Kriswell, consider this. I choose to resolve a die and hit for 5 damage. Han has 1 hp left, I resolve the 5 damage on han. Do I do 1 damage or 5, because the excess is "ignored"?

The rules clearly cover this. You DEALT 5 damage and Han TAKES 1 damage. The rule book differentiates dealing damage and taking damage.

Then wouldnt he only be dealt 1 damage? the rest of the dealt damaged is ignored.

Nope. Again, clearly covered in the rules. You DEALT 5 damage to Han. He TAKES 1 damage and then dies. The remaining 4 don't have a practical effect as Han is dead at that point. You might want to re-read the rules about dealing versus taking damage.

This actually proves my point. Just because something is ignored doesnt mean it has a value of 0. So back to the question am I dealing 1 damage or 5 damage? If I can deal more damage to a target than health, why cant I gain more than 3 shields?

1. Any excess damage dealt to a character from a source that defeats the character is ignored. A player can deal more damage to a character than they have health, even when distributing the damage as they wish (e.g., from the special on the F-11D Rifle).

Kind of proves my point also as the rules confirm that damage DEALT in excess of an allowable amount is not actually TAKEN.

Much in the same vein... shield tokens that are we try to GIVE to a character, but that are ignored due to being in excess of an allowable amount are not actually GAINED.

I'm not arguing that you're trying to give the character a shield. I'm saying the character doesn't gain a shield. The ability triggers off of gaining and not giving.

I'm reading lots of comments saying that when a character with 3 shields gains a shield that you ignore it... therefore requiring the character to gain the shield before it can be ignored. This isn't what the rules actually say, though.

This is what the rules actually say... "A character cannot have more than 3 shields. Any excess shields that WOULD BE GIVEN to the character are ignored."

The emphasis is mine. In other words, if you would give a character a 4th shield, you ignore that shield and don't give it to the character. I think it's very reasonable to say a character didn't gain a shield that it wasn't given.

Ok so Qui Gon has 3 shields. Lets assume you're about to claim the battlefield and give him a shield. Sounds like we both agree he WOULD BE GIVEN a shield here.... now the BEFORE triggers and I think it's all obvious from this point.

When a player gains resources, they take tokens from the supply. Being given a shield, taking one from the supply certainly sounds like gaining one to me.

Kriswell, consider this. I choose to resolve a die and hit for 5 damage. Han has 1 hp left, I resolve the 5 damage on han. Do I do 1 damage or 5, because the excess is "ignored"?

The rules clearly cover this. You DEALT 5 damage and Han TAKES 1 damage. The rule book differentiates dealing damage and taking damage.

Then wouldnt he only be dealt 1 damage? the rest of the dealt damaged is ignored.

On that thought, that makes Second Chance very appealing, save a character and gain 5 health.

I'm reading lots of comments saying that when a character with 3 shields gains a shield that you ignore it... therefore requiring the character to gain the shield before it can be ignored. This isn't what the rules actually say, though.

This is what the rules actually say... "A character cannot have more than 3 shields. Any excess shields that WOULD BE GIVEN to the character are ignored."

The emphasis is mine. In other words, if you would give a character a 4th shield, you ignore that shield and don't give it to the character. I think it's very reasonable to say a character didn't gain a shield that it wasn't given.

Ok so Qui Gon has 3 shields. Lets assume you're about to claim the battlefield and give him a shield. Sounds like we both agree he WOULD BE GIVEN a shield here.... now the BEFORE triggers and I think it's all obvious from this point.

I do agree that he's about to be given a shield and that said shield is about to be ignored. I do not agree that he is about to gain a shield. His ability requires that he be about to gain a shield.

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

My points have had nothing to whether he gains the shield or it is ignored, but the timing of when the checks are actually made vs his ability.

Per the example in the rulebook, his ability triggers when he's about to gain a shield.

