Is is just me or was anyone else annoyed when they openned their Adventurer's Toolkit and found it didn't come with a tuck box for the 4th players!!! Isn't that the whole reason for the AT... to get the cards you need to have the fourth PC that the game implies is standard.

While I like the mechanics of this system I'm not impressed with the marketing strategy. Elves with no magic! No dwarven magic at all (think then mention runesmiths). Only human mages or priests and only three types at that. No box for the 4th player. Its like their spreading everything out to make sure you buy all the supliments. How long will we have to wait to get these options and when will they be coming. Don't see much on the release schedule anytime soon.

Also where is the world info. Chapter 10 doesn't cut it for someone new to the Warhammer universe. Very often as I read through the rules I feel like I'm missing something because I'm new to the setting and don't get the references. Chapter 10 barely scratches the Empire and only teases at the world?

Want to like this game but it feels like there is still so much missing? Anyone else feel this way?

Wraith428

Well the box itself is kind of the "tuckbox" for the 4th player, I know it seems a little "heemph", but its not that important. What is really there for the 4th player is basic action cards like melee attack, dodge, block ect. And a whole lot of new career options.

I actually would prefer if all the tuck boxes where as large and sturdy as the box for the toolkit. In fact, as new boxes of that size come out, we'll swap the tuck boxes. Then PCs can keep their dice and other notes, pencils, minis, etc in the box.

As for the setting material; yeah, the core set has very little to offer beyond some general info. I will say it is much better than what D&D 3.5 offered, and more so than quite a few other core book systems, but nowhere near as much material as WFRP v1. I do imagine they will be putting out more setting info in due course.

The AT box itself is for the 4th player I think. Not a bad box actually.

Yes - there is a lot missing - I have a softcover dated 1986 on the shelf next to me, 360+ pages - assume it is 1st edition?

Anyway, it has far more background than the new set - I think they could have been better served making the magic and faith guides a world guide instead, especially given the dearth of classes in those two areas - then had the tomes for magic and faith in an early expansion that added the missing classes.

That said, I like what they have done so far and am looking forward to seeing the system get fleshed out, as long as it is sooner rather than later.

I think FFG are aiming the core set at a very small area of the Empire (The Reikland to be precise), and covering that area in some detail rather than having a little detail about all areas of the Empire.

You could argue even the Reikland isn't covered in a great deal of detail in the Core Set, but I'm sure that will be expanded upon in the Stromdorf campaign set.

I also get the impression this isn't too different to the majority of games produced these days; the core set contains the rule and enough back ground to get you started, further back ground comes in future (costing more money) supplements.

The 1st edition rule book did have loads on info in it but is was written back in the 80's as you say; the whole finanical climate of RPGs has changed over that 20 years, and there is no getting away from that.

The core set does have plenty of back ground though, some in the books, some on the back of the career cards, some in the adventures, but it certainly needs expanding upon, but as I say I think FFG are currently aiming the set as low key, localised adventures rather than globe spanning escapades.

You mean the little white cardboard packing didn't cut it Although I don't use those things (we use zyplock bags instead), I hear you

Jay

wraith428 said:

I feel the same way. Seem like my core set is more of a promo set or LCC RPG verison.

There's only one reason they decided to change the game with all cards and counters. To rope in boardgamers (of which FFG knew they already had a lion's share - so why not tap that source) along with roleplayers. Why? So they can make more money from boardgamers. There's only one reason why they decided to leave out the material that they did - and only reveal a small portion of the empire with drip releases in the shape of more boxes. Why? to make more money out of boardgamers and roleplayers.

On one hand I see nothing wrong with that from a business point of view. But I couldn't care about that because I'm on the receiving end of their money making scheme. I'm a consumer.

For me at least the game itself was a secondary project, and lacks the labour of love so evident in much smaller packaged indie games. Yes 3ed is all glitzy and nice to look at, and yes the mechanics are a step forward, but at what price? Last I looked, £70. 3ed feels souless and love less to me.

Believe it or not, this is not a flame, just my opinion, and I fully intend buying this beast at a later date. But that's how I feel about it.

I think your are wrong, Ratcatcher. Yes, obviously, FF wants to make money with WH. If not, they would be silly. Now, forget your wrong point of view and try understand a bit beyond.

They want to do money, but it is a lot easier to produce the old WH 2nd Edition, with no risk. Not the economic inversion and risk that WH3 have been. More: they wanted to create a new thing, a new aproximation to RPG being of their own. They product excellent board games with a lot of rpg flavour like Descent, Runebound, Runewars, Warcraft, etc... WH3 is the first real new step of FF in the RPG industry. And it was not only a matter of money. YOU ARE VERY VERY WRONG, Ratcatcher. It is matter of creativity, of to go beyond in the industry of Roleplaying, allowing with us a dazzling new way to rolepaly inspired in thir own board games, but yet, and this is great, nearer to roleplaying, imaginative and abstract roleplaying than any other RPG before.

Said this well, i hope you understand me. I am from Madrid, Spain, Europe. English is not my idiom!

arkiva said:

You shouldn't need rules to help govern the roleplaying aspect, though some may need them.

Beside the creativity, I'm quite agree with Ratcatcher : the marketing policy of FFG is not really fair. I'm totally convinced that WFRP is a great game, my players and I loved to play it. But speaking only of marketing strategy, well...

My point is Adventurer Toolkit is a GM thing. Why ? Because if you play a 3PC adventure with the corebox only, GM hasn't his own set of basic cards. So as a GM I the basic card set is this supplement has become mine (my preciouuuuussss...)

zuzul said:

I'm curious. What do you mean by "fair"? Do you mean 'financially accessible to everyone who wishes to play it'?

See this thread : http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=149&efcid=3&efidt=276149. i'm wainting (as many here) from an answer from FFG to see the future of WFRP for me.