm also include the opposite powers Protect and Heal, so you are getting a double benefit from having access to these powers in that you have flexibility.

One final comment here regarding Conflict. Using living beings as weapons with the Move power would probably earn a player conflict in my game, as would raising them up in the air only to let the crash down to earth for bogus amounts of damage. Just because it isn't directly spelled out in the talent description doesn't mean conflict wouldn't apply.

What's the difference between using Move on multiple targets and using Bind/Unleash?

It's the difficulty of the dice roll and it's the obvious use of The Force vs a potentially silent and unseen power

Difficulty:

To throw a single NPC at another NPC, Easy Difficulty Discipline plus anything that would affect a combat check in the same situation.

You then require Success and at least 2FP, Range will be required if anything is beyond Short. Each target suffers 10+Success-their Soak. So 2-3 Force Pips to cause roughly 6-10 damage to 2 NPCs.

To throw multiple NPCs at other NPCs, Average Difficulty Discipline plus anything that would affect a combat check in the same situation

You then require Success and at least 2FP, Range will be required if anything is beyond Short, Magnitude is also required. To successfully throw each individual beyond the first requires 2 Advantage (or a Triumph). The successfully hit targets and thrown NPC's suffer 10+Success-their Soak. So 3+ Force Pips and 10 Advantage to hit 10 NPC's for 6-10 Damage each.

(Edited) To injure a single Bind a target (who is also immobilised):

1 FP does 1 damage at Short range

2FP does 2 Damage

3FP does 3 Damage

4FP does 4 Damage

(Edited) To injure multiple targets of Bind (who are also immobilised):

3 FP does 3 Damage to 4 Targets at Short.

4FP does 4 Damage to 4 Targets at Short

To injure a single target with Unleash:

Succeed on an Average Discipline check then:

With a Crit Rating of 4:

2 FP to cause WP+Success-Soak Damage (probably in the 2-3 range) at Short

3FP to cause WP+4+Success-Soak at Short

4FP to cause WP+8+Success-Soak at Short or WP+Success-Soak at Extreme

To Injure multiple targets with Unleash:

Succeed on an Average Discipline check then:

With a Crit Rating of 4:

3FP to cause WP+Success-Soak Damage (probably in the 2-3 range) to 3 Targets at Short

4FP to cause WP+4+Success-Soak to 3 Targets at Short or WP+Success-Soak to 5 Targets at Short.

To Injure a target with Harm:

1 FP to cause your Intellect+Medicine Ranks in Wounds to the target (2-12, probably 5-6) at Short range.

2FP to cause Intellect+Medicine+2 at Engaged, Int+Med at Medium.

3FP to cause Int+Med+4 at Engaged, Int+Med+2 at Medium, Int+Med at Extreme.

4FP to cause Int+Med+6 at Engaged, Int+Med+4 at Medium, Int+Med+2 at Extreme.

To injure multiple targets with Harm

3FP to cause Int+Med to 4 Engaged targets

4FP to cause Int+Med+2 to 4 Engaged targets or Int+Med to 4 Targets at Medium range.

So the damage ranges certainly vary wildly, with Move causing the most... but also requires the most positive results from the dice pool to affect more than 2 NPC's and has arguably the hardest check due to being subject to combat modifiers such as Defence and Adversary. Bind and Unleash also have some interesting control upgrades to do things other than Damage, which can be useful.

But then there is the whole Narrative side of things, throwing 5 NPCS across the room at their buddies is very very obvious. But using Bind could almost be unseen. Unleash could take many forms, so that's up to your creativity as to how obvious it is or not.

The other big difference is the ultimate potential of each power:

Move is limited by 2 things, Silhouette and the number of Advantage you roll

Bind, Harm and Unleash are really limited only by your Force Rating.

Then finally we come to Conflict. Move doesn't automatically cause conflict, Bind, Harm and Unleash will require at least a single Conflict. But all of them are subject to extra conflict from the Narrative way in which they are used. If you decide to do the old Lift and Drop technique with Move then that's bad... real bad. Just think about the sheer terror going through the individual as you slowly lift them up in the air, then finally the blood curdling screams as they fall to the ground; Unnecessary Force, Torture, Murder? Absolutely, that one act could easily earn over 10 Conflict.