So the order of events for adding shields seems to be:

1. Play the action or resolve the shield die, thus the character is about to gain a shield. (This is the point where I contend his ability triggers)

2. Check how many shields the character has.

3. Give the character shields, ignoring any over 3.

It doesn't all just fizzle right away, there's a structure and sequence of events that plays our when you do anything. There's nothing saying you can't target him with that gives him shields while he's at 3, so you still have to go through the steps of granting the shields, whether they are ignored or not, they aren't ignored until you check how many he has.

When a player gains resources, they take tokens from the supply. Being given a shield, taking one from the supply certainly sounds like gaining one to me.

So... the player takes one from the supply and doesn't give it to the character as it's instead ignored. So, the player gains it? I'm not sure what your point is here.

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

You've been given and seen several explanations. These explanations have been expanded upon and reinforced with examples and precedent.

Your refusal to accept or consider them in no way influences their existence.

It does, however, make it fairly clear that your desire for clarification is disingenuous. You want to argue your interpretation. It's far from the first time this has happened on the FFG forums.

Your entire argument is premised on ignoring the queue. You want to jump to the end of the queue (Ignoring shields in excess of three) in order to affect a trigger at the beginning of the queue (Qui Gon about to gain shields).

Any sincere desire for the truth of this interaction would be marked by emailing FFG for clarification and waiting for it.

I'm actually starting to feel like I am being trolled.

Where is Denmark when I need them

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

You've been given and seen several explanations. The se explanations have been expanded upon and reinforced with examples and precedent.

Your refusal to accept or consider them in no way influences their existence.

It does, however, make it fairly clear that your desire for clarification is disingenuous. You want to argue your interpretation. It's far from the first time this has happened on the FFG forums.

Your entire argument is premised on ignoring the queue. You want to jump to the end of the queue (Ignoring shields in excess of three) in order to affect a trigger at the beginning of the queue (Qui Gon about to gain shields).

Any sincere desire for the truth of this interaction would be marked by emailing FFG for clarification and waiting for it.

He's been given explanations but hasn't GAINED an explanation.

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

My points have had nothing to whether he gains the shield or it is ignored, but the timing of when the checks are actually made vs his ability.

Per the example in the rulebook, his ability triggers when he's about to gain a shield.

So the order of events for adding shields seems to be:

1. Play the action or resolve the shield die, thus the character is about to gain a shield. (This is the point where I contend his ability triggers)

2. Check how many shields the character has.

3. Give the character shields, ignoring any over 3.

It doesn't all just fizzle right away, there's a structure and sequence of events that plays our when you do anything. There's nothing saying you can't target him with that gives him shields while he's at 3, so you still have to go through the steps of granting the shields, whether they are ignored or not, they aren't ignored until you check how many he has.

I think I see the core issue here. You think he's about to gain a shield as soon as you say you're going to give him one... regardless of whether or not he ultimately will gain that shield. I think he's about to gain a shield immediately before he gains a shield. The trigger is gaining one or more shields... not being given one or more shields.

Do you have rules text allowing you to ignore the portion of giving a character a shield where you decide whether or not it actually gains that shield or if you ignore it?

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

You've been given and seen several explanations. The se explanations have been expanded upon and reinforced with examples and precedent.

Your refusal to accept or consider them in no way influences their existence.

It does, however, make it fairly clear that your desire for clarification is disingenuous. You want to argue your interpretation. It's far from the first time this has happened on the FFG forums.

Your entire argument is premised on ignoring the queue. You want to jump to the end of the queue (Ignoring shields in excess of three) in order to affect a trigger at the beginning of the queue (Qui Gon about to gain shields).

Any sincere desire for the truth of this interaction would be marked by emailing FFG for clarification and waiting for it.

He's been given explanations but hasn't GAINED an explanation.

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

You've been given and seen several explanations. These explanations have been expanded upon and reinforced with examples and precedent.

Your refusal to accept or consider them in no way influences their existence.

It does, however, make it fairly clear that your desire for clarification is disingenuous. You want to argue your interpretation. It's far from the first time this has happened on the FFG forums.

