So with the OT firmly behind us and Disney releasing new movies every year I think it is safe to say that those cinematic battles from Episodes IV through VI are gone.

The days of Han Solo trying to fight his way out of a swarm of Academy Pilots are gone. And Accretion is the reason why If I may be so bold.

Take a look at the top meta. What ships are on the table that were in Return of the jedi? Aside from a Palp Ace it is the Lambda Shuttle and the TIE interceptor. But A-wings, B-wing, TIE bombers, and most notably the (T-65) X-wing are no where to be seen at the Top 4 of nationals or worlds. But if you take a look at the design model Accretion is almost inevitable. The design was to regularly release waves and with each wave is a set of new ships. No wave ever released a ship that was already out (Wave 6 being the exception but you could argue that a Scum-Z95 is different enough from a Rebel Z-95 Headhunter that it still follows the rule).

So with new (T-70) replacing the old (que in animated gif that was too offensive to show). The T-65 is essentially replaced.

Xwings were in top 4 of North American championship this year.

So you don't think there will be T-65s in Rogue One? There shouldn't be T-70s...it's about the theft of the Death Star plans, so too early for them I think.

Biggs says what up

Lol at t70s replacing t65s

If anything, apart from regen poe, theyre absolutely worse off

Pava may be an exception; havnt tried her

Not100% agreement, but I think some very well made points in the video.

We did see Jake and Han in Worlds top 16, but is that merely a corner case - an example of superb flying and practice overcoming the shortcomings of the ships?

I have to say I miss good old fashioned dog fighting - small ship vs small ship classic arc dodging and trying to anticipate the enemy pilots moves.

A very large percentage of top 16 ships in the meta where large base turreted ships. This is not to take away from the individual skill of the pilots them selves. If it wasn't large base it was Defenders, which can take some damage and have the free evade+focus action economy.

I'm an Imperial player and I feel constrained by the choices we have: Palp defenders or defenders. Maybe a Decimator. Maybe the Howard Brothers special. But Tie Swarms are dead, and know bringing Tie Interceptors is no longer viable. Soontir is falling to second tier. There's a place for Carnor but he's so fragile. Forget any other Interceptor. These where the ships that brought me to the game...

I've noted that much squad building I see today resembles deck building, people looking for the next "Dengaroo" - a ship whose abilities that combine in such a way that overcomes the enemy with red dice and mitigates their defence.

There's been some muted talk of X-Wing 2.0... maybe it's time to think about that. Wipe the board and:

- Remove palp

- Make turrets a movable arc

- rehabilitate ships not being flown anymore such as the T-65, B-Wing, A-Wing...

- Reset so the vast majority of ships can be competitive

- Reduce the complexity of mechanics and effects

- Price things such as Zuckuss appropriately

Biggs says what up

It's his ability, not the ship. Also FFG consider his impact on the meta too large - significantly warps it.

You can't joust or dog fight with a T-65 in current meta.

More T-65 pilots are used than T-70 pilots.

Biggs and Wes = 2 pilots

Poe = 1 pilot

TIL that Jake did not in fact make top four of worlds.

Based on current history whatever they do to the T-65 will probably propel it to TIE defender levels. They're probably just waiting for the Rogue One tie-in.

More T-65 pilots are used than T-70 pilots.

Biggs and Wes = 2 pilots

Poe = 1 pilot

But Poe is actually 2 pilots. You got Poe8 and Poe9

I do see my future in this game as limited due to these concerns. There just isn't room for squadron vs squadron dogfights anymore. (at least in the competitive level. which is the majority of the games I have access to outside of my house)

Your definition of the top tier meta is... incredibly narrow. I mean, even MajorJuggler's analysis looks well beyond the top 4.

And Biggs will always have a place in the meta.

More T-65 pilots are used than T-70 pilots.

Biggs and Wes = 2 pilots

Poe = 1 pilot

But Poe is actually 2 pilots. You got Poe8 and Poe9

And Poe is apperently, through rumor, to be Poe7

More T-65 pilots are used than T-70 pilots.

Biggs and Wes = 2 pilots

Poe = 1 pilot

But Poe is actually 2 pilots. You got Poe8 and Poe9

Are you saying Poe is biPOElar?

And yes, I deserve to be hated for that one.

The T-65 must be sooooo close to being a powerhouse in some combination if they continue to refuse to fix it.

I do see my future in this game as limited due to these concerns. There just isn't room for squadron vs squadron dogfights anymore. (at least in the competitive level. which is the majority of the games I have access to outside of my house)

It doesn't have to be. Build up the casual scene.

The pessimist in me sees the handwriting on the wall for the end of X-Wing as we know it now. My opinion of the new "conditions" being introduced to keep it fresh, is jumping the shark tank. While the competitive environment brings the most exposure to the game, it's the casual players that bring the most support. The complexity of the game has evolved faster than the game has and cycling developers in and out has caused problems in the wording on cards.

A new person thinking of getting into X-Wing, even for casual play, is in an unenviable position. Ten Waves of ships plus several more specials, huge ships and veteran packs not to mention hundreds of pilot and upgrade cards. Then to further addle the brain an FAQ that's needed to explain "corrections" made to the cards. The frosting on this inedible cake is the flow chart that's now needed to handle the "who does what when and why" question of combat.

