I'm plotting out a campaign which is very much about learnignt he ways of the force and the journey to Jedi Knight level, and I'm wondering what the end game is going to look like, in roughest terms, and how much XP I need to dump on the players to make them into the sort of competent Jedi Knights we see in the Star Wars universe.

What does a basic Jedi Knight look like in FaD? How much XP makes you as good as say Season 3 Ezra (who is actually only a Padawan)?

I've done a lot of looking at the books and thinking about it but I'm the sort of person that needs some examples to give me solid baselines and spot things I may not have thought about. I'd really appreciate it if people could post or link me to some high XP FaD character sheets, like 600-800 earned XP or maybe even more.

Not a lot of consensus on this, so you'll get quite a few opinions. Average them out and you'll probably do fine

One good resource might be the Nexus of Power sourcebook, because it contains several examples of "Jedi Trials", and you might be able to scale accordingly. Many of them have a base of Hard difficulty or higher, so a Jedi who is "ready" is going to need a dice pool that can usually beat that, ie YYGG at a minimum, or a 3 dice pool with at least a couple ranks of talents that offer boost dice, and that's only for the Hard ones. Discipline is a common skill, along with Cool and Vigilance, but there are a variety of other tests, and the modular encounters include skill tests of all kinds, though these are sometimes in the Average range.

Some of the tests also measure how many Force pips you can bring to bear, and while many are of the type where you can translate a pip 1-for-1 (eg 1 pip = 1 success), there are several that require 3 or more pips to trigger, suggesting an FR2 minimum.

With that in mind, just MHO, a PC who is ready to take the trials needs at least 500XP. This is enough to fill out their first career spec, get FR2 + Dedication, and have made significant investments into a variety of skills and Force powers. Personally I'd probably wait until 600 or so, giving them some investments into a second tree and having some skills in the 4 rank range.

Whafrong is pretty spot on because it really depends upon how the player spends his/her XP on the character. As a general rule of thumb, though, a "Knight level character is generally equivalent to a prequel era Padawan learner. A true Jedi Knight should be round 600-700 XP, and a Master is around 1200-2000 XP. Once again, however, if a character has spread his/her XP around a wide range of skills, talents, specs, and Force powers, then their ability in any one focus is not going to be very high, but will know a little about a lot of things. whereas a character with a more focused progression will be really good at a few things.

I don't mean to be pedantic but if you're using the default timeline then there are no Jedi, for all intents and purposes. This is important because the PCs will have no-one to compare themselves to. Sure, stories abound of the evil Jedi and the horrors they fomented during the Clone Wars, but that's in the past. The obvious spin of Imperial propaganda means that none of should be taken at face value, and eyewitnesses that saw, maybe even fought with - or against - actual Jedi will be very reluctant to volunteer information.

I think that the trials in the Nexus of Power book is a great place to start for "Jedi Knight-level" play. Beginning characters will find most of the trials too difficult, or even impossible if they lack the necessary Force powers, so it provides a fairly objective benchmark. Master is more difficult, as the title of Master could be bestowed for a variety of accomplishments (at least, according to Wookieepedia). Masters were mostly older, more experienced Jedi, so it makes sense that they'd have a higher in-game power level, but I'm not sure it's possible to have a phase line with Knight on one side and Master on the other.

To wit, I could certainly see a Jedi who excelled in lightsaber dueling and was very strong in that area. Won lots of duels, and so on, but never trained a Padawan successfully, neglected training in other areas of the Force, and was impulsive and hot-headed. The Jedi might never be offered the title of Master, even though he/she was one of the order's preeminent lightsaber combatants. By contrast, a humble consular whose grace and demeanor put everyone at ease might achieve resolution in particularly difficult negotiations and bring peace to a troubled part of the galaxy. For that achievement, which benefited so many and was done without force of arms or coercion, he/she might be awarded the title of Master - even though the second character has much less "XP." Catch my drift?

Not exactly answering the question but it is tangential...