Your entire argument is premised on ignoring the queue. You want to jump to the end of the queue (Ignoring shields in excess of three) in order to affect a trigger at the beginning of the queue (Qui Gon about to gain shields).

Any sincere desire for the truth of this interaction would be marked by emailing FFG for clarification and waiting for it.

You are incorrect as to my intentions, my good sir. I'm just unclear as to why you would ignore checking to see whether there are already three shields. That's a core part of deciding whether or not a character gains a shield. Why are you ignoring that part?

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

My points have had nothing to whether he gains the shield or it is ignored, but the timing of when the checks are actually made vs his ability.

Per the example in the rulebook, his ability triggers when he's about to gain a shield.

So the order of events for adding shields seems to be:

1. Play the action or resolve the shield die, thus the character is about to gain a shield. (This is the point where I contend his ability triggers)

2. Check how many shields the character has.

3. Give the character shields, ignoring any over 3.

It doesn't all just fizzle right away, there's a structure and sequence of events that plays our when you do anything. There's nothing saying you can't target him with that gives him shields while he's at 3, so you still have to go through the steps of granting the shields, whether they are ignored or not, they aren't ignored until you check how many he has.

I think I see the core issue here. You think he's about to gain a shield as soon as you say you're going to give him one... regardless of whether or not he ultimately will gain that shield. I think he's about to gain a shield immediately before he gains a shield. The trigger is gaining one or more shields... not being given one or more shields.

Do you have rules text allowing you to ignore the portion of giving a character a shield where you decide whether or not it actually gains that shield or if you ignore it?

Well that depends.

Do *you* have rules text allowing you to skip to the end of the queue to influence triggers at the start of it?

Based of the wording in the RRG gained would be taking a token out of the supply pile. Since being given a shield token now = gaining one, he can now trigger his before ability and use 1 and gain 1 token. All is well with the world.

Give vs. Gain?

I'm out.

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

You've been given and seen several explanations. The se explanations have been expanded upon and reinforced with examples and precedent.

Your refusal to accept or consider them in no way influences their existence.

It does, however, make it fairly clear that your desire for clarification is disingenuous. You want to argue your interpretation. It's far from the first time this has happened on the FFG forums.

Your entire argument is premised on ignoring the queue. You want to jump to the end of the queue (Ignoring shields in excess of three) in order to affect a trigger at the beginning of the queue (Qui Gon about to gain shields).

Any sincere desire for the truth of this interaction would be marked by emailing FFG for clarification and waiting for it.

He's been given explanations but hasn't GAINED an explanation.

Sigh. I bet you're fun at a party. Again, it would be awesome if we could keep this conversation on track. Your insults aren't welcome.

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

My points have had nothing to whether he gains the shield or it is ignored, but the timing of when the checks are actually made vs his ability.

Per the example in the rulebook, his ability triggers when he's about to gain a shield.

So the order of events for adding shields seems to be:

1. Play the action or resolve the shield die, thus the character is about to gain a shield. (This is the point where I contend his ability triggers)

2. Check how many shields the character has.

3. Give the character shields, ignoring any over 3.

It doesn't all just fizzle right away, there's a structure and sequence of events that plays our when you do anything. There's nothing saying you can't target him with that gives him shields while he's at 3, so you still have to go through the steps of granting the shields, whether they are ignored or not, they aren't ignored until you check how many he has.

I think I see the core issue here. You think he's about to gain a shield as soon as you say you're going to give him one... regardless of whether or not he ultimately will gain that shield. I think he's about to gain a shield immediately before he gains a shield. The trigger is gaining one or more shields... not being given one or more shields.

Do you have rules text allowing you to ignore the portion of giving a character a shield where you decide whether or not it actually gains that shield or if you ignore it?

Well that depends.

Do *you* have rules text allowing you to skip to the end of the queue to influence triggers at the start of it?

Um... sure. The trigger condition is "gains 1 or more shields". I'm resolving the entire shield process, stopping immediately before the character gains 1 or more shields. I'm unclear as to why you're hopping out of the queue BEFORE you've completed all the steps that lead up to meeting your trigger condition.

