Really is a bummer to hear. I've been a big fan of Team Covenant, being nowhere near Tulsa I was hoping for Armada coverage from large events like they do with X-wing, Conquest (RIP), Netrunner, Star Wars LCG, various other games, and now I'm assuming Destiny in the future. They covered the finals match last year from Worlds, but that's the only Armada video they have done. From my interactions with them it appears their disinterest is also partly due to the fact none of the staff play the game (maybe only a few games between them all), where they play almost all the others, some even competitively. While that is their business choice to make, it does disappoint me.

This post will not help this store pick up Armada again.

Well it sounds very much like they are happy with that and the community has a right to know that.

Clearly there is a gap in the market for a different store nearby. Time to focus on a potential community base.

It's fine and dandy for a store to say they don't want to run Armada events. It sucks for sure. It will drive Armada players to a new store where they can accumulate. But to attack said game store for not hosting the events you want is petty and selfish.

I think that you are missing the key, which is that he paid for an implied service that they did not supply. Not doing Armada is not what he is complaining about. He is complaining about saying that they would do Armada (or implying it), taking his money on the understanding (implied) that they would do Armada, not doing Armada, and not refunding said money.

Here is my issue. SoonerTed is claiming Team Covenant did not uphold the implied promise that there would be events for Armada. So I decided to dig into Team Covenant, as I still have no clue who they are. Under their calender, there are rules for league play, and I found a PDF.

SonnerTed is implying that Armada is not being supported by Team Covenant, "It's also pretty dishonest for them to say they ever supported Armada events since they haven't had one in the last 6 months."

Do you want to guess what I found in the PDF? Prizes for Armada for playing League. Achievements for Armada for playing League. They even have a seperate section for Armada saying the League format is altered because the games take longer. There is a Star Wars League night, where you come play Star Wars games, which includes Armada.

From what I have gathered, Team Covenant does indeed support Armada, or at least attempts to. If there is no community, which I do not know, it is hard to support a game. But all evidence aims towards Team Covenant supporting Armada.

SoonerTed also makes the comment that he is "annoyed by the dishonest bait-n-switch (free entry into events was the biggest selling point of their so-called $15/month "membership")"

To be a part of the Armada League, you must have a membership. There is no bait-n-switch if you have to be a member to play in the league, which is a form of an Armada event. Also, claiming the membership is a bait-n-switch is false because the company said "While our memberships do get you discounts on particular events, that was never intended to be the primary benefit or focus of membership. Ultimately, a membership is entry into our league system for all of our games."

And yet SoonerTed is upset he did not get the discounts, which Team Covenant said is not the primary reason for the membership.

What irritates me so much about the structure of this, was SoonerTed says "I don't recommend them to any one purchasing locally or online."

This literally blows my mind. He is upset he has to pay for a membership to play at a store that clearly attempts to support an Armada league. And when he doesn't get to use his free pass into a tournament, he has the gall to tell everyone they should not spend any money at Team Covenant. He can play other games there, and go to other events. There are too many holes in his argument for me to be convinced he is the victim. And we are taking this at face value. I don't like to assume there are alterior motives when people post negative topics, which I would consider this to be in regards to Armada losing another home, and SoonerTed saying a Team Covenant is essentially garbage.

I'll be the first to say my argument is not 100% either. I can't check the calender past November, but perhaps in the past 6 months they have not held a tournament, and they are not holding one in the future. SoonerTed has a point there. Team Covenant has not held a tournament recently. But there are no Store Championships this circuit because FFG has changed the schedule. As far as I know, Store Championship kits never went out (the Store Champ page for Armada was last updated 2-22-16), so Team Covenant could never actually hold a Store Championship tournament. Honestly, I'm surprised they aren't holding a regionals tournament. I'm not sure about the seasonal kit tournaments, but I haven't seen anyone talk about them much.

