That it's two points is kind of killer. Almost every ship it's available for has competing upgrades in the same spot (TIE Bomber, TIE Punisher, TIE Phantom), or had price issues to begin with.

I'm pretty saddened it didn't get priced at 1, given how situational it is, and given that it's got some pretty hefty restrictions.

That's my issue too... It's 2 MORE points on something that was probably 2 too many already (sans named phantoms on your list).

Still solid. Still will see use. But I'll let MJ run numbers to see if it actually makes these ships more efficient.

Efficiency isnt really the issue

If said ship was dying beforehand, a conditional green die aint going to save it in any but the most fringe cases

Itll just waste 2 points thst couldve been better spent elsewhere

If a 9 HP ship is "going to die anyway" I'm assuming it's already been shot at 2-3 times and has that bonus dice the same 2-3 times. On a 1 AG ship that extra dice comes up against everything that isn't a HWK primary. If it hasn't been shot at that many times already then it's not really in danger of dying.

Efficiency is an issue. If it is suddenly durable enough to live to do damage again that means a lot. If per points this doesn't make it more dice efficient then you do still stay away from these inefficient ships and it's more of a dud.

That it's two points is kind of killer. Almost every ship it's available for has competing upgrades in the same spot (TIE Bomber, TIE Punisher, TIE Phantom), or had price issues to begin with.

I'm pretty saddened it didn't get priced at 1, given how situational it is, and given that it's got some pretty hefty restrictions.

I compare it more with Stealth Device and it doesnt seem so bad. Stealth Device is utterly pointless on a low defence ship, and although it can help the really agile ships, it has a drawback that it can go away, and thats STILL worth 3 points.

2 Points for a (in most cases) guaranteed agility dice is worth it but you're right, it has competition. Id say the S/F and the TIE Shuttle are the best users atm.

3 points for stealth device is killer on most ships. I often wish stealth device was a variable cost. The cost being equal to your printed agility. Still not perfect, but better, at least you could throw it on low agility ships if you had a point or two left over. Or we need a integrated stealth device modification that you don't losee when taking a hit.

Sorry to distract from the lightweight frame, discussion but the stealth comment struck a cord.

It should cost 0 points because the ships that most benefit from it need a buff to make them cost-effective, not a fair upgrade for a fair cost.

I don't think it makes any ship any more playable than it already was, although if you were already using an /sf or Tomax or something then you might consider it as an option.

One evade rolled on your LF dice is the equivalent of a shield upgrade.

One.

How much does shield upgrade cost?

How many chances do you get to get an evade with LF?

I cannot understand the dislike.

Which is a shame because you pretty much just proved why it's bad with that example.

It should cost 0 points because the ships that most benefit from it need a buff to make them cost-effective, not a fair upgrade for a fair cost.

I don't think it makes any ship any more playable than it already was, although if you were already using an /sf or Tomax or something then you might consider it as an option.

One evade rolled on your LF dice is the equivalent of a shield upgrade.

One.

How much does shield upgrade cost?

How many chances do you get to get an evade with LF?

I cannot understand the dislike.

Comparing the price and effect of something with something which is distinctly overpriced is kind of irrelevant though?

I mean, I'm not saying LF is bad, but comparing it with shield upgrade doesn;'t help.

I'm looking at a list with Duchess VI/Frame, Tomax Crack/Frame/Kallus/Jerjerrod, but I can't work out how to fill the remaining points effectively. 43 is an awkward number for Imps.

Efficiency isnt really the issue

If said ship was dying beforehand, a conditional green die aint going to save it in any but the most fringe cases

Itll just waste 2 points thst couldve been better spent elsewhere

Why would you wait until the ship is getting attacked with it's last HP?

If you use this as an extra die for most if not all of the game it could more that pay for itself. It is however a defensive modifier where unless you already have a good attack most want to boost that.

It should cost 0 points because the ships that most benefit from it need a buff to make them cost-effective, not a fair upgrade for a fair cost.

I don't think it makes any ship any more playable than it already was, although if you were already using an /sf or Tomax or something then you might consider it as an option.

One evade rolled on your LF dice is the equivalent of a shield upgrade.

One.

How much does shield upgrade cost?

How many chances do you get to get an evade with LF?

I cannot understand the dislike.

Comparing the price and effect of something with something which is distinctly overpriced is kind of irrelevant though?

I mean, I'm not saying LF is bad, but comparing it with shield upgrade doesn;'t help.

I'm looking at a list with Duchess VI/Frame, Tomax Crack/Frame/Kallus/Jerjerrod, but I can't work out how to fill the remaining points effectively. 43 is an awkward number for Imps.

An Upsilon fits in there nicely.

Total: 100

It should cost 0 points because the ships that most benefit from it need a buff to make them cost-effective, not a fair upgrade for a fair cost.

I don't think it makes any ship any more playable than it already was, although if you were already using an /sf or Tomax or something then you might consider it as an option.

One evade rolled on your LF dice is the equivalent of a shield upgrade.

One.

How much does shield upgrade cost?

How many chances do you get to get an evade with LF?

I cannot understand the dislike.

