Because it seems like he's only learning about these rules by reading these threads...

I would add, he seems to be first learning of the existence of these rules in this thread, but somehow is not learning the rules no mater how many times patient posters explain them, still insisting on using Warhammer to resolve everything.

That is why I think he is not a troll. He just seem to have difficulties at reading comprehension (both from game manuals, leading him to totally skipping them, and from the forums themselves).

I never Said I make up rules our do my own dont understand why there's not I go you go system bit I use the system it has. I toyed with idea of y wing attacking with both gums but haven't done it

Not ignore upgrade just dont get why i can use only a few types of cards

Sorry my typeing skill are bad just never good at writing. But I can read just fine one thing i love to do is read

I just think xwing so different from any game I ever played and how simple is just dumfoundes me

Like the movement thing why would u move a ship that can't do move u picked out for them

Our how this game had different means for words like movement to me you have to move something to count as a move

And yes I get traget lock and focus and how they work but the juat never help me much as I be lucky to get 2 hits that most of time are avoided

I never Said I make up rules our do my own dont understand why there's not I go you go system bit I use the system it has.

In this case, the reason is "because".

Any game's rules are intended to generate a given 'feel'.

40k is primarily an infantry game - hence no restrictions in direction of movement, or (for a lot of models) arcs of fire.

X-wing is trying to feel like dogfighting, so relatively restricted options for arc of fire, or movement, are key. And - as noted, aircraft (which is what star wars fighters behave like in the films) don't 'stop'.

You pick a move on the dial, and the ship will try to do as much of that move as possible. Whilst (in real life) you pick the model up and put it down at the end of the template, what's actually 'happening' is the ship 'slides' along the template - so if it ends up not being able to be placed where you want it, you slide 'back' along the template until you get to a position you can place it.

Look at it this way:

40k is a mix of chess and dice.

X-wing is a mix of chess, dice, and poker . A part of the game is that you don't know what your opponent is going to do - you have to out-guess them.

In order for that to be meaningful, you need to control the order in which people reveal their 'cards' (the dials) and move, and - because you have chosen a move and 'guessed wrong', you can sometimes be forced to do something you don't want to do (like do part of a move and bump into someone).

If you look for something with taking turns, Star Wars Armada or Star Wars Imperial Assault might be something for you. Both are heavier on rules than X-Wing, just so that you're warned.

I never Said I make up rules our do my own

No you did.

When you said you don't think a 0 stop is a maneuver, and don't take stress from it.

When you said you don't use bumping, and just ignore any manoeuvre that would bump.

When you said you ignore the restrictions on what weapons you can use and fire each round.

When you implied that you ignore stress's impact on actions.

When you said you ignore pilot skill and just use IGOUGO.

Whenever you do something that is different from the rulebook/cards, you have ignored the rules and made up your own in their place. ANd I'd assume that there are a lot more rules you 'don't get' and therefore don't use, but we just haven't happened across them yet whilst trying to patiently teach you how to play the game basically from the ground up.

The answer to EVERY question you've asked is 'because those are the rules of the game you've decided to ignore'. I mean, if you were going to play chess, would you start rolling dice and moving all your pawns in 6-inch increments because you're used to playing 40k?

Or to put it another way, if a new player came to your 40k group and sat down and said "I just don't get it, why can your general move that far? He's a king, he should only be able to move one square in any direction. Why aren't your knights moving in L shapes? Why can your guys SHOOT each other things can only kill others things when they're adjacent" and then justified it by saying that it's stupid how 40k isn't like Chess...

Wouldn't that irritate you? How would you treat that guy?

Games have different rules for a whole mess of reasons. If you want them all to have the same rules as 40k, you are SoL.

One thing its important to remember is that warhammer and 40k, dont use ugo/igo because its a *good* system

They are just too entrenched in it to change.

Warhammer and similar games were written in the 80s by people brought up on traditional historical wargames, which borrowed the ugo / igo thing from chess and board games.(and to a degree 'kriegspiel', 'little wars' and traditional military theory wargaming)

Nobody had a better system really at the time and 'ugo/igo' allowed people to quickly get there head around GW games.

GW know now that this is massively dated and have started experimenting with different turn based activation. I know when i was at GW I played games of 40k with Andy Chambers and the like where we activated units one at a time and placed activation tokens by them. That was in and around 2002.