If there is not a community to play Armada at Team Covenant, I can understand SoonerTeds frustration. But considering the points I made above, it is his own fault for not cancelling his membership earlier if that were the case (tournament information is not hidden from us on FFGs website). To play there, you have to be a member. But, and this is a big but, if there is a community there, SoonerTed really has no right to complain he is not getting his monies worth for his membership, since you need one to play league. There are so many people on these forums who do not get to play weekly, or even monthly, and to have the store actually hold a legitemate league with prizes and even achievements for playing the game. I can't make the call if there is a community there or not, so SoonerTed will have to tell us.

I know I am being incredibly stubborn and dismissive of SoonerTeds post. But I stand by what I have said. We only have one side of the story, and from my perspective, it does not qualify for anyone to be this disrespectful to a store that has easily one of the most impressive league set ups for Armada. I do agree it sucks that this store is leaving the Armada scene, but that is their choice. They do not want to be a part of our community, and I am sure FFG Michael Gernes will have something to say about that (he is in this thread as I have been typing this. I have a picture to prove it if you want to see).

I want Armada to grow. I want this community to be great. But I cannot see how bashing a store will achieve that, espcially one with ties to FFG. It would be the equivalent of saying you will never buy anything from a FLGS because they don't have a 20% markdown like Amazon does. How does that help the store support Armada? Why would a store hold a tournament, when they have yet to sell Armada merchandise?

So there is my opinion on the matter.

The one time I ordered from them, some tokens and ship movement templates for x-wing, they were very fast shipping and responsive in their email. Really over the top friendly.

If it was him and ten other guys bugging them to run a tournament over a period of 6 months and they never did, then there is a problem. If he paid his dues and said nothing cept for the one email when he was told Armada just doesn't happen there, it really isn't the stores fault. Show up to open gaming night, play the games that do get played, make friends, talk people into playing armada. It's how it's done. A store can only do so much to get play groups going and covenant seems to go way beyond most.

Proof FFG Michael Gernes heard your plea SoonerTed. Hopefully things will be set in order.

This post will not help this store pick up Armada again.

Well it sounds very much like they are happy with that and the community has a right to know that.

Clearly there is a gap in the market for a different store nearby. Time to focus on a potential community base.

It's fine and dandy for a store to say they don't want to run Armada events. It sucks for sure. It will drive Armada players to a new store where they can accumulate. But to attack said game store for not hosting the events you want is petty and selfish.

I think that you are missing the key, which is that he paid for an implied service that they did not supply. Not doing Armada is not what he is complaining about. He is complaining about saying that they would do Armada (or implying it), taking his money on the understanding (implied) that they would do Armada, not doing Armada, and not refunding said money.

Here is my issue. SoonerTed is claiming Team Covenant did not uphold the implied promise that there would be events for Armada. So I decided to dig into Team Covenant, as I still have no clue who they are. Under their calender, there are rules for league play, and I found a PDF.

SonnerTed is implying that Armada is not being supported by Team Covenant, "It's also pretty dishonest for them to say they ever supported Armada events since they haven't had one in the last 6 months."

Do you want to guess what I found in the PDF? Prizes for Armada for playing League. Achievements for Armada for playing League. They even have a seperate section for Armada saying the League format is altered because the games take longer. There is a Star Wars League night, where you come play Star Wars games, which includes Armada.

From what I have gathered, Team Covenant does indeed support Armada, or at least attempts to. If there is no community, which I do not know, it is hard to support a game. But all evidence aims towards Team Covenant supporting Armada.

SoonerTed also makes the comment that he is "annoyed by the dishonest bait-n-switch (free entry into events was the biggest selling point of their so-called $15/month "membership")"

To be a part of the Armada League, you must have a membership. There is no bait-n-switch if you have to be a member to play in the league, which is a form of an Armada event. Also, claiming the membership is a bait-n-switch is false because the company said "While our memberships do get you discounts on particular events, that was never intended to be the primary benefit or focus of membership. Ultimately, a membership is entry into our league system for all of our games."

And yet SoonerTed is upset he did not get the discounts, which Team Covenant said is not the primary reason for the membership.

What irritates me so much about the structure of this, was SoonerTed says "I don't recommend them to any one purchasing locally or online."

