maybe this way?

ryad, vess, jax?

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v4!s!195:170,-1,-1:33:17:;70:214,-1,-1:33:17:;62:18:5:5:M.15&sn=100-ryad.vess%2Cfel

Something like that, yeah.

The one I've been trying recently is this:

Countess Ryad

--TIE /x7

--Juke

Soontir Fel

--Push the Limit

--Royal Guard TIE

--Stealh Device

--Autothrusters

Turr Phennir

--Veteran Instincts

--Royal Guard TIE

--Stealh Device

--Autothrusters

It's a little less hammer than yours, and a little more scalpel. Ryad is basically a bait ship that does her best to attract tons of attention, but focuses on blocking and dodging more than lining up killer shots. That frees the Squints to circle like sharks.

And, of course, If Ryad is ignored, she's one of the best in the game at getting behind a ship and staying there. If she's not being shot, Juke makes even her smaller hits stick.

This is what I think X-wing has put itself in with the Wave release system.

This is what I think X-wing has put itself in with the Wave release system.

Does not matter how often this gets repeated, it still does not hold a candle in context that the old systems interact with the new systems and the old content gets constantly revised via the ace packs. What X-Wing is to some degree is balanced to be unbalanced.

See:

Does not matter how often this gets repeated, it still does not hold a candle in context that the old systems interact with the new systems and the old content gets constantly revised via the ace packs. What X-Wing is to some degree is balanced to be unbalanced.See:

I find the difference between these two depictions of game design on an evolving game to be very small. Regardless, neither of these views really ensures a better quality game. I could care less about 'balanced unbalance'; who gives a f if some expansion coming out in six months will change things for the better and make my ships competitive again? This sort of thing is not in my interest. Nor does this piling up of expansions immerse me better in the world of Star Wars, that should be mentioned also. And the concept of fun - which, although elusive, is important for a game - is also conspicuously absent from either analysis. In fact, 'perfect imbalance' looks like a strategy devised to destroy my fun in the most efficient way possible.

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just wanted to make the best possible game possible for the people who play the game? What theory is that?

I think Soontir is in a good place right now. Before FFG introduced more ways to auto-damage people he was a bit OP in a palp aces list. You could literally joust with him and not worry about getting hit, whch is not very thematic for an Interceptor. Now he has to worry about flying really well again.

THIS ^^^

Does not matter how often this gets repeated, it still does not hold a candle in context that the old systems interact with the new systems and the old content gets constantly revised via the ace packs. What X-Wing is to some degree is balanced to be unbalanced.See:

I find the difference between these two depictions of game design on an evolving game to be very small. Regardless, neither of these views really ensures a better quality game. I could care less about 'balanced unbalance'; who gives a f if some expansion coming out in six months will change things for the better and make my ships competitive again? This sort of thing is not in my interest. Nor does this piling up of expansions immerse me better in the world of Star Wars, that should be mentioned also. And the concept of fun - which, although elusive, is important for a game - is also conspicuously absent from either analysis. In fact, 'perfect imbalance' looks like a strategy devised to destroy my fun in the most efficient way possible.

Hey, no problem if you don't get the difference. You are not a developer, you don't need to get it. And if those design patterns are not for you, though luck, they are some of the most commercially viable we got and on top just abandoning a product after a good run of sales has become rather unpopular with consumers. Keeping the support and a stream of content for years has become the expectation of customers, which honestly is a shame as it forces developers to stick to projects for years, which is rather boring.

Playing soontir has always been a risk. You just have to hope that your opponent is not using the dozens of counters for him or that you can make up the slack with the rest of your list when you encounter them, which can be more or less common depending on the current meta. If someone really wants to build a list that kills Soontir, there's not much you can do about it.

Playing soontir has always been a risk. You just have to hope that your opponent is not using the dozens of counters for him or that you can make up the slack with the rest of your list when you encounter them, which can be more or less common depending on the current meta. If someone really wants to build a list that kills Soontir, there's not much you can do about it.

The Baron had a pretty good runs with the uboots forcing his counters out of the meta. Now that run is over, guess what, everyone was telling that to the Palp Ace haters. °_^

Here a read on the meta game which is caused by the unbalances in the game and shifts because of the shifts of those within the game.