To my way of thinking the shortest (least xp) path to creating a character that can do what "most people" (subjective yes) think a jedi can do is niman-disciple+sentry (in either order) for specs, with base powers and some upgrades from move, sense, enhance and maybe influence (last 2 are subjective) for force powers. Sentry is in endless vigil. I would recommend experimenting building a character based on those two specs (dumping all starting xp into attributes) and figuring out for yourself what the minimum xp needed to build a jedi knight character is. After you figure out that, then that's about where characters start taking the trials (or maybe it depends on your PC's actual builds)

I don't mean to be pedantic but if you're using the default timeline then there are no Jedi, for all intents and purposes.

I'm not sure, but my assumption upon reading the OP is that he is not using the default timeline.

Shameless plug, if you're interested, a Padawan specialization to represent the initial training a Jedi might receive:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/235657-padawan-revisited/

I'm plotting out a campaign which is very much about learnignt he ways of the force and the journey to Jedi Knight level, and I'm wondering what the end game is going to look like, in roughest terms, and how much XP I need to dump on the players to make them into the sort of competent Jedi Knights we see in the Star Wars universe.

I think it depends on exactly what level you’re talking about. What are the exemplars that you want to compare against, and in what timeframe?

What does a basic Jedi Knight look like in FaD? How much XP makes you as good as say Season 3 Ezra (who is actually only a Padawan)?

I think you could probably do a Season 3 Ezra with about 300 additional XP on top of standard chargen. I haven’t tested that by actually attempting to do a build, but that is my feeling.

I've done a lot of looking at the books and thinking about it but I'm the sort of person that needs some examples to give me solid baselines and spot things I may not have thought about. I'd really appreciate it if people could post or link me to some high XP FaD character sheets, like 600-800 earned XP or maybe even more.

IMO, 600-800 earned XP on top of standard chargen would probably put you into the realm of someone who has recently become a Jedi Knight, but is far from a Jedi Master, and is not yet ready to have a Padawan.

For me, I think you’d need at least 1200-1500 earned XP to get to the point where you could be a Jedi Master, and be ready to have a Padawan.

And you wouldn’t get onto the Jedi Council if you didn’t have at least 2000-3000 earned XP.

But I would need to see a number of optimized builds for various exemplars before I could say for sure.

Like this?

You all have some crazy XP thresholds, and part of it is from the films focusing on extraordinary people and not the average denizen. Knight level XP can get you in the ballpark of Phantom Menace Obi-wan, a padawan ready for his trials.

I think whafrog hit the nail on the head as far as the consensus goes. How you interpret the Jedi's abilities in this system depend greatly on how you view them. So (as Elias stated) any real answer will be subjective. The answer? Go with what you feel works. After all, its your game.

So far lots of people agreeing with my rough estimate of 600-800xp, which is good to hear, but it seems like nobody has a real life example to share.

To be clear though, I'm not interested in titles and ranks and wether or not the Jedi exsist, I mean what I said, Jedi Knight level . To be clear I mean a basic Jedi Knight, not some famous awesome dude in their prime, like Obi Wan or Anakin, but just someone with a reliable competence in the basics of the Jedi arts, or a strong focus in one area if they prefer.

You all have some crazy XP thresholds, and part of it is from the films focusing on extraordinary people and not the average denizen. Knight level XP can get you in the ballpark of Phantom Menace Obi-wan, a padawan ready for his trials.

I wouldn't even call "Knight Level" Xp ready for the trials. More like just elevated from an initiate to a Padawan.

So far lots of people agreeing with my rough estimate of 600-800xp, which is good to hear, but it seems like nobody has a real life example to share.

So you want an actual character example? Ok, here is an example I made using a combination of whafrog's and Elias' suggestions. I made this character in Oggdude's character generator with 600 XP.

Remember: this is subjective and not everyone will agree.

There's also my Signature character converted from D6 (conversion still a work in progress).

So far lots of people agreeing with my rough estimate of 600-800xp, which is good to hear, but it seems like nobody has a real life example to share.

