I'm new around, and was wondering whether FFG is going to continue supporting and releasing products for Dark Heresy. I know there's still one upcoming book, but what's after that?

I'm asking because of the fact that Rogue Trader was just releaed, and FFG might want to concentrate on it, and also because of the new WHFRPG game which uses a different system and a lot of presentation tools; FFG might want to change all of their RPGs to that format.

Also, will the third WH40K game line (Deathwatch) planned in the series ever be released?

What do you think?

They will keep on supporting DH, just as they are supporting RT (this is coming from the mouth of one of FFG's playtesters). Don't worry about that, a fair bit of stuff is on the way.

They also won't be changing the current RPGs to the new WFRPG system.

And they do plan on bringing out Deathwatch at some point. When this is, however, is currently unknown.

Speaking of, anyone heard any rumors about what is coming after Ascension and the last Haarlock Trilogy adventure? I think Dark Heresy could desperately use a book detailing Imperial religion and the various cults. The tech superstition of the setting is one of the things I constantly see GMs and Players having trouble wrapping their heads around, and without knowing what the canon and dogma of the Ecclesiarchy is, it's pretty hard to figure out what counts as actual "heresy", as opposed to plain old apostasy. Also, the setting could really use a book detailing the laws of the Imperium, and the workings of the Administratum, and how procedurally the Inquisition is supposed to carry out it's duties. Can an Inquisitorial Agent really just shoot anyone he pleases? Does he need a "Warrent of Execution" or some such thing first? What sort of evidence is he expected to collect through the course of his duties, if any? How does the Inquisition's jurisdiction interact with that of the Adeptus Arbites, and how are the various penalties (torture, execution, penal legion, work colonies, life in a penitence engine, arco-flagellation, etc) get meted out? Also, WE NEED VEHICLE RULES , dammit! Yeah, I have the apocryphal rules, but official ones really are needed.

So I guess I want a character/setting book for the Clerics (and Sisters) and Tech-Priests, a character/setting book for Adepts and Arbiters, a guide to Inquisitorial procedure, structure, resources, and all things forensic and covert related, and something with vehicles! I suppose there's also room to come up with books for the other careers as well (the Scum could at least be covered with the Arbiters, and the Psyker could be jammed in with the Clerics & Tech-Priests. Assassins & Guardsmen could get something too, I suppose).

Anyway, anyone know if there's any chance of anything like any of that coming out on down the road? Something even more awesome that I haven't considered yet? Is Ascension going to have follow up books for that level of play? And when is Deathwatch scheduled for anyway?

There's a free download somewhere (not sure where, I got mine via something else) that has a bunch of rules and stats for several vehicles. We use it for the Guncutter my group has.

Speaking of the future of DH, it seems the core rulebook has been removed from both DriveTHRUrpg and RPGnow.

Is it no more available for download purchace, or will be back in the future?

(I posted the same question in the News area as a comment to the core rulebook's PDF release annoucement, sorry for double posting.)

Kylen said:

Aye, I have that pdf! It was a free "Apocryphal" supplement posted by Black Industries before they went dark. Unfortunately, it's getting increasingly hard to find, Dark Reign being pretty much the only place it exists online at this point (maybe. It was taken down when DR had their IP issue with GW, not sure if it was put back up). Still, I think it's a big oversight for a game to have official character skills allowing interaction with vehicles of various sorts, but no official rules for it. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping something of the sorts gets tucked into Ascension , but I'm prepared to be disappointed. Still, thanks for mentioning it!

thiha said:

Interesting. This is true. I wonder what it portends... did you get any response thiha?

Don't forget about the possibility of a supplement written for use by both games. The only Dark Heresy supplements that are hard to use for Rogue Trader are the books that only have missions, as most missions won't convert easily.

The Inquisitors handbook has a lot of gear that is useful for Rogue Traders (like retractor fields). So the only thing needed to turn it into a supplement that fits both games is some flavour text that relates it to RT (including changing the title) and giving all the items a specific rarity (which is easy to house rule).

theDevilofWormwood said:

Nope. www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp

Hope we'll get some answer from the official side.