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.at/2016/12/a-powerful-ally-understanding-metagame.html

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just wanted to make the best possible game possible for the people who play the game? What theory is that?

Seriously though. I understand that you will never reach a nirvana like state of balance in a game with different and customizable pieces unless you used like a 10,000,000 point system, but is there not a theory about doing every bleeping thing to get things as CLOSE to balanced as possible, with things like, say, math and massive amounts of playtesting?

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just wanted to make the best possible game possible for the people who play the game? What theory is that?

Seriously though. I understand that you will never reach a nirvana like state of balance in a game with different and customizable pieces unless you used like a 10,000,000 point system, but is there not a theory about doing every bleeping thing to get things as CLOSE to balanced as possible, with things like, say, math and massive amounts of playtesting?

Yes, sure there is. Take starcraft for example. Removes most of the units to achieve a managament amount of them and afterwards achieves perfect balance with limiting strategies so much that they become all but unimportant and only execution counts anymore. Micromanagement, micromanagement, cpm are king, while strategies are rather unimportant in comparison because the optimal ones are already discovered and the counters and counters to the counters, etc

Chess at the other hand? Having a large library of moves to access from memory is in that case super important, which is again learning the execution and not choosing a winning strategy, because everything has been seen already before.

X-Wing? Berling brings each year a new meta-disturbing list it seems, because we see new option and combos and the meta evolves. ;-)

The game is more beginner friendly and keeps more interesting based on those slight imbalances and the ever evolving meta. And it makes selling a wide variety of ships a piece of cake instead people just happily flying their TIE-Swarm from Wave 1 because that already is the best and everything afterwards is not worth buying. See to posts about ships which are doa and how fun people think that is. ;-)

I think the release schedule is a big design problem. Many of us have been hoping for a wave less a year for awhile. It would make design and development so much easier. But with a new starwars movie out each year it's going the opposite way!

I find it fascinating that Fenn Rau seems to be doing better than Soontir Fel in the current meta. When Fenn was revealed, I was worried that he would be just slightly worse than Soontir. Turns out he is slightly better than Soontir. As always, we can blame X7 defenders for this.

Hopefully FFG will eventually do 3 waves a year. There are now 2 waves with 5 ships, so we are halfway there already.

The obvious solution is for them to release Soontir in a Defender.

The Empire's best pilot deserves the Empire's best starfighter!

When Fenn was revealed, I was worried that he would be just slightly worse than Soontir. Turns out he is slightly better than Soontir. As always, we can blame X7 defenders for this.

If Empire had Attani Mindlink upgrade Soontir would be still playable.

Fell may be a hard sell in the meta right now, but an annoying jax on the other hand may squeeze into some lists

Fell may be a hard sell in the meta right now, but an annoying jax on the other hand may squeeze into some lists

Problem is Jax drops out as easily as Soontir when faced against bombing squads or stressbots.

I think the release schedule is a big design problem. Many of us have been hoping for a wave less a year for awhile. It would make design and development so much easier. But with a new starwars movie out each year it's going the opposite way!

Even more so that movie tie-in ships are released before the wave that they are supposed to come out with so that they can be on par with the movie release. To be fair those should be considered their own special wave. Wave Sequel 1 (which is not a part of Wave 8) and Wave Sequel 2 (which is not a part of wave 10).

I know I'm gunna get hate (it's the closest word I could think of. I know actually hate isn't likely) but i feel people are playing Fel wrong these days. With palp being a thing the SD and Auto isn't needed. Targeting computer has done so much work for me that i can't see me taking it off any tume soon.

Autothrusters + Targeting Computer

Fel is still to be feared but not the teeth lacking version that is popular.

Yes, I tried a targeting computer Soontir and will probably never go back again!

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just wanted to make the best possible game possible for the people who play the game? What theory is that?

Seriously though. I understand that you will never reach a nirvana like state of balance in a game with different and customizable pieces unless you used like a 10,000,000 point system, but is there not a theory about doing every bleeping thing to get things as CLOSE to balanced as possible, with things like, say, math and massive amounts of playtesting?