To be clear though, I'm not interested in titles and ranks and wether or not the Jedi exsist, I mean what I said, Jedi Knight level . To be clear I mean a basic Jedi Knight, not some famous awesome dude in their prime, like Obi Wan or Anakin, but just someone with a reliable competence in the basics of the Jedi arts, or a strong focus in one area if they prefer.

Take another look at the Trials in Nexus of Power . If you can build a character that can pass the Trials, then you're at Knight proficiency levels.

Several of the skill checks in the Trials are Hard, but most are Average. The PC will need Move and the Reflect talent or Sense's Control upgrade or Protect. Discipline is important, as are Athletics and Resilience. A high Strain Threshold is required, and I'd suggest that Force Rating 2+ is a must for any serious attempt.

The thing is, that with luck - or the Force - on your side, you could make it through the Trials as written with a fairly inexperienced character if it was purpose-built for the challenges. Does that make that character a Knight as far as you're concerned? Personally, I feel like there's really no such thing as an "average" Jedi. Even one with a lesser connection to the Force was still raised as a warrior-monk almost from birth. That doesn't make them better than any other PC (this game, thankfully, does a really good job of maintaining parity with non-FS characters), but it does make them quite a bit better than the vast majority of the galaxy's denizens.

If I wanted to build an "average Jedi," I'd say you'd need 2 ranks of Parry, 2 ranks of Reflect, FR 2, and two or three other Force Talents. A couple of ranks each (or more) in Lightsaber, Discipline, Athletics, Resilience, and Lore would approximate the training. Enhance and Sense are both great at simulating Jedi power & reflexes, and one or two other Force powers to round things out should get you there. That's my take on it, anyway.

So far lots of people agreeing with my rough estimate of 600-800xp, which is good to hear, but it seems like nobody has a real life example to share.

So you want an actual character example? Ok, here is an example I made using a combination of whafrog's and Elias' suggestions. I made this character in Oggdude's character generator with 600 XP.

Remember: this is subjective and not everyone will agree.

There's also my Signature character converted from D6 (conversion still a work in progress).

Mike, I know your proud of Korath, but if you had read past the thread title, you would have seen he was asking about Jedi knights not Jedi masters

There's also my Signature character converted from D6 (conversion still a work in progress).

Mike, I know your proud of Korath, but if you had read past the thread title, you would have seen he was asking about Jedi knights not Jedi masters.

I have been, And posted about both levels in my first response, since that is ultimately what he's asking about, particularly since he also asked about the " End game ", which is Master level. Bradknowels also discusses both actual full Jedi Knight and Jedi Master XP levels, which correspond to my own views as well. The previous poster posted a Knight, I posted a Master. This gives him examples of the full spectrum.

I may not have been clear enough in my initial post, but the end game is characters that are competent force users at the level of a Jedi Knight . So I'm not interested in Master level characters, I've read Nexus of Power and I know the canon of Star Wars very well (whether I'm running my game in the canon universe or not). But thank you everyone for contributing, the important thing here is that I never knew about SWSheets, so now that you guys have introduced me to it, it seems that there are huge numbers of character sheets for me to browse, which is what I was looking for.

There's also my Signature character converted from D6 (conversion still a work in progress).

Mike, I know your proud of Korath, but if you had read past the thread title, you would have seen he was asking about Jedi knights not Jedi masters.

I have been, And posted about both levels in my first response, since that is ultimately what he's asking about, particularly since he also asked about the " End game ", which is Master level. Bradknowels also discusses both actual full Jedi Knight and Jedi Master XP levels, which correspond to my own views as well. The previous poster posted a Knight, I posted a Master. This gives him examples of the full spectrum.

I may not have been clear enough in my initial post, but the end game is characters that are competent force users at the level of a Jedi Knight . So I'm not interested in Master level characters, I've read Nexus of Power and I know the canon of Star Wars very well (whether I'm running my game in the canon universe or not). But thank you everyone for contributing, the important thing here is that I never knew about SWSheets, so now that you guys have introduced me to it, it seems that there are huge numbers of character sheets for me to browse, which is what I was looking for.

@Tramp: you were saying?

*I* thought Squirrelsan was perfectly clear/correctly understood him.