The problem is it is a huge company and swapping the turn sequence in the core games to a more sensible one would aienate a lot of players. Expect to see a lot of new games and revamps of specialist games use different turn sequences though.

Bear in mind the reason GW got rid of polyhedral dice was to make the games more accessible. The logic was that every family had six sided dice in the house in games like monopoly and understood the concept and had them to hand. They didnt just use 6 sided dice because its 'better'... its actually worse as your varibles are really limited and a d10 system of warhammer/40k is actually theoretically better... it was done to make it accessible.

Ugo/Igo is *terrible* but especially so in 40k. A classic scenario for years was the 'close combat army' (say space wolves or tyranids) versus the 'shooty' army (say tau or guard). With ugoigo the game often came down to who got first turn.

if you were the close combat army you could probably close with my shooty army and roll me over in close combat if you got first turn as you had one less turn to 'weather' incoming fire... once you hit my line it was all over.

Convesely if i had the shooty army and got first turn I had a full two turns to blow the snot out of your army and break it before it got to me. I was also able to fire one unit at a time and concentrate fire, destroy a unit and move on.

Thats neither a good nor realistic game mechanic.

Xwing uses abstracts in 2d to represent a 3d environment... when you are 'blocked' by a low PS ship you dont phystically run into them and stop.. it represents your pilot realising there isnt room for manouvre and hurriedly pulling up or diving down.. losing forwards thrust for height change and also losing his target.

And stuff like that.

Am dont get our carry for a PS order movement it should be you go I go and all combat is treated as being done at same time so say I move first then opposition then I shoot any ships killed stay on table my opposition shoots all killed ship are now removed and we go to next turn

You might want to stick with ANYTHING GW makes and pretend they are space ships (even the ones that are).

Designers have been trying for years to get away from I go - You go, so that you actually have to try to win rather than just pushing your stuff across the board at each other and dropping 2 pounds of dice on the table. Even in GW's system, if your stuff is dead it goes away, it doesn't stay until you get another go.

Or, fly Fel's Wrath, that's his pilot ability... but even with Royal Guard Tie, Shield Upgrade and Hull Upgrade (for the points) a 30 point game might be fun but after a while someones going to bring 2 prototype A-Wings and ruin your fun...

I never Said I make up rules our do my own dont understand why there's not I go you go system bit I use the system it has. I toyed with idea of y wing attacking with both gums but haven't done it

Not ignore upgrade just dont get why i can use only a few types of cards

Sorry my typeing skill are bad just never good at writing. But I can read just fine one thing i love to do is read

I just think xwing so different from any game I ever played and how simple is just dumfoundes me

Like the movement thing why would u move a ship that can't do move u picked out for them

Our how this game had different means for words like movement to me you have to move something to count as a move

And yes I get traget lock and focus and how they work but the juat never help me much as I be lucky to get 2 hits that most of time are avoided

You can only use a few types of cards because each ship is limited in its role. A Y-Wing can equip a turret because it is primarily used as a turreted ship. If you watch Star Wars, you'll see no turrets on an X-Wing - so it wouldn't make sense to be able to equip any card you felt like.

The number and type of upgrade slots that a ship has are representative of what that ship does and what makes it different than every other ship. Same with Elite Pilots, only they can equip Elite cards to represent their exceptional skill above the generic pilots. And all these upgrade cards, regardless of type, have a points cost associated with them in an attempt to balance the match-ups and make them as fair as possible for both sides.

Its all comes down to the game being thematic. If you're confused as to why certain ships have certain upgrade slots, just look at the movie (or wherever the ship originated) equivalent and it will make sense.

I'm not sure what you're referring to about the maneuvers, but I assume you are talking about the Lambda Shuttle's '0-speed Stop' maneuver. Which thematically, to me, represents reverse thrusters kicking in to slow the ship's movement almost to a standstill. Which can have various benefits, but the most obvious of which is keeping the shuttle out of the fight; either to protect Palpatine on-board or to wait for a more opportune moment to move forward.

There are also various effects that will make your ships move in ways you don't want them to;

1) If your ship is ionized you must do a straight 1 maneuver next turn - which represents the engine shutting down/getting scrambled temporarily by the electronically-charged attack of an ion cannon.

2) If your ship is hit by a tractor beam your opponent will choose a 1-straight or 1-bank maneuver that your ship must make. Obviously if you have seen A New Hope, you know why a ship would react this way to a tractor beam.