This literally blows my mind. He is upset he has to pay for a membership to play at a store that clearly attempts to support an Armada league. And when he doesn't get to use his free pass into a tournament, he has the gall to tell everyone they should not spend any money at Team Covenant. He can play other games there, and go to other events. There are too many holes in his argument for me to be convinced he is the victim. And we are taking this at face value. I don't like to assume there are alterior motives when people post negative topics, which I would consider this to be in regards to Armada losing another home, and SoonerTed saying a Team Covenant is essentially garbage.

I'll be the first to say my argument is not 100% either. I can't check the calender past November, but perhaps in the past 6 months they have not held a tournament, and they are not holding one in the future. SoonerTed has a point there. Team Covenant has not held a tournament recently. But there are no Store Championships this circuit because FFG has changed the schedule. As far as I know, Store Championship kits never went out (the Store Champ page for Armada was last updated 2-22-16), so Team Covenant could never actually hold a Store Championship tournament. Honestly, I'm surprised they aren't holding a regionals tournament. I'm not sure about the seasonal kit tournaments, but I haven't seen anyone talk about them much.

If there is not a community to play Armada at Team Covenant, I can understand SoonerTeds frustration. But considering the points I made above, it is his own fault for not cancelling his membership earlier if that were the case (tournament information is not hidden from us on FFGs website). To play there, you have to be a member. But, and this is a big but, if there is a community there, SoonerTed really has no right to complain he is not getting his monies worth for his membership, since you need one to play league. There are so many people on these forums who do not get to play weekly, or even monthly, and to have the store actually hold a legitemate league with prizes and even achievements for playing the game. I can't make the call if there is a community there or not, so SoonerTed will have to tell us.

I know I am being incredibly stubborn and dismissive of SoonerTeds post. But I stand by what I have said. We only have one side of the story, and from my perspective, it does not qualify for anyone to be this disrespectful to a store that has easily one of the most impressive league set ups for Armada. I do agree it sucks that this store is leaving the Armada scene, but that is their choice. They do not want to be a part of our community, and I am sure FFG Michael Gernes will have something to say about that (he is in this thread as I have been typing this. I have a picture to prove it if you want to see).

I want Armada to grow. I want this community to be great. But I cannot see how bashing a store will achieve that, espcially one with ties to FFG. It would be the equivalent of saying you will never buy anything from a FLGS because they don't have a 20% markdown like Amazon does. How does that help the store support Armada? Why would a store hold a tournament, when they have yet to sell Armada merchandise?

So there is my opinion on the matter.

You clearly do not know of what you speak. They have informal league play, but ZERO organized play events, and ZERO tournaments. Contrast this with the once-per-month tournaments for Netrunner, GoT LCG, and the occasional tournament for Star Wars LCG.

Are you saying they couldn't request a store championship kit for the upcoming season, so therefore I couldn't be upset at their decision to not participate? Zach told me in person last night that they weren't even going to attempt to participate this coming season.

You also were not there when I was sold on my membership. What Zach states in his response was not how the membership was sold - the key financial benefit that was to me sold on getting free entry into organized events that happen on Saturdays. Of course Zach is going to say that isn't the primary reason *NOW*, but that's not how it was sold to me when I signed up.

A "League Night" where people can informally play games (that is if you can find someone to play with on that night) and get some points toward an alt-art card is not an Armada Event. It is not an Armada event in the way that there are regular tournaments scheduled on other Saturdays for other league games.

You are the one misstating the facts here. They will not be supporting Armada AT ALL in January. They have not had any tournaments in 6 months. It is not unreasonable that when I tell them my only game is Armada, and they say OH BY THE WAY EVENTS ARE FREE WITH A MEMBERSHIP.

Sure, I could have played other games, if I had an interest. But that's not really the point here is it?

I've also had other issues with the store, such as refusing to tell me I was confirmed for the Destiny Pre-Launch event until I showed up that day. What kind of retailer refuses to answer a business phone during posted business hours?

So yes, I am going to recommend people spend their money at other shops over Team Covenant.

*I still don't see why you keep bringing up my discussions of FFG raising prices into this. FFG raised prices, and they had every right to do so. I criticized the manner in which they publicly discussed the price increase. This really has nothing to do with my experience with TeamCovenant.

