The conditional statement is just for a squadron to be in Range 1. So you don't necessarily need air superiority.

Sure, we are thinking of long range bombs.

At closer range... replacing 2 black dice (+0.5 damage)...double arcing is (+1) damage.

Perhaps, it's best for the Big Ships... hitting like an ISD-1 at medium range is pretty devastating.

Maybe, but the price tag is giving me sticker shock. That's a lot to pay for a fairly marginal upgrade in damage that includes a condition. Ackbar is only 6 more points after all.

If you take Sato, take Tycho and keep him in your back pocket.

Absolutely. I think many of us were taking that as a given. Tycho synergizes with Sato very well.

I'm thinking HWKs and Tycho will be staples of any Sato list. I think he is strong if he is built for, just like Ackbar and Cracken. Even giving MC30 torps the ability to roll blacks at medium range is pretty strong, I just don't know if he'd dethrone Mothma or Rieekan in a predominantly MC30 list, especially since the threat of Sato will be out there.

I'll be loving Sato, when the Empire gets a traitor commander that allows them to use Rebel commanders. VSD1 or GSDs + Sato ..... oh my!

Everyone complains about the unreliability of red dice and the lack of re-rolls, yet I have seen not one mention of my favorite Sato ship (other than Salvation) in this thread:

AF2 with OE+TRC. That's 2 black / 1 red (guaranteed to be 2 damage), with rerolls for the blacks, at long range. And it's still cheap, and on something you can use as a mainline carrier at the same time.

I also think Salvation & MC30s have some interesting tricks with him; I think being able to swap a blue in for leading shots at range is going to be key for the MC80 battle cruiser (again, back to the re-rolling reds issue).

I also think my 12 combat refit GR-75 list throwing 24 black dice at medium range will be hysterical.

I'd love to see the math on that build vs an Ackbar AFB.

Basically 2 rerollable black dice plus a guaranteed 2 damage vs 5 random red dice.

Don't forget that unlike Ackbar, Sato ships can double arc. Welcome back Paragon.

Paragon wasn't a good addition already?

I foresee Sato being the "odd ball" lists where you fit a bunch of seemingly random ships in a fleet that cover each others weaknesses. 1 MC30, 1 AF, maybe a CR90, 1 Pelta and some GR-75s. Or MC80L/H1, MC30, Pelta, CR90, GR-75. Where as Rieekan and Mothma/Cracken run "tribal lists" with many MC30/TRC90/GR-75s and some squads.

This "odd ball" fleet will use the threat of the MC30 and Pelta Assault throwing blacks at medium/long range after the AF/MC80/flotilla fling Tycho and Shara at the enemy ships to tear into enemy squadrons. A-Wings will be the likely choice for Sato so you can win the squadron game, and with both Tycho and Shara, it will be very hard to deal with unless your opponent doubles down on AA fire.

I think Sato will not be very good with multiple MC30s or CR90s because both of those need the defensive commander to stay alive. And I think any list that runs Ackbar has a pretty good chance at running Sato with a few tweaks.

Paragon wasn't a good addition already?

No it wasn't. It only works on itself ("you" means "the ship this is equipped to") and requires a ship of moderate maneuverability at best to double-arc its target all for one extra black die on the second shot. It's not great.

I think Sato will not be very good with multiple MC30s or CR90s because both of those need the defensive commander to stay alive. And I think any list that runs Ackbar has a pretty good chance at running Sato with a few tweaks.

I actually see Sato reducing my reliance on defensive upgrades on my MC30's. The ability to proc my APTs at range means I no longer necessarily have to charge in to burn down ISDs, VSDs, and MC80's. I still can if I need to really ratchet up the damage to secure the kill, but he dramatically reduces my impetus to do so, meaning I can hang out at safer long range and still threaten pretty well.

It might be Sato that makes Foresight useful!

I think Sato will not be very good with multiple MC30s or CR90s because both of those need the defensive commander to stay alive. And I think any list that runs Ackbar has a pretty good chance at running Sato with a few tweaks.

I actually see Sato reducing my reliance on defensive upgrades on my MC30's. The ability to proc my APTs at range means I no longer necessarily have to charge in to burn down ISDs, VSDs, and MC80's. I still can if I need to really ratchet up the damage to secure the kill, but he dramatically reduces my impetus to do so, meaning I can hang out at safer long range and still threaten pretty well.

It might be Sato that makes Foresight useful!

The only downside is you still want to get into close range to deal full damage and once you lose your squads, you lose Sato. And you can't reliably hit anything with an Evade or Scatter since you don't have the Acc, or you need 2 hit/crits against an Evade ship.

I have no doubt you will make multiple MC30s work with Sato. But I only see it effective against large ships that can't mitigate the damage before it is dealt. That's why I think running 1, maybe 2 with Sato will be best because you will have another damage source that is not relying on Sato to proc crits such as an MC80 or AF.