Edited: I got the damage numbers wrong with Bind

Edit 2: My section on Harm didn't make it in, it's there now

Yeah, and it doesn't matter if you're not using Conflict. The raise-and-drop tactic should be a major sign that a character is headed for a fall... if they're not there already. It should be a major event in the narrative sense if somebody does it, unless you're already playing a dark side game.

And if you're doing that, you can probably throw Jedi at them. Jedi who might have the Suppress power. Not all the time, because that's not fun for the players, but if you think they're getting to be too much of a one-trick pony...

There's another reason why throwing one guy into another might not work against active enemies: Actions by default are any activity complex enough to require a skill check, unless something specifically lets you do it as a maneuver or incidental. Picking up a resisting target is a skill check. Targeting a resisting person with a thrown thing is also a skill check. 2 skill checks = 2 actions.

Ultimately, what your talking about is doing 10 + successes damage to a target. That is hardly game breaking. A heavy blaster rifle can do that, and it won't get in you [in as much] trouble with the Empire. In fact, the more 'effective' use of the Move power against someone is to use it raise them up to Medium (or <gasp> long!) range, and then drop them for 30 points of damage. One of my players used the threat of this option to get the Bounty Hunter to stop chasing their droid companion (the droid in question upset his former master, who happens to be a Black Sun Vigo).

You're providing a perfect example of a game breaking use of Moving people right there. Any opponent who drops from long or extreme range is immediately incapacitated, even if it's a Krayt Dragon. Sure, colliding people by far isn't the most overpowered use of Move, but it only starts losing it's advantage when you're talking multiple activations of Magnitude, and at that point there is nothing stopping you from just using those to drop people, which is an instant kill, so the damage potential is still higher than any other force power at half the cost to learn it.

So the damage ranges certainly vary wildly, with Move causing the most... but also requires the most positive results from the dice pool to affect more than 2 NPC's and has arguably the hardest check due to being subject to combat modifiers such as Defence and Adversary. Bind and Unleash also have some interesting control upgrades to do things other than Damage, which can be useful.

The other big difference is the ultimate potential of each power:

Move is limited by 2 things, Silhouette and the number of Advantage you roll

Bind, Harm and Unleash are really limited only by your Force Rating.

You still have to make an attack roll with those powers, as per the sidebar on F&D 283, any enemy who's comparable to a player character in power can compel an opposed check to use a force power against them. There is also nothing stopping you from simply not using the Move attack at all, and instead simply using it to move enemies straight up to long range and dropping them to instant death, at which point advantages become irrelevant, since you're not even making an attack roll, you're making an opposed roll to instantly kill all targeted enemies.

If you rule people as objects the only reason to ever use Move as per the specified attack rules is if there isn't enough space to drop people to their death or if they have such a massive opposed check that it's easier to roll a standard attack vs. the silhouette of the object you're throwing.

Yeah, and it doesn't matter if you're not using Conflict. The raise-and-drop tactic should be a major sign that a character is headed for a fall... if they're not there already. It should be a major event in the narrative sense if somebody does it, unless you're already playing a dark side game.

And if you're doing that, you can probably throw Jedi at them. Jedi who might have the Suppress power. Not all the time, because that's not fun for the players, but if you think they're getting to be too much of a one-trick pony...

Even if you give people huge amounts of conflict every time they use Move to simply instakill an enemy by dropping them it would still be completely broken that the damage potential of Move is hugely superior to the damage potential of Unleash, even for a dark sider.

There is simply no interpretation of the rules where the ability to move people doesn't utterly break the game in terms of being far more lethal than any other force power in existence.

I also find it silly for the GM to try and control ridiculous powergaming by handing out conflict. That's just dancing around the real issue, which is that the second you interpret Move as "move anything you **** well please" there is nothing in the rules that stops it from being used to outright kill people by dropping them to their death or ripping their heads off. No character in canon ever demonstrates the ability to do these kinds of things though, even the ones who don't care about conflict.