**If you live near Tulsa, I can recommend some quite excellent game shops, but Team Covenant isn't on that list.

The one time I ordered from them, some tokens and ship movement templates for x-wing, they were very fast shipping and responsive in their email. Really over the top friendly.

If it was him and ten other guys bugging them to run a tournament over a period of 6 months and they never did, then there is a problem. If he paid his dues and said nothing cept for the one email when he was told Armada just doesn't happen there, it really isn't the stores fault. Show up to open gaming night, play the games that do get played, make friends, talk people into playing armada. It's how it's done. A store can only do so much to get play groups going and covenant seems to go way beyond most.

Well this looks like a swamp of a topic....

So the point that just well .. really stuck out to me in all of this was the bit saying that Armada games take too long?

Like seriously?!?! Do these people not play other games? A Flames of War round is pretty much the same time length and that game has been around with tournament play forever. I mean seriously, not everyone wants to just play an hour length game.

I totally get that X-Wing is what it is and card games as well for their short play but that ain't for everybody just like Armada isn't for everyone either. Still has an environment for gaming, excluding Armada just doesn't seem like a good move, no matter the reason.

So I'll say that while I was reading the OP, I was squarely on the Ted-is-just-hurt side of the fence. I didn't really pick up on the important piece, which is that he's been paying them for six months for a service that was delayed, and delayed, and then *POOF!* "sorry we're not supporting that anymore."

From an outside perspective, and with the very large caveat that we only have one side of the story, that does seem like a pretty sh*tty move that really should have resulted in a refund of his membership fees. And he certainly sounds justified in posting a warning to other players about the situation.

The one time I ordered from them, some tokens and ship movement templates for x-wing, they were very fast shipping and responsive in their email. Really over the top friendly.

If it was him and ten other guys bugging them to run a tournament over a period of 6 months and they never did, then there is a problem. If he paid his dues and said nothing cept for the one email when he was told Armada just doesn't happen there, it really isn't the stores fault. Show up to open gaming night, play the games that do get played, make friends, talk people into playing armada. It's how it's done. A store can only do so much to get play groups going and covenant seems to go way beyond most.

I actually have been asking and and bugging for months now. I had hoped with the new Corellian Campaign Organized Play, they would do that. Maybe that makes me a sucker. But they always talked a good game with Armada but never delivered.

But are there 10 guys or even 6 guys that go there that want to play armada? If they have players and just dropped it, it kind of sucks, if you're the only one wanting to play, it is understandable. Was the store membership only for armada or was it for all the games and you choose not to play anything other than armada which they had no events for? I am not sure a membership makes sense for only one game. This really sounds like they dropped a game with little interest and replaced it with Destiny which has tons of interest.

Basically I think it's reasonable to be upset, but it's probably also reasonable for them to have done what they did. Sometimes life sucks.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I sent them a message today, asking them why they never host Armada events despite supporting it in their league play.

Will you be running any Armada Organized Play events such as this? https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/10/25/join-the-corellian-campaign/

I asked last night about an Armada Store Championship event and was told you wouldn't be running one. This is extremely disappointing as I thought you supported this game as evidenced by that you include it in your league play.

I am looking forward to playing in an organized play event like the Corellian Campaign.

I have a membership with your store, but I have yet to see any events for Armada. I am not seeing value in it currently if I get no entry fees waved as you don't host events in my primary interest.

Please let me know if you plan to host any Armada Organized Play events. I was under the impression when I paid for my membership that this game was supported. It is listed in your league play, therefore it is reasonable to think Organized Play events would be part of that. (You have Organized Play for your other leagues, just not Armada).

If Armada is not supported at your store as I was your website led me to believe, it will may be time for me to re-evaluate my membership.

This was their response.

I understand your disappointment, particularly if Armada is your primary game. While our memberships do get you discounts on particular events, that was never intended to be the primary benefit or focus of membership. Ultimately, a membership is entry into our league system for all of our games.