I think Sato will be the commander that needs the perfect planning and maneuvering to pull off because there are so many factors that go into the fleet that can defeat it, such as:

1. Evade

2. Killing flotillas

3. Losing squads

4. Relying on long range black dice too much

5. Losing defensive upgrades in favor of offensive upgrades

6. Playing against another long range list such as Sato or TRC90s or Ackbar

7. Not utilizing Sato enough

I'm most excited for Sato because he has the largest risk/reward IMO. You can do so many gimmicky/cheesy bs with him, but also make your dice more reliable such as getting the blue dice for a long range LS and an H9 Acc on a Liberty.

Of course, on the other hand, high variance wins tournaments.

There have been several comments to this point, but let me circle back to drive it home: Sato is someone you have to build around. The beauty of some commanders (Rieekan, Dodonna, Motti) is that you can drop them into most fleets, and they work. Then, there are others that are the exact opposite of this (Cracken, Konstantine).

If you are thinking of Sato as "well, I upgrade some reds to blacks so .25 damage per die" then you probably should not be taking Sato, because he doesn't fit what that fleet would do. If we are thinking of "how do I do things that were literally impossible before", such as making the AF2B a long/medium range double arc monster by converting it to 2 black / 1 red + 2 black with OE and TRC (for a grand total of 2 more damage per round expected, with more criticals, vs. a standard AF), then you are moving towards where you should consider Sato.

On a stand-alone basis, I think he is terrible. On an adjusted basis (long range APTs off MC30s in a TRC-Vette fleet so that you overwhelm the evades / using him to power leading shots at long range off MC80s / etc.) I think he has real potential, but to be clear, unless you are building your ships to fit with his ability and maximize the impact (as well as having a strong and beefy fighter complement, such as 8 YT-2400), I think he's a poor commander.

Then again, Cracken with all large ships is really poor too. You have to build around Sato or don't bother to take him.

Edit: Also, I find the comparison to Ackbar to be completely incorrect - Ackbar requires side arcs only to activate his ability. Sato is going to play very differently because you can use his ability double-arcing, which changes the way you want to engage. The two commanders will lead to polar opposites in maneuvering in many cases, and Sato works with ships that don't necessarily want to side arc. We can argue about who is better but they do very different things and want very different fleets, so it's not going to be the case that you pick "between" them as you should have decided your macro strategy first and that will rule one or the other (if not both) out.

I can't see that it has been mentioned, but Sato gives you a conditional re-roll of up to 2 dice, not just dice change. Say you attack with an af2 at long range. You roll 1 accuracy and 2 blanks. You can then choose to remove the two blank reds, and add 2 reds (or any other color combination), while keeping the accuracy from the original roll. That will help a lot with my fickle red dice, and helps the rebels to get those much needed re-roll options. Worth it in my book, if the list is tooled for it.

He does not. We were all hoping for it, but the wording has changed since the wave 5 announcement. Any die change happens before rolling. Here's the new card for your reference:

Paragon wasn't a good addition already?

No it wasn't. It only works on itself ("you" means "the ship this is equipped to") and requires a ship of moderate maneuverability at best to double-arc its target all for one extra black die on the second shot. It's not great.

Ah, I forgot "you" referred to the ship itself. In that case it is a bad title card, especially since I'm planning on running Ackbar.

Sato's trigger is definitely a bit finicky but I think he will shine with ships that like double-arcing as you get maximum benefit from his ability. So MC30s, CR90s, and the odd HMC80 (as well as the Pelta, obviously). The long-ranged black crit ordnance trick is fun but not really something to strongly build around. Salvation also loves swapping its red dice in the front for black and it still retains at least one red dice to use the TRCs on if necessary.

The biggest issue is going to be coming up with squadron builds that aren't overinvesting, methinks.

However, I would throw in a dedicated scout frigate whose sole job is to hammer large capital ships with long range APTs.

Blacks at medium range, blues at long range. CR-90bs can do some crazy stuff now.

Blacks at medium range, blues at long range. CR-90bs can do some crazy stuff now.

B's will only ever be Medium Range.

You can get your choice of die colour at medium range... But you can't gather dice for long range.

I made very similar points to these and was told I was being dismissive. But I obviously completely agree. On paper with the new wording he doesn't seem to pan out, if you're going heavy bomber. On the table might be different but he seems to be falling into the Ackbar bin a little bit. Mathematically not worth his cost comparatively. But if you look at the rebels and just accept most of them have a premium on their cost then he becomes easier to swallow.

All this bring said on the table it may be different, but he is looking super nichey to me right now, just like Ackbar.

I think a difference of opinion is that I don't consider Ackbar to be any more "Niche" than Mon Mothma...