That's all I've got for now. I do hope that helps you in some way because (and I mean no offence to you), it is a quite hard to understand what you are asking a lot of the time due to the typos/spelling errors - but you've explained that, so that's fine. I'm just saying I hope that at least somewhat addressed what you were asking here.

Man, the forums sure are much nicer now that Paragoomba is gone........

Man, the forums sure are much nicer now that Paragoomba is gone........

Too soon man, too soon.

I guess my biggest problem is I come from a rules heavy background round with many unclear rules and with many different interpretation on how they work I have spent much of my game time fighting over rules and there meaning our how they meant to be playey.

That's why I never got I to flame of war after reading rules am like do I want another 40k style game I said no

Then I found xwing and just can't get my head around it with it small rules

Like I look at ship movement as moving what I had on my dial and not to bump in to ships as I feel that not what disgener wanted ships crashing In to each other

And o stop movement is not movement because u not move butt I guess that my interpretation of movement is to move what ur fail say our you dont move

After going over rules many times and watching many videos I dont think this game for me as my interpretation of the rules is so different then ever one else.

After going over rules many times and watching many videos I dont think this game for me as my interpretation of the rules is so different then ever one else.

If you have problems reading a 6 page core manual and understanding it, I cannot recommend you to stick with this game.

Every expansion pack comes with several cards, each of them is a new rule you must be able to read and understand.

You can always just go pew pew with the plastic ships. But I guess, for that you could get just micromachines or whatever is the toy brand nowadays.

After going over rules many times and watching many videos I dont think this game for me as my interpretation of the rules is so different then ever one else.

If you do want to try it one more time, perhaps the following would work.

Throw out ALL of your assumptions, interpretations, and beliefs about the game, and start from scratch. Set down an X-wing and a TIE fighter. Open the 'learn to play' rulebook (download it from the FFG website if you don't have it), and go through it step by step. Don't try to interpret it, just do EXACTLY as the rules say. If it seems unclear, read it again, look at the table, read it again, and try to do exactly as it says.

The learn to play guide takes you through everything step by step, so just go through it exactly and it should make sense.

Am sorry but it so hard for me to not to Do them things when I learning a game I do them things as I trying to understand what and how they want me to play

Am sorry but it so hard for me to not to Do them things when I learning a game I do them things as I trying to understand what and how they want me to play

I hope you never try driving. It sounds like if hit something that may be a little bit confusing you're an accident waiting to happen.

If you can't "unlearn what you have learned" then you'd better make darn sure that you have someone who knows what they are doing to teach you everything.

Am sorry but it so hard for me to not to Do them things when I learning a game I do them things as I trying to understand what and how they want me to play

I hope you understand why people are frustrated with trying to help you. "I want to try a new game but I'm going to ignore anything that's not how the old game worked". Well, if that's the case then why not stick with the old game?

If a musician tried learning a new tune by only playing the notes from the old tune do you think he'd manage it?

Then I found xwing and just can't get my head around it with it small rules

Like I look at ship movement as moving what I had on my dial and not to bump in to ships as I feel that not what disgener wanted ships crashing In to each other

And o stop movement is not movement because u not move butt I guess that my interpretation of movement is to move what ur fail say our you dont move

Zero movement for a dial can represent a space ship doing all kinds of things, for example: stopping, pilot scratching nose, accidentally took their foot off the thrusters, waiting on the enemy for the pilot to react to, going vertical (ie doing a 3d movement that cannot be represented on the 2d tabletop), flying in circles.

With regards to bumping / crashing into each other - do not think of it like this (since they would be space-dust if they did crash...), you could think of it as two ships flying around each other on the spot (think WW1/2 dogfight style, you know, how Lucas wanted it iirc) in the same area going up down, left right, backwards forwards, round and round in their 3D bubble of space that can't be represented by physical miniatures on a flat tabletop. They aren't crashing, they are flying around each other and neither are getting the hit on the other. Use your imagination, watch some Star Wars again. Personally, I doubt "Crashing" into each other is what the designer had in mind - except maybe in the case of A-Wing versus Star Destroyer's bridge.

I've written a few replies to these threads and deleted them all... but these at least these particular queries don't make feel like I've been trolled.

These threads need a Yoda quote.