So now we're at "give" vs "gain"

Nope. This isn't a waste of time at all.

Sarcasm noted. We all know what Dostoyevsky had to say about it.

Would you care to explain your point? My stance is that a character who is not given a shield doesn't gain that shield. Everyone else in the thread seems to think that a character who is not given a shield due to it being ignored has still gained that shield. I have yet to see an explanation that reconciles that discrepancy.

My points have had nothing to whether he gains the shield or it is ignored, but the timing of when the checks are actually made vs his ability.

Per the example in the rulebook, his ability triggers when he's about to gain a shield.

So the order of events for adding shields seems to be:

1. Play the action or resolve the shield die, thus the character is about to gain a shield. (This is the point where I contend his ability triggers)

2. Check how many shields the character has.

3. Give the character shields, ignoring any over 3.

It doesn't all just fizzle right away, there's a structure and sequence of events that plays our when you do anything. There's nothing saying you can't target him with that gives him shields while he's at 3, so you still have to go through the steps of granting the shields, whether they are ignored or not, they aren't ignored until you check how many he has.

I think I see the core issue here. You think he's about to gain a shield as soon as you say you're going to give him one... regardless of whether or not he ultimately will gain that shield. I think he's about to gain a shield immediately before he gains a shield. The trigger is gaining one or more shields... not being given one or more shields.

Do you have rules text allowing you to ignore the portion of giving a character a shield where you decide whether or not it actually gains that shield or if you ignore it?

Well that depends.

Do *you* have rules text allowing you to skip to the end of the queue to influence triggers at the start of it?

Um... sure. The trigger condition is "gains 1 or more shields". I'm resolving the entire shield process, stopping immediately before the character gains 1 or more shields. I'm unclear as to why you're hopping out of the queue BEFORE you've completed all the steps that lead up to meeting your trigger condition.

Can you please provide the page number for that rule so I can read it?

Okay, pal.

Well, I sure look forward to you posting the email from FFG in response to the question you totally submitted.

KrisWall has a valid point, can a character at three shields be considered to be "about to gain a shield" if yes, then QG's ability triggers, if no then it doesn't. We're not getting the answer to that question in this thread though. Wait for a response from FFG.

Okay, pal.

Well, I sure look forward to you posting the email from FFG in response to the question you totally submitted.

I submitted one a while ago, waiting for a reply.

Imagine Qui-Gon only had TWO shields and goes to resolve a shield die. His ability would remove one, then he'd gain one, and end up at two.... right? Right???

Even in that case, where it's easy to figure out, you STILL have to follow the steps. The BEFORE trigger still goes off. And this is important for the mechanics of the game.

Now imagine if you will, that there is some other card in a future set that ties into this whole chain.

Suppose there is a support named "Force Shields" in play that says:

"Before an enemy character takes damage, give a shield to one of your characters".

Now lets assume you have TWO of these supports in play. (they aren't unique).

Now you have another BEFORE trigger going off in the middle of Qui-Gon's ability. Two of them actually, since you have doubles.

So Qui Gon goes from 2 to 1.... gains 2 shields from the two "Force Shields" . Then his shield die resolves. We can all agree that when you started to resolve the die, he had only 2 shields and could totally gain a shield. Suppose that by the time the die resolves now he's capped at 3. Now the shield that he gained goes back to the discard pile. He STILL gained a shield.

You are acting as if you need to know the end shield count before deciding if Qui-Gon's ability is legal, and we are saying that you don't.

Okay, pal.

Well, I sure look forward to you posting the email from FFG in response to the question you totally submitted.

I submitted one a while ago, waiting for a reply.

Good on ya!

There's a simple process to follow to clarify the rules for any FFG game:

1.) Check the RRG

2.) Check the FAQ

3.) Check forums for *obvious* misinterpretation

4.) Email FFG

You'll note "rejecting all logic that isn't yours when people try to help you out" isn't on that list, and yet strangely, it seems to be the unofficial third step for a lot of people. (See: Literally every other forum in the FFG community)