You all have some crazy XP thresholds, and part of it is from the films focusing on extraordinary people and not the average denizen. Knight level XP can get you in the ballpark of Phantom Menace Obi-wan, a padawan ready for his trials.

I wouldn't even call "Knight Level" Xp ready for the trials. More like just elevated from an initiate to a Padawan.

You all have some crazy XP thresholds, and part of it is from the films focusing on extraordinary people and not the average denizen. Knight level XP can get you in the ballpark of Phantom Menace Obi-wan, a padawan ready for his trials.

I wouldn't even call "Knight Level" Xp ready for the trials. More like just elevated from an initiate to a Padawan.

Padawans typically start at what, twelve years old? What does Phantom Menace Obi-wan do that can't be obtained at Knight level?

Enhance leap maxed out; Sense defense committed and turned on, and possibly offence commit as well as tossing the odd B1...which means at least FR2.

Plus, I think it doesn't do the SW universe justice to try and define the characters by only what we see them directly do. There are many abilities simply implied by their position: fixing the hyperdrive (mechanics), finding a place to take the queen (politics, astrogation), never mind many years of intensive training.

Also consistency . Force Rating 2 (which is achievable at Knight Level but doesn't leave much room for everything else), still only gives you a 65% chance of getting one or more light side pips. I've never really seen a Jedi in any of the media fail to get at least a few points on a check, sometimes maybe they don't get enough to power all the upgrades, but always the basic power triggers.

The only person we've seen with a force rating as low as one or two is Luke in Empire failing (for a good few turns) to get his lightsaber out of the snow (silhouette 0 within short range). Which is fine, he was a very low level untrained force user at that point. But even Padawans are far more consistent than that.

You all have some crazy XP thresholds, and part of it is from the films focusing on extraordinary people and not the average denizen. Knight level XP can get you in the ballpark of Phantom Menace Obi-wan, a padawan ready for his trials.

I wouldn't even call "Knight Level" Xp ready for the trials. More like just elevated from an initiate to a Padawan.

Padawans typically start at what, twelve years old? What does Phantom Menace Obi-wan do that can't be obtained at Knight level?

You all have some crazy XP thresholds, and part of it is from the films focusing on extraordinary people and not the average denizen. Knight level XP can get you in the ballpark of Phantom Menace Obi-wan, a padawan ready for his trials.

I wouldn't even call "Knight Level" Xp ready for the trials. More like just elevated from an initiate to a Padawan.

Padawans typically start at what, twelve years old? What does Phantom Menace Obi-wan do that can't be obtained at Knight level?

Enhance leap maxed out; Sense defense committed and turned on, and possibly offence commit as well as tossing the odd B1...which means at least FR2.

Plus, I think it doesn't do the SW universe justice to try and define the characters by only what we see them directly do. There are many abilities simply implied by their position: fixing the hyperdrive (mechanics), finding a place to take the queen (politics, astrogation), never mind many years of intensive training.

Also consistency . Force Rating 2 (which is achievable at Knight Level but doesn't leave much room for everything else), still only gives you a 65% chance of getting one or more light side pips. I've never really seen a Jedi in any of the media fail to get at least a few points on a check, sometimes maybe they don't get enough to power all the upgrades, but always the basic power triggers.

The only person we've seen with a force rating as low as one or two is Luke in Empire failing (for a good few turns) to get his lightsaber out of the snow (silhouette 0 within short range). Which is fine, he was a very low level untrained force user at that point. But even Padawans are far more consistent than that.

Squirrelsan and Whafrog nailed it. Obi-Wan in TPM easily had at least 300-500 Earned XP. If not more. That is the level of a Padawan ready for his/her trials, not someone with only 150 earned XP.

The biggest hurdle to saying a knight level character is a fully trained Jedi is probably the Reflect and Parry ranks it takes to be close to how the Jedi in the movies and shows behave. They flat out step in front of their allies to deflect incoming fire back at the enemies with high precision while wearing robes, and even Padawans are capable of doing this. You'd pretty much need several trees worth of lightsaber training to be that good.