Unfortunately, Armada is not well suited for tournaments or events due to the game length. This has made it particularly difficult for us to host tournaments or events. We love Armada, but it really just doesn't fit into our league or event capabilities. For this reason, we have decided to stop supporting Armada through our league and events starting in January. (emphasis added)

While we definitely appreciate you being a member, we completely understand if our lack of support for Armada makes a membership with us less interesting for you. If you'd like to cancel your membership, you can do so in store any time or just let me know here and I can get you squared away.

If you have any questions, please let me know. All the best,

Zach

So not only am I annoyed by the dishonest bait-n-switch (free entry into events was the biggest selling point of their so-called $15/month "membership"), we have official word that one of the bigger FFG mouthpiece stores has completely abandoned Armada. It's also pretty dishonest for them to say they ever supported Armada events since they haven't had one in the last 6 months.

It's also quite disingenuous for them to say it's about game length. On most nights they have plenty of empty tables.

Craptacular. To add insult to injury they never answer their phones, nor return phone messages. I have to actually drive there to cancel. I don't recommend them to any one purchasing locally or online.

Edit: They did finally cancel my membership without me having to go into the store.

Sounds like a totally necessary post to whine and complain on the forum for a personal customer service issue. Discontinue your membership if you are not satisfied and move on. If it took you half a year to figure your not getting your money's worth, that is your fault.

The one time I ordered from them, some tokens and ship movement templates for x-wing, they were very fast shipping and responsive in their email. Really over the top friendly.

If it was him and ten other guys bugging them to run a tournament over a period of 6 months and they never did, then there is a problem. If he paid his dues and said nothing cept for the one email when he was told Armada just doesn't happen there, it really isn't the stores fault. Show up to open gaming night, play the games that do get played, make friends, talk people into playing armada. It's how it's done. A store can only do so much to get play groups going and covenant seems to go way beyond most.

I actually have been asking and and bugging for months now. I had hoped with the new Corellian Campaign Organized Play, they would do that. Maybe that makes me a sucker. But they always talked a good game with Armada but never delivered.

This really sounds like they dropped a game with little interest and replaced it with Destiny which has tons of interest.

That is a valid point, though not the reason Zach listed for bailing on Armada.

As someone who works customer service for a living, there's a small part of me that hates you a little. It probably easier for them to cite game length, as that's a provable issue. Citing the issue of there not being enough players inevitably leads to the "Well one time on x date there were seven of us" anecdote.

Again, it sucks and I get that it's frustrating, but c'est la vie.

Here are my last thoughts on the matter. I could sit and argue all day, but I prefer to present an argument and let the readers come to their own conclusion.

We have an emotional argument (I got burned on this membership because I never got to use it) that is being used as leverage to get the Armada community to support a boycott of a store. This is what I am seeing presented to us in the OP. IMO, what we actually have is an angry customer that found out his investment will not do anything in the upcoming year, and realized he did not get value in it over the past 6 months. This is paried with, yet seperate, of the fact Team Covenant is leaving the Armada scene.

Let me reitterate that to you.

1. Angry customer says the store did not uphold promise.

2. The store is leaving the Armada community.

This post is tying these 2 points into 1 so we will boycott the store. It is very easy to jump on the bandwagon of hate because we all know what it feels like to get burned on a deal.

But let's look at the facts. Over the past 6 months, Team Covenant has not held an Armada tournament, and will not hold a Store Championship. Well, there are no Store Championships this cycle. There are only seasonal kits and Regionals. It is likely Team Covenant made the choice to get out of Armada, so they did not sign up for a Regionals kit. And in my experience, the best way to get a seasonal kit tournament is for the players to go to the store and say "Hey, we want tot run this kit. We have our own TO, so you guys just buy the kit and we pay you $10 to play at your store. We have X people interested now, and we will post on FB/Twitter/etc. we are having a tournament."

Let's compare this to the past 6 months for me. I moved to RTP on July 1st. Since then, there has been 2 tournaments. 1 was organized by the wonderful Caldias. The second was Regionals, which is up to the store to hold or not. Clearly 2 is more than 0, but if Team Covenant decided to leave Armada, there was never going to be a Regionals. And the community organized another one.