Comparing the price and effect of something with something which is distinctly overpriced is kind of irrelevant though?

I mean, I'm not saying LF is bad, but comparing it with shield upgrade doesn;'t help.

I'm looking at a list with Duchess VI/Frame, Tomax Crack/Frame/Kallus/Jerjerrod, but I can't work out how to fill the remaining points effectively. 43 is an awkward number for Imps.

An Upsilon fits in there nicely.

"Duchess" (23)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Lightweight Frame (2)

Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Tomax Bren (24)

Crack Shot (1)

Agent Kallus (2)

Moff Jerjerrod (2)

Lightweight Frame (2)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Major Stridan (32)

Fire-Control System (2)

General Hux (5)

Systems Officer (2)

Pattern Analyzer (2)

Total: 100

Yeah I had that thought shortly after posting. It's a good thought.

Backdraft - predator, frame, pattern analyzer, title - 34

Don't forget the Collision Detector. With Collision Detector and Pattern Analyzer, Backdraft will be able to run over debris with wild abandon.

It should cost 0 points because the ships that most benefit from it need a buff to make them cost-effective, not a fair upgrade for a fair cost.

I don't think it makes any ship any more playable than it already was, although if you were already using an /sf or Tomax or something then you might consider it as an option.

I agree with this totally, but I figured they wanted a certain point range for the Tie Striker. Otherwise they should have just boosted all strikers by 2 points and made this a 0 point upgrade.

If you make it a compulsory upgrade then it just makes the Striker look awful compared to the Zealous Recruit or Alpha Squadron TIE, which would cost about the same amount and have an extra green dice against all attacks.

The Striker is poor, and Lightweight Frame is poor too. I can see myself running Pure Sabacc at 22pts, that's about it.

My point is the reason I believe it's 2 points is that they are focused on the striker not the other ships it would effect.

It's not as good on the Striker as it is on the Bomber or the TIE/sf. If the upgrade was good on the Striker at 2 points it would be a better value on those ships.

This might work......

Nah,0 Agility VT-49 Decimator instead.

But jokes aside, what ship would this work on if the TIE only restriction was removed? (You still have agility < 3 restriction). So kept the 2 points cost and the same wording the same but with one of the following:

• replace TIE only with small ship only
• replace TIE only with Imperial only
• remove TIE only all together

Any thoughts? Ideas?

in that hypothetical case, Biggs, maybe

but it eats integrated's slot so no, not even then

can't imagine it would replace thrusters on Poe, either

It should cost 0 points because the ships that most benefit from it need a buff to make them cost-effective, not a fair upgrade for a fair cost.

I don't think it makes any ship any more playable than it already was, although if you were already using an /sf or Tomax or something then you might consider it as an option.

One evade rolled on your LF dice is the equivalent of a shield upgrade.

One.

How much does shield upgrade cost?

How many chances do you get to get an evade with LF?

I cannot understand the dislike.

Comparing the price and effect of something with something which is distinctly overpriced is kind of irrelevant though?

I mean, I'm not saying LF is bad, but comparing it with shield upgrade doesn;'t help.

I'm looking at a list with Duchess VI/Frame, Tomax Crack/Frame/Kallus/Jerjerrod, but I can't work out how to fill the remaining points effectively. 43 is an awkward number for Imps.

An Upsilon fits in there nicely.

"Duchess" (23)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Lightweight Frame (2)

Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Tomax Bren (24)

Crack Shot (1)

Agent Kallus (2)

Moff Jerjerrod (2)

Lightweight Frame (2)

TIE Shuttle (0)

Major Stridan (32)

Fire-Control System (2)

General Hux (5)

Systems Officer (2)

Pattern Analyzer (2)

Total: 100

Yeah I had that thought shortly after posting. It's a good thought.

Could be a good idea; if only we get a good dial on the new shuttle; that's the real question on this build....

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Lightweight Frame (2)

Imperial Trainee (17)

Lightweight Frame (2)

Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Imperial Trainee (17)

Lightweight Frame (2)

Adaptive Ailerons (0)

"Backdraft" (27)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Lightweight Frame (2)

Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I really like your direction on this one...these ships will all fly very interestingly. Cool.....

Don't forget the Collision Detector. With Collision Detector and Pattern Analyzer, Backdraft will be able to run over debris with wild abandon.

Waiting for the large base super TIE that rocks this baby!

Probably not a large base TIE - but I'd love to see a TIE droid swarm.

In fact....this would work fairly well with the idea I'd had for that.

I'm hoping they do a Drones Swarm with S&V Vulture Droids.

I think too many people are looking at LF as a fix card, it's just something to add flexibility and build options and I think they are trying to avoid it being an auto include like autothrusters.

That said, I think it maybe should have been something along the lines of a Chaardan refit.
Negative pts cost or 0 but you remove an upgrade slot TYPE. That way if a bomber picked it he would remove both missile slots for example not just the one.

Problem with that though is it wouldn't help the TIE shuttle at all which is one of the ships that can potentially make use of it.

It's not a strong card, but then again the Strikers usefulness seems dubious in itself. Why take it over an interceptor?

I do like countdown though but Sabaac is a poor mans Fenn.