There's another reason why throwing one guy into another might not work against active enemies: Actions by default are any activity complex enough to require a skill check, unless something specifically lets you do it as a maneuver or incidental. Picking up a resisting target is a skill check. Targeting a resisting person with a thrown thing is also a skill check. 2 skill checks = 2 actions.

Also an excellent point, but I guess it doesn't stop the worst abuses of reading objects as people, which is simply moving people to places where they will be killed automatically the second you let go.

The GM controls 'ridiculous powergaming' by talking to the "offending" player(s). Explaining to the player(s) your expectations should curb the majority of things like this. Rules do not stop abuses of rules. GM's do.

Lot of TLDR going on in this thread, but was just wondering if anyone had mentioned that clothing is an object...

I mean I know that's beside the RAW/RAI point, and could have implications for those no-pants-wearing species, but...

There are a lot of ways to very easily deal stupid amounts of damage in this system, Move is only one of those. Jury Rigged Autofire is much easier to get, shooting humanoids with Starship weapons is another devastating attack. If your not going to have in game consequences for the actions of your PC's then what's happening in the story? Are the PC's living in a vacuum? Important NPC's should always react to major actions the PC's make;

Steal some priceless art? That Hutt is probably going to try getting it for himself.

Throw a bunch of gangsters at each other using The Force? The Inquisitors will definitely hear about that.

If something is too powerful for your group then talk about it with them, make a House Rule if no one can be trusted to control themselves. But the fact there are clear examples in the rule book of exactly what your trying to say is outlawed makes it rather obvious that the Developers intended this to be a possibility. They have talked on podcasts about it being used this way, they have answered a myriad of players questions too.

I think one of the big issues the OP has with Move being used to throw people around, that everyone else seems to ignore is the fact that Bind specifically has an upgrade that is designed to do exactly that. One of Bind's upgrades specifically covers Force Push and Force Pull by allowing you to move a target (or targets) one range band further or closer. Also, Bind does not inherently give you Conflict.

In my post, I wasn't saying that you should control powergaming with Conflict. I was saying that combat should be part of the narrative, and that actions within combat still serve a narrative purpose. If all a player cares about is doing the most damage, that's a problem with the player, not the system.

And, you know what? I think a darksider who has a somewhat unusual signature attack of lifting someone up and slamming them into the ground is actually pretty cool. (Yes, I know the mechanics say 'dropping,' not 'slamming,' but the better narrative says 'slamming.') They can't use it everywhere (ceilings, other obstacles) or on everyone (opposed checks, Suppress). They're like Autofire Guy—you don't have to let them use their cool signature thing all the time, since it'd destroy combats, but don't take it away completely. When they get to do it, they'll feel really awesome.

And they're easier to control than Autofire Guy. With Autofire Guy, you need to take his gun away. Drop-People Guy's greatest enemy is ceilings.

Ultimately, what your talking about is doing 10 + successes damage to a target. That is hardly game breaking. A heavy blaster rifle can do that, and it won't get in you [in as much] trouble with the Empire. In fact, the more 'effective' use of the Move power against someone is to use it raise them up to Medium (or <gasp> long!) range, and then drop them for 30 points of damage. One of my players used the threat of this option to get the Bounty Hunter to stop chasing their droid companion (the droid in question upset his former master, who happens to be a Black Sun Vigo).

You're providing a perfect example of a game breaking use of Moving people right there. Any opponent who drops from long or extreme range is immediately incapacitated, even if it's a Krayt Dragon. Sure, colliding people by far isn't the most overpowered use of Move, but it only starts losing it's advantage when you're talking multiple activations of Magnitude, and at that point there is nothing stopping you from just using those to drop people, which is an instant kill, so the damage potential is still higher than any other force power at half the cost to learn it. .