So my questions to you, SoonerTed:

1. On average, how many people show up to play Armada on League night?

2. Have you ever asked the store to run a seasonal kit?

3. Do you and the other Armada players buy Armada stuff at the store, or do you buy it online? Are you supporting Armada sales at the store?

I will admit I was wrong to say you can't feel cheated from your investment in the store. That is a subjective feeling, and you clearly feel that way. I, on the other hand, would gladly pay $15 for a league with prize support just for playing at the store.

I have nothing else to say on the matter. I've made my case and will be moving on. Hopefully to another wave 5 article.

I do understand SoonerTed's feelings on this issue, however I would disagree with his strategy on how to handle this.

In my FLGS Armada was in decline and through my own effort I have worked to arrest and reverse this decline. I have working wwith the store owner made Thursday's Armada night and while we do not get as many players as I would like we regularly have 4 or more players coming to the store. To drum up interest I have taken to streaming these games on FB using my iPad as a lazy man's twitch stream. Not sure how many people watch but I hope it increases interest.

I have also taken over running the store tournaments and scheduling them out on a regular basis. This does mean that I have not played in the last 3 events as we had an even number but I hope this builds the community up further and at regionals I was really happy with the turn out from Gigabites alone with at least 6 Giga players attending. Anyway I hope this offer constructive suggestions to those who face similar situations and want to help develop the community.

(And while I would possibly undermine the positivity of the above post I would 100% disagreed with Team Covenant's complaint about Armada having run and participated and run numerous Warhammer events 2 hours 30 minute games with 3 rounds are perfectly fine for running an event. If you don't want to do it don't but be honest.)

Meh, a point was made.

Counterpoints were made.

Seems like a mess.

Perhaps we can all move on now?

Soon we will have a new article and this will all blow over in the bliss of the Arquitens.

I just started playing Armada, I am in OKC about 1.5 hours away from Tulsa. None of the stores in OKC host regionals and Team Covenant, as one of the premiere FFG stores, does. I went to the Regional calendar and saw no stores in Oklahoma was hosting a regional, I was disappointed, now I see TC is moving away from it completely - that sucks. I assume it's too late to sign a store up for regionals, might be able to talk HQ into adding it.

I will say I have played at several X-Wing tournaments in TC and have never had a bad experience. The guys have came down to OKC for tournaments and they are all really great guys.

not surprised that this happened do you, i mean they used to recast models from a different company and resell the counter fits.

not surprised that this happened do you, i mean they used to recast models from a different company and resell the counter fits.

What?!

The one time I ordered from them, some tokens and ship movement templates for x-wing, they were very fast shipping and responsive in their email. Really over the top friendly.

If it was him and ten other guys bugging them to run a tournament over a period of 6 months and they never did, then there is a problem. If he paid his dues and said nothing cept for the one email when he was told Armada just doesn't happen there, it really isn't the stores fault. Show up to open gaming night, play the games that do get played, make friends, talk people into playing armada. It's how it's done. A store can only do so much to get play groups going and covenant seems to go way beyond most.

I actually have been asking and and bugging for months now. I had hoped with the new Corellian Campaign Organized Play, they would do that. Maybe that makes me a sucker. But they always talked a good game with Armada but never delivered.

This really sounds like they dropped a game with little interest and replaced it with Destiny which has tons of interest.

That is a valid point, though not the reason Zach listed for bailing on Armada.

A game store is open only for so many hours, of which only a few are ideal for gaming events. They also only have so many tables. Time and space is a resource a game store has to allocate just like shelf space. Armada takes a lot of space and time and really, few people buy Armada at full MSRP from a game store. It is hard for a game store to get behind this kind of game.

Destiny on the other hand doesn't take as much time or space and being a CCG, they get into the market of selling singles and doing drafts. It is a money maker for any game store. TC is all in on Destiny. They will probably be shutting down several games to make time and room for this game.

What to know who else is all in on Destiny? FFG, proof is right here, note not listed in alphabetical order. Even rebellion is given higher status. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/#/universe/star-wars

I would love Destiny as an LCG but as a CCG I hate it. However game stores are going to love Destiny because it is a CCG. It will help them get that much closer to being in the black.

Destiny is going to suck the life out of many games.