It's not really a working business model, though. FFG have created the X-Wing game to sell expansion packs but if the game is balanced and remains balanced then there's no need for players to buy expansion packs - their old squad is still perfectly good. FFG's business model for X-Wing is to continually stir the pot to make some ships good and others bad so you have to stop playing the bad ones and buy the good ones, then six months later change it round again so you have to buy new ships. It's on the road to what GW did with 40k but not quite as morale-busting for the people on the wrong end of it because a new squad is a lot cheaper than a new army.

Look at Blood Bowl. Probably the best game GW ever made but they effectively delisted it because it was too balanced and didn't make any money after people had bought their 15 or 16 miniatures that were all they'd ever need.

X-Wing will never be balanced because the strategy is to create a constant flux of imbalance.

When Fenn was revealed, I was worried that he would be just slightly worse than Soontir. Turns out he is slightly better than Soontir. As always, we can blame X7 defenders for this.

If Empire had Attani Mindlink upgrade Soontir would be still playable.

Soontir is playable right now, but you wouldn't use mindlink on Fel anyway(you lose out on the action economy),

I don't think Fenn is better than Fel,

When Fenn was revealed, I was worried that he would be just slightly worse than Soontir. Turns out he is slightly better than Soontir. As always, we can blame X7 defenders for this.

If Empire had Attani Mindlink upgrade Soontir would be still playable.

yeah, was about to say

PTL rau is so horridly underwhelming after having played against so many soontirs. I've got double digit victories against the guy with no loses

but mindlink rau is mildly impressive. With mindlink manny, he can get to near dengaroo status with 3 focus total +/- a focus for target-lock or repositioning. He's far less vulnerable to stress and can actually k-turn/t-roll! He's got the dice and modifiers to stack up against the meta, only real problem is four hull and dice being dice

still havn't lost to one though

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just wanted to make the best possible game possible for the people who play the game? What theory is that?

Seriously though. I understand that you will never reach a nirvana like state of balance in a game with different and customizable pieces unless you used like a 10,000,000 point system, but is there not a theory about doing every bleeping thing to get things as CLOSE to balanced as possible, with things like, say, math and massive amounts of playtesting?

It's not really a working business model, though. FFG have created the X-Wing game to sell expansion packs but if the game is balanced and remains balanced then there's no need for players to buy expansion packs - their old squad is still perfectly good. FFG's business model for X-Wing is to continually stir the pot to make some ships good and others bad so you have to stop playing the bad ones and buy the good ones, then six months later change it round again so you have to buy new ships. It's on the road to what GW did with 40k but not quite as morale-busting for the people on the wrong end of it because a new squad is a lot cheaper than a new army.

Look at Blood Bowl. Probably the best game GW ever made but they effectively delisted it because it was too balanced and didn't make any money after people had bought their 15 or 16 miniatures that were all they'd ever need.

X-Wing will never be balanced because the strategy is to create a constant flux of imbalance.

But I think that even if it was balanced from wave 1 to wave x, players would still buy new releases. With an IP like Star Wars, this is one of the cases where you can actually get away with that. A massive amount of purchses are based on the fact that it is Star Wars, not that expansion X has card Z that makes Pilot Y unstoppable.

Either way, I think whatever tactic FFG is using, it works for the most part and I'm plenty satisfied with it.

i'm gonna mention this, because i think no one has brought it up yet. i'm not saying its good in the meta, just that it can happen.

escorting the new upsilon shuttle, with its co-ordinate action, soontir could potentially get 6 actions in a round.

any upsilon shuttle ( co-ordinate on action bar)

+

soontir fel 27

ptl 3

royal gaurd 0

target comp 2

auto thruster or tie mk2

upsilon activates, co-ordinate soontir

soontir pushes for 2 actions plus an assigned focus

soontir activates, green move, ptl for two more actions and another assigned focus

2 focus, and the choice of 4 of the 5 .... (boost, b-roll, evade, t-lock, and focus action)

it seems pretty good.... he could turtle before activation if you excpect a bump, or reposition before activation, or get all the tokens and end green with an open dial for the next round.

when flown well, with the upsilon, he could be better than ever.