You don't need to even be a force user to be game breaking. There are plenty of 6 Brawn Wookie Marauder /Doctors running around using Pressure Point to inflict 13+ strain damage that bypasses soak. And Rodian Gadgetter/Gamblers running around with their light repeater using auto-fire that has been jury rigged so as to score five or six hits per round at 11+ damage a pop. Don't forget the Ataru Hawk Bat Swooping Saber Swarm whirling ball of energy blade death that is hitting with linked and breach. Or auto blasters mounted on Sil 2 swoop bikes that are doing 40+ damage a hit at personal scale. In each of these examples the difficulty to succeed on the attack is in most cases easier than the difficult to succeed on the Move power check, because the Move power check in the example above will be an opposed check when it is against an important rival or nemesis.

My point was to show that other Force Powers can be just as useful and powerful as Move. Using Move is certainly one way to eliminate an enemy, but it is not the only way, and in many cases other methods can be more effective. To suggest that that RAW the Move power does not allow "moving" sentient beings is simply not supported by RAW nor by any commentary by the developers on this power.

This system, like any other, can be abused. To look at any one mechanic in isolation and state "this is broken" ignores the primary nature of this game, and that is a narrative roleplaying game system. Yes, that puts a lot of burden on the GM to adjudicate at times, but the setting of a fight is just as important as the mechanics of the fight. Having the battle go down in a Cosmopolitan shopping district on Corellia is much different than a fight in the desolate, arid, hinterlands of Tatooine.

I think one of the big issues the OP has with Move being used to throw people around, that everyone else seems to ignore is the fact that Bind specifically has an upgrade that is designed to do exactly that. One of Bind's upgrades specifically covers Force Push and Force Pull by allowing you to move a target (or targets) one range band further or closer. Also, Bind does not inherently give you Conflict.

Bind allows for very slow movement of a bound target, it can only be activated once. So it's great for bringing a bound target with you as you stroll the halls of your Death Star, but it's not for throwing people (or Droids) across a coliseum.

Your correct that Bind doesn't inherently give you Conflict, but in the context of dealing Damage to opponents it absolutely does. The requirement to be able to cause damage is to use at least 1 Dark Side Pip

There are a lot of ways to very easily deal stupid amounts of damage in this system, Move is only one of those. Jury Rigged Autofire is much easier to get, shooting humanoids with Starship weapons is another devastating attack. If your not going to have in game consequences for the actions of your PC's then what's happening in the story? Are the PC's living in a vacuum? Important NPC's should always react to major actions the PC's make;

The difference is that a jury-rigged autofire weapon isn't the cheapest, least rare, most legal and lowest encumbrance weapon in the lists. Sure, autofire at 1 advantage is ridiculously powerful, but it doesn't make all other weapons pointless. Even the low quality weapons that no player ever touches exist for a reason, so that you can stat out NPCs that are using sub-standard gear. Those weapons are never three times as expensive as the good ones though.

Also sure, I suppose if your PCs just keep dropping NPCs to their death over and over you can just run a campaign where every enemy ever has a gravity belt because word got around that those are a much better investment than armor which only provides a measly 2 soak and does absolutely nothing against drop-Jedis. It's kind of weird how this never came up in any of the movies or any other canonical or legends source though. There are literally thousands of years worth of Jedi fighting in wars and not a single one realized simply dropping everyone is the most powerful attack there ever was. Armies that fought the Jedi would often equip their troops with prohibitively expensive Cortosis to counter lightsabers, but not a single one ever thought of just making a simple gravity belt standard equipment to counteract the most powerful attack a Jedi can do. Luckily Darth Munch and his kin are here to correct this colossal blunder in Star Wars military tactics.

Bind allows for very slow movement of a bound target, it can only be activated once. So it's great for bringing a bound target with you as you stroll the halls of your Death Star, but it's not for throwing people (or Droids) across a coliseum.

The bind power doesn't say anywhere that the movement is slow, and I honestly can't think of a single example from canon sources where a person was thrown at high speeds over extreme distances resulting in lethal injuries with the force. Every canonical example of a living person being moved with the force falls well within what Bind allows you to do, and I can't think of a single one that falls within what Move allows you to do.