Of course I'd like to see a book with more homeworld variations, and custom career ranks, and the like. Abhumans and wretched xenos would be nice as well.

thiha said:

Hm, as optimist I would say that they are icorporating errata into it. But who knows...

I think that DH (and RT as well) players could use some sort of preview booklet similiar to great Knowledge is Power released IRRC almost exactly a year ago. Wouldn´t it be sweet?

Official vehicle rules are pretty much a must, although I suspect we will see this sooner for Rogue Trader since they had to cut the small craft section from the book for space considerations. Since it is the same game mechanics I will be happy regardless of what game title it gets published under. Coherent jump-pack and flight-pack rules would be nice too.

More character customization options are always welcome both for new and veteran characters.

Ascention is on ALL of our wish lists, obviously.

As long as the quality is there, more adventure books are welcomed. Detailed fluff-books on settings, Imperial institutions and so on would likewise be a good idea.

Abhuman and xenos player characters just seem like a terribly bad idea to me (maybe abhumans for RT, but NOT for DH!). That stated, more game info and stats for NPCs of this nature are still much needed.

Perhaps a tie-in with Games Workshop/Citadel to produce some cool DH/RT mineatures in the same 28mm scale as the existing 40K armies? As it stands now it is stupidly easy to find mineatures for Guardsmen, manageable for Arbitrators Techpriests and Psykers (if they went the IG route). Scum require the (out of production) Necromunda line. Sisters manage fine, but most other careers are rather limited at best. 40K also has a decided lack of female minis (Sororitas and a handful of out-of-production IG models).

Heck, hardcore Otaku that I am, "Limited Edition Inquisitorial Rosette Replica" would be sexually arrousing!

Deathwatch/Grey Knights: Deathwatch is "in the works/playtesting" and Grey Knights would be a pretty obvious addition to the same book. Theoretically yummy!

OF VITAL AND DEADLY SERIOUS NOTE: Do NOT under ANY circumstances do to DH/RT what was done to WFRPG! No serious themed RPG should ever involve reloading your bolter, then tapping your Pikachu card, spending two "heresy tokens" to draw some fresh cards, moving your mineature three spaces on the game board to the space marked "Free Parking because Tau are slow" and then ending your turn.

ZillaPrime said:

OF VITAL AND DEADLY SERIOUS NOTE: Do NOT under ANY circumstances do to DH/RT what was done to WFRPG! No serious themed RPG should ever involve reloading your bolter, then tapping your Pikachu card, spending two "heresy tokens" to draw some fresh cards, moving your mineature three spaces on the game board to the space marked "Free Parking because Tau are slow" and then ending your turn.

And thankfully that's nothing like the new edition of WFRP.

Would like to see something along the lines of a treatment covering the forge worlds/cult of the omnissiah. Possibly tying in with vehicles of the Imperium and the reverance of the machine spirits within such arcane devices.

...If memory serves Jump Packs were covered in the armoury section of the RT core book, yet it is likely Ascension may reiterate the rules...

Seeing as both DotDG and the RH covered the perils and pitfalls of living on the 'wild side', perhaps a coverage of the puritanical followers of the holy inquisition is due - perhaps similar to the Thorian sourcebook for the Inquisitor game. The IH did go into what it means to live and die within the Imperium, and the DotDG gave some appraisal of the puritanical factions, yet maybe there is room for a counterpoint to the RH.

"And thankfully that's nothing like the new edition of WFRP."

Really? Because I've just read the "Design Diary" article where they made some pretty weak arguments for ditching an almost 25 year old game mechanic in favour of something that become useless if you lose the dice. Look at the Call of Cthulhu RPG, simple percentile system and all they do when a new edition comes out is clarify the meaning of the skills or add more. Do you reckon the new WHFRP system will last 25 years?

Rogue Trader wasn't meant to last forever, it was only originally scheduled up to the release of Rogue Trader. Admittedly, there is still a lot of ground to cover on the puritan side of things, so it might last a while longer... However, with regards to Deathwatch, I think Black Industries was planning for 2010, so I'd say that it's a "done when it's done" situation.