Or General Cracken...

Or General Dodonna...

Or Garm Bel Iblis...

Or General Madine....

Or Commander Sato.......

...

All of them require a measure (not a modicum, a measure) of thought into what you are including in your fleet, to get maximum effect... ALL of them...

I made very similar points to these and was told I was being dismissive. But I obviously completely agree. On paper with the new wording he doesn't seem to pan out, if you're going heavy bomber. On the table might be different but he seems to be falling into the Ackbar bin a little bit. Mathematically not with his cost comparatively. But if you look at the rebels and just accept most of them have a premium on their cost turn he becomes easier to swallow.

All this bring said on the table it may be different, but he is looking super nichey to me right now, just like Ackbar.

I'm excited for Sato if for no other reason than he will be another rebel admiral that encourages lists built specially around him. I love that Rebel fleets are so strongly shaped by the admiral, and he will be no exception.

I think a difference of opinion is that I don't consider Ackbar to be any more "Niche" than Mon Mothma...

Or General Cracken...

Or General Dodonna...

Or Garm Bel Iblis...

Or General Madine....

Or Commander Sato.......

...

All of them require a measure (not a modicum, a measure) of thought into what you are including in your fleet, to get maximum effect... ALL of them...

I disagree. Ackbar and Sato are more niche than any other Rebel commander because you have to work to get their effect, on top of building a list. Any list that Ackbar is in, Dodonna will do fine in. Won't be great, but he can still fit in. Any list that Cracken is in, will work with Mothma since all the ships you want with Cracken have an Evade.

Where as you can't build a Mothma list and put Ackbar in it. I guess you technically can since I know you will get me with that, but the list will do worse. Or try to switch Ackbar for Cracken.

The difference is you must build a list around Sato and Ackbar, where as Dodonna, Madine and Garm can simply be put in and you will get the benefit, no questions asked. However, if you build a list for every commander, you will obviously do better.

I think a difference of opinion is that I don't consider Ackbar to be any more "Niche" than Mon Mothma...

Or General Cracken...

Or General Dodonna...

Or Garm Bel Iblis...

Or General Madine....

Or Commander Sato.......

...

All of them require a measure (not a modicum, a measure) of thought into what you are including in your fleet, to get maximum effect... ALL of them...

Not good ole Zombie Lord Rieekan though. Play whatever the heck you want, Space necromancy is an equal opportunity corrupter of souls. Unless you are a generic squadron. Then you have but one life to give for your admiral.

I might also drop dodonna off that list. He benefits from some list tailoring but like rieekan I dont think he needs it. Not the way the rest of the list does.

However, if you build a list for every commander, you will obviously do better.

I think this is what Dras was getting at. At this point the argument is basically over how much building towards your commander is required for it to count as "niche," which is semantics.

However, if you build a list for every commander, you will obviously do better.

I think this is what Dras was getting at. At this point the argument is basically over how much building towards your commander is required for it to count as "niche," which is semantics.

I think you got the one and only like Dras has ever given. At least that I have ever seen.

However, if you build a list for every commander, you will obviously do better.

I think this is what Dras was getting at. At this point the argument is basically over how much building towards your commander is required for it to count as "niche," which is semantics.

Exactly.

I'm sorry, but its the philosophy I've adopted in my list building...

The Admiral I am using is the first consideration I have to make... There are only 2 things that are mandatory to include in a list, play a game of Armada...

And they are "At Least One Ship" (otherwise the game ends quickly)... And a Fleet Commander.

I consider the concept of a "Generic" fleet which I could drag and drop different commanders into, to itself, be a niche concept, but really, an interesting thought experiment only... because, as has been stated and reinforced, you will always do better if you plan your fleet around your Admiral.

Why consider it any other way?

Perhaps its my constant losing ... due to my horrid dice rolls... that has removed any concept of a "Comfort Zone Build" from my mind? I don't have a lot of things that I'm familiar and happy with, that I instantly associate with my list and playstyle... Because I suck... That I havn't found my playstyle other than "Hugeass Gimmick"...

So, my entire list built is dictated by my Admiral... Mothma and Cracken may be theoretically compatible, but there are ways where they are not equally compatible, and, again, you will do better when you focus on the specifics.

::shrug::

I'm rambling now.

However, if you build a list for every commander, you will obviously do better.

I think this is what Dras was getting at. At this point the argument is basically over how much building towards your commander is required for it to count as "niche," which is semantics.

I think you got the one and only like Dras has ever given. At least that I have ever seen.

I warranted a Dras like last night. It was the happiest day of my life.

In conclusion, I think Sato is a pretty versatile commander.

If I want more damage, I'll add black dice.

If I want an accuracy, I'll add blue dice.

If I want to be completely ineffective, I'll add red dice.