You don't need to even be a force user to be game breaking.

There’s “game breaking” and then there is “ Game Breaking ”. IMO, Move can easily fall into the latter category.

There are plenty of 6 Brawn Wookie Marauder /Doctors running around using Pressure Point to inflict 13+ strain damage that bypasses soak.

I’ve got a Besalisk who is currently doing Two Weapon Combat with a pair of SSB-1 Static Pistols, and does 16+ damage straight to Strain that bypasses Soak. That’s almost enough to take down a Rancor in a single round — I know this, because I came very close to doing that.

Just wait until he gets to the point where my GM and I agree that he should be able to do Four Weapon Combat!

So far, my character has only used the SSB-1 pistols the one time. They just haven’t been that useful otherwise, and I have no interest in breaking the game.

And Rodian Gadgetter/Gamblers running around with their light repeater using auto-fire that has been jury rigged so as to score five or six hits per round at 11+ damage a pop.

My Besalisk currently has a Light Repeating Blaster as his primary weapon. It’s not yet jury-rigged for auto-fire, but it probably will be. Did I mention the number of ranks of True Aim that he has?

But again, I’m going to work to avoid breaking the game. Doing Four Weapon Combat with modified heavy blaster pistols is much more fun and interesting for me, I just have to wait long enough to get the right talents I need to be able to make that happen.

Don't forget the Ataru Hawk Bat Swooping Saber Swarm whirling ball of energy blade death that is hitting with linked and breach.

That can be game breaking, but in my experience it usually doesn’t get to “ Game Breaking ” levels. Since it is a Lightsaber, he’s limited in the number of targets that he can attack at any one time, and he has to get within Engaged range to do so. The Heavy with the jury-rigged autofire rifle is capable of doing more damage, especially when Ataru dude runs into an Inquisitor with Cortosis armor.

Or auto blasters mounted on Sil 2 swoop bikes that are doing 40+ damage a hit at personal scale.

That can easily be “ Game Breaking ”, in the same sense that Move can be.

In each of these examples the difficulty to succeed on the attack is in most cases easier than the difficult to succeed on the Move power check, because the Move power check in the example above will be an opposed check when it is against an important rival or nemesis.

It depends on how you handle Move. RAW does leave some room for interpretation, which is one of the primary problems that I have with it.

If you use a more liberal interpretation, then Move can quickly become very “ Game Breaking ” without a lot of XP being spent on the power.

If you use a more conservative interpretation, you can still get to Starkiller levels of “ Game Breaking ”, but it’s much harder work.

This system, like any other, can be abused. To look at any one mechanic in isolation and state "this is broken" ignores the primary nature of this game, and that is a narrative roleplaying game system. Yes, that puts a lot of burden on the GM to adjudicate at times, but the setting of a fight is just as important as the mechanics of the fight. Having the battle go down in a Cosmopolitan shopping district on Corellia is much different than a fight in the desolate, arid, hinterlands of Tatooine.

There are some areas that I feel GMs should pay particular attention to, in order to help keep things from getting out-of-hand too quickly. The Move power is one of those areas.

So long as the GM and players can work together to keep things reasonable, there’s no problem.

The problem occurs when one side or the other starts getting unreasonable.

Bind only allows you to move your target a single range band per round, that's because the control upgrade can only be activated once per action. So it's 4 turns to take them from Extreme to Engaged.

Move may be cheap to get into, but if you want to be doing anything big with it you have a lot to invest XP in. Your going to want at least Willpower 4, with 3-4 ranks of Discipline to start. Then you need a bare minimum of FR 2 to even reliably move a single target, it's more like a FR of 4 if your trying not to use too many Dark Side pips. Then you need to invest in the power itself, the entire tree is 150xp. Fully utilising Move is not a Beginner PC possibility.

On the contrary Strength 3, Agility 4, 15 XP in Gadgeteer and 1500 starting credits gets you a 6 Damage Jury Rigged Autofire Heavy Blaster Rifle