IMHO X-Wing is in danger of losing the support of the beer and pretzel crowd and is putting up barriers to the new blood thinking of getting into the game. Some of these threads aren't helping either. This isn't an attack on anyone just an observation.

New players or potential new players will read some of these threads and not realise that most of the comments about the playability of certain lists and ships are made by competitive players. Comments like "it's an auto lose to Palp Aces" don't help our cause either.

Do I have a solution? Nope.Just more observations. I think the frantic pace of releases to coincide with the movies is going to be detrimental to the game in the long run. I understand it from a business perspective but I don't have to agree with it. Will there be an X-Wing 2.0? What will it look like? I don't have the answer for those questions but one I'd like to ask. If there's going to be an X-Wing 2.0, how many of us will buy into it?

Rant over.

The pessimist in me sees the handwriting on the wall for the end of X-Wing as we know it now.

Yeah...that happened to me a few waves ago.

So with the OT firmly behind us and Disney releasing new movies every year I think it is safe to say that those cinematic battles from Episodes IV through VI are gone.

The pessimist in me sees the handwriting on the wall for the end of X-Wing as we know it now. My opinion of the new "conditions" being introduced to keep it fresh, is jumping the shark tank. While the competitive environment brings the most exposure to the game, it's the casual players that bring the most support. The complexity of the game has evolved faster than the game has and cycling developers in and out has caused problems in the wording on cards.

A new person thinking of getting into X-Wing, even for casual play, is in an unenviable position. Ten Waves of ships plus several more specials, huge ships and veteran packs not to mention hundreds of pilot and upgrade cards. Then to further addle the brain an FAQ that's needed to explain "corrections" made to the cards. The frosting on this inedible cake is the flow chart that's now needed to handle the "who does what when and why" question of combat.

IMHO X-Wing is in danger of losing the support of the beer and pretzel crowd and is putting up barriers to the new blood thinking of getting into the game. Some of these threads aren't helping either. This isn't an attack on anyone just an observation.

New players or potential new players will read some of these threads and not realise that most of the comments about the playability of certain lists and ships are made by competitive players. Comments like "it's an auto lose to Palp Aces" don't help our cause either.

Do I have a solution? Nope.Just more observations. I think the frantic pace of releases to coincide with the movies is going to be detrimental to the game in the long run. I understand it from a business perspective but I don't have to agree with it. Will there be an X-Wing 2.0? What will it look like? I don't have the answer for those questions but one I'd like to ask. If there's going to be an X-Wing 2.0, how many of us will buy into it?

Rant over.

Honestly, X-wing hasn't cycled through developers that much. Alex and Frank have been the guiding hands pretty much Wave 5 through 9. And new blood tends to be good for the game. You may see it as the game getting too complex, but I am seeing a great new wave of creativity in the design. The designs in 9 and 10 are just great.

As for the timing chart, are you seriously criticizing the game for actually getting grown up rules? A timing chart like that is just good rules. Especially when you are still trying to figure out a good way for certain cards to fit within the rules (hello Cluster Missiles). I fail to see how having working rules, with clear guidelines for the developers to go off of, is a bad thing or against the casual crowd. I'm sorry, X-wing launched with a lot of "ruling by intent" type stuff that Alex and Frank had to fix for quite some time.

And the amount of errata in the FAQ is overblown.

So with the OT firmly behind us and Disney releasing new movies every year I think it is safe to say that those cinematic battles from Episodes IV through VI are gone.

Except that every second movie will be set in the OT period.

Okay so short of a Disney Special Edition can you show me a scene with an U-wing or a TIE Striker in Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, or Return of the Jedi? Not eve G. Lucas put them in the OT.

The point is X-wing and the expansion wave business model is very vulnerable to accretion. Actually that is probably putting it in the wrong term. Accretion is more of a necessity than a liability but in being such a necessity it brings liabilities of its own. FFG has to continuously add new stuff on top of the old stuff and just let the old stuff get buried into oblivion.

Speaking as a 'new guy' (having started last Christmas), X-Wing isn't a complicated game.

There are certain aspects that maybe should have been handled better when the game was being invented (turrets and post - manoeuvre reposition), but overall it's a superb game and works nicely for most types of gaming.

Tournaments, casual, epic; older people, middle-aged, kids - even my 6 year old can play and enjoy herself!

I do seem to have got a bit carried away, mind you. Or so my wife says.

This topic is clearly dedicated to laziness.

Because, when you see statements like:

They're usually followed by statements like:

...but is that merely a corner case - an example of superb flying and practice overcoming the shortcomings of the ships?

...so when someone does well with a T-65, a TIE/ln, the original Falcons, A-Wings, B-Wings, Z-95, TIE Interceptors or - God forbid - the Kihraxz, they're handwaved as a one off, as an exception, rather than the norm.

Personal experience, practice and ability does not count for nothing in this game; it's just that a vast majority of players prefer not to take a risk (or put in the effort) and so latch on to the latest netlist fad.

Lazy players follow the meta. Dedicated players create the meta. If you want to see more of a particular ship in the game, find the synergies, put in the time and the effort. Make it work.

Defenders were at endor.