Topic of another thread got me thinking,

What if there were unique pilots with NEGATIVE pilot abilities that actually made them CHEAPER than they should be?

Like Threepio as a PS1 Falcon pilot with some ability that makes him mess up occasionally or can't perform certain maneuvers and he's actually less points than an ORS.

They'd either go completely unused like Fel's Wrath (or about 80% of named pilots generally) or their negatives would be quickly obviated to the point where their cheapness wildly overpowered them.

It's REALLY tough to balance negative costs for negative abilities.

Topic of another thread got me thinking,

What if there were unique pilots with NEGATIVE pilot abilities that actually made them CHEAPER than they should be?

Like Threepio as a PS1 Falcon pilot with some ability that makes him mess up occasionally or can't perform certain maneuvers and he's actually less points than an ORS.

The outer rim smuggler has a huge negative ability of -10 points. His ability is -1Attack, -2hull, -1shield. Yet people still don't use him. Though there was a fringe list of BlockORS that made use of those 10 extra points.

Yeah, pretty much any negative ability would be DOA or easily mitigated to be broken.

C3P0 would probably have some RNG to make him potentially do less damage or evade less, both of which would make him unplayable. An RNG on top of RNG to do anything? thats asking for a failed attempt every time.

But, say if an Interceptor had -1 red die at range3 when attacking and no +1 green when defending, if its cheap enough people would STILL bring it and just use it as a glass cannon/distraction, since theyre still durable enough w/o SD/Autos to often take more than 1 attack to remove, especially if its barrelroll/boosting out of arcs (difficult due to inevitable low PS but possible).

Pretty much any "cant mod your dice" type ability would be DOA, unless it was so cheap it broke common sense on base costs lol (8pt PS1 TIE/ln, cant mod dice. You could EASILY put that in any list as a blocker and not care about him)

I could see a negative that balances a strong ability instead of one that reduces the cost to take the pilot.

Topic of another thread got me thinking,

What if there were unique pilots with NEGATIVE pilot abilities that actually made them CHEAPER than they should be?

Like Threepio as a PS1 Falcon pilot with some ability that makes him mess up occasionally or can't perform certain maneuvers and he's actually less points than an ORS.

The outer rim smuggler has a huge negative ability of -10 points. His ability is -1Attack, -2hull, -1shield. Yet people still don't use him. Though there was a fringe list of BlockORS that made use of those 10 extra points.

I think that this is correct and a good way of pointing out that the idea could work. The ORS isn't used, but surely he would be used at some point cost; it's just that -10 points is apparently not enough of a discount.

If the ORS had an EPT or something other than Crew, you could probably get it to be pretty good. Problem with generics and crew slots is majority of the reasons you want crew are unique.

If they had an EPT, especially come Wave10, Rage + Inspiring on them all with bumper powers would be awesome as hell.

Topic of another thread got me thinking,

What if there were unique pilots with NEGATIVE pilot abilities that actually made them CHEAPER than they should be?

Like Threepio as a PS1 Falcon pilot with some ability that makes him mess up occasionally or can't perform certain maneuvers and he's actually less points than an ORS.

The outer rim smuggler has a huge negative ability of -10 points. His ability is -1Attack, -2hull, -1shield. Yet people still don't use him. Though there was a fringe list of BlockORS that made use of those 10 extra points.

People don't use the ORS because it's still 27 points, which is a large chunk of a list, and it doesn't provide value comparable to what 27 points can get you for 3-ship Rebels

Being discounted doesn't carry any intrinsic value. Point differentials and values become relevant based on two factors, not just one:

% discount of total.

% cost of list

ORS still takes up just over a quarter of 100 points. Being discounted doesn't give it value. A GSP A-Wing with the refit can suddenly fit two EPTs and potentially cost 20 points or less. Being discounted increased its value to the list, and now you see GSPs in more tournament lists.

If you want to talk about ORS you also should throw in the Wild Space Fringer and Contracted Scout for a nice comparison of 2 die PWT ships.

ORS: 27 points, PS1, 10 hitpoints (6/4), 1 agility, crew, CREW, possible Illicit w/ Smuggling Compartment

WSF: 30 points, PS2, 10 hitpoints (5/5), 2 agility, Barrel Roll Action, speed 3 turns, crew, CANNON, missile

CS: 25 points, PS3, 9 hitpoints (5/4), 2 agility, Barrel Roll, 6 green maneuvers instead of 4, speed 2 s-loops w/ one white, crew, EPT, ILLICIT, Salvaged ASTROMECH, Torpedoe x2

I guess we can see how much a ship may need to get played. Filling the modification slot of the ORS and CS we can get all to a 2 die PWT, 2 agility (granted one will be temporary), and 10 hitpoints but the CS will still come in under 30 points. What advantage does the ORS have over either of the other ships? It has one more crew although the Astromech in a near equivalent. Beside that both the newer ships have better dials and available actions plus the ability to add firepower. What put the CS into nerf worthy consideration is probably the EPT.

Granted the Scout is possibly at the higher end when it comes to power levels, especially pre-nerf, what kind of point reductions would the ORS and WSF need to have to even see any appreciable play?

If you want to talk about ORS you also should throw in the Wild Space Fringer and Contracted Scout for a nice comparison of 2 die PWT ships.

ORS: 27 points, PS1, 10 hitpoints (6/4), 1 agility, crew, CREW, possible Illicit w/ Smuggling Compartment

WSF: 30 points, PS2, 10 hitpoints (5/5), 2 agility, Barrel Roll Action, speed 3 turns, crew, CANNON, missile

CS: 25 points, PS3, 9 hitpoints (5/4), 2 agility, Barrel Roll, 6 green maneuvers instead of 4, speed 2 s-loops w/ one white, crew, EPT, ILLICIT, Salvaged ASTROMECH, Torpedoe x2

I guess we can see how much a ship may need to get played. Filling the modification slot of the ORS and CS we can get all to a 2 die PWT, 2 agility (granted one will be temporary), and 10 hitpoints but the CS will still come in under 30 points. What advantage does the ORS have over either of the other ships? It has one more crew although the Astromech in a near equivalent. Beside that both the newer ships have better dials and available actions plus the ability to add firepower. What put the CS into nerf worthy consideration is probably the EPT.

Granted the Scout is possibly at the higher end when it comes to power levels, especially pre-nerf, what kind of point reductions would the ORS and WSF need to have to even see any appreciable play?

What really makes the difference in this case is the mix of lower cost, barrel roll, and EPT on the Contracted scout. You can run three in a list, with substantial upgrades on each. While the WSF has barrel roll, the dial on the JM5K is probably better, and the pancake has EPT, is cheaper and has higher PS. The increase from 2 to 3 does makes a difference against swarms, for example when triple U-Boats came up againt quad TLT. The ORS really has nothing going for it, because it has no pilot ability for the 2 crew slots to synergise with. And those crew are the only think making it better than the other two ships.

Would the ORS see play at 21 points? Maybe 20 points? Perhaps 23 points is as low as it can go but then you're comparing it to lowest K-Wing and upcoming U-Wing. At what point does having two crew slots on a ship that can spin and shoot become worth taking? When it comes to just having two crew the U-Wing will soon take over that.