Have to say that Fantasy Flight's enthusiasm is admirable. But I'm disappointed with the results so far; mostly because Black Industries had set the bar so high with the core book, going back to black and white was always going to be a drop. Also, the loss of career branching in Rogue Trader was a disappointment. And the top 16 ranks, although this is really more the top 8 and the bottom 8.

xaeromancer said:

I'm baffled by this.

Firstly, FFG haven't put out any B&W supplements. Secondly their production values are extremely high, higher in fact than BIs based on the reprints of Inquisitor's Handbook and PtU.

I don't know where you get the idea of career branching in RT, or 'top 16 ranks' from. I suppose it could, conceivably, have been a very early BI discussion, but certainly not carried through, and I don't reall ever reading such on the BI boards.

BI's original plan for the 40k RPGs was to release them about 18 months apart. Surprisingly FFG were able to more or less keep to that schedule (RT was a little late, but not too much). I think 2010 would be too early for DW, but Gencon 2011 might be feasible.

So far FFG's products have been very high quality, better than BI's (though that isn't surprising - BI were winding down when DH was released and had to cut corners). I wouldn't expect a WFRP3 version of DH anytime soon (certainly not until DW has been out for a while), though I think the system could work for DH (and would be a huge improvement on the cobbled together system we have now).

Personally if I was BI. I'd be planning books for DH that are also RT books.

ZillaPrime said:

And what do you think of an Imperial Tarot?

Dalnor Surloc said:

Agreed. In fact, I would have prefered a unique game:

- same resources directly usable for both games

- more homogenous rules

- no wasted paper for duplicate content

I think DH fans are RT fans too, so why publish two games?

Suhuy said:

Because not every DH fan is an RT fan. And conversely there are many people who play RT who don't play DH. Lastly, the primary reason is 'that's what Games Workshop wanted, and it's their license'.

This is a situation that comes up with many game lines. Whether or not to reprint material in each book, thus minimising the number of 'required' purchases, or to put out a single main rulebook, thus minimising duplicated material but at the cost of requiring customers to buy more than one book.

Given the nature of gaming, and gamers (or rather people in general), obviously some people will prefer one approach and others another, that doesn't make their decision 'wrong'.

Suhuy said:

Because, though there is a considerable overlap, many people do only play one or the other.

Equally important: the 40k universe is too broad and too big to encompass all of it in a single book; Rogue Trader offers a different context and a different style of play to Dark Heresy, and focusses on a different part of the background. The only other option, then, is a single 40kRP core rulebook and then distinct setting/expansion books for Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, etc, etc, in the same style as White Wolf have done with the New World of Darkness.

But in that case, if you want to play with both Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy elements, then you end up buying three books, instead of two (1 core book, 2 setting books) - currently, both 40kRP rulebooks together cost $119.90... as three separate 256-page books (each just over half the size of the DH or RT rulebooks), going by FFG's prices for books that size, it's $149.85 - nearly half as much again. Add in Deathwatch material (one additional book in either case), and you reach prices of $179.85 and $199.80, respectively.

It's more expensive to produce and consequently more expensive to sell, and requires that players buy more than one book to start with... none of which are particularly good things.

Plus what Evilref said.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

It's only fair, given you've made my point before I could at least three times recently!

Suhuy said:

I'm in a different boat - I've bought every DH and RT product save the Haarlock books and the RT Screen and I haven't played any RT yet because I just can't work out how. I'm a storyteller, so a natural GM... and I just can't figure RT out.

DH is far more my style, so I'd prefer them to stay separate.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

They can still stay separate. A Galaxy Guide to the Calixis Sector and Koronus Expanse could be released and apply to both games with ease, the only problem is any Psyker related material would have to be double statted. A Xenos Threats book could be great for both games. I plan to use Forsaken Bounty and its follow ups, including the adventure in the GM Screen for RT as DH adventures.

It more or less made me kind of upset that they gave Rogue Trader a separate style/system for Psyker powers. I liked the fact that it was a different style then the rest of the game cause it gave it that other worldy, doesnt fit and not everyone knows the rules for it vibe to it. Wich is how the warp should be in the setting.

But thats just me.