2 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

I making no such accusation. Even if you accept their explanation that they pay a different rate for boxes ordered at singles the reality is they were still ordering boxes for singles while they had a growing number of orders sitting unfilled. If they had stopped splitting their order between single and sealed they would have been able to fill more of these orders.

This. When you have 470 pre-orders hanging up, you should not crack open booster boxs for single, you fufill your pre-order with all the stuff you can.

2 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

I making no such accusation. Even if you accept their explanation that they pay a different rate for boxes ordered at singles the reality is they were still ordering boxes for singles while they had a growing number of orders sitting unfilled. If they had stopped splitting their order between single and sealed they would have been able to fill more of these orders.

You're still making the assumption that MM was actively buying boxes for singles as opposed to FFG prioritizing the fulfillment of single orders for resellers in favor of retail booster packs and boxes. How do you know they were splitting their orders? How do you know that if they had, they'd have been able to fulfill more customer orders?

1 hour ago, KalEl814 said:

You're still making the assumption that MM was actively buying boxes for singles as opposed to FFG prioritizing the fulfillment of single orders for resellers in favor of retail booster packs and boxes. How do you know they were splitting their orders? How do you know that if they had, they'd have been able to fulfill more customer orders?

Well, they are currently showing 143 legendaries in stock. 9 Vader, 9 chokes, 11 owtf, 8 detonators, etc. I obviously am not privy to how many of those were taken back as credit or whatever, but 143/6 is at least 23-24 boxes that probably could have been filled as preorders. Lord knows what that inventory looked like weeks ago.

1 hour ago, nismojoe said:

Well, they are currently showing 143 legendaries in stock. 9 Vader, 9 chokes, 11 owtf, 8 detonators, etc. I obviously am not privy to how many of those were taken back as credit or whatever, but 143/6 is at least 23-24 boxes that probably could have been filled as preorders. Lord knows what that inventory looked like weeks ago.

Well, it looks like they just re-stocked, because they'd been sold out until about an hour or two ago.

That's some ironic timing at the very least.

Most likely at this point those are singles they bought off of people and are reselling. I am hugely disappointed with how MM handle their pre-orders and how they continue to handle them, but buying and selling singles is their business, so no need to bash them for doing that in general.

11 hours ago, nismojoe said:

Well, they are currently showing 143 legendaries in stock. 9 Vader, 9 chokes, 11 owtf, 8 detonators, etc. I obviously am not privy to how many of those were taken back as credit or whatever, but 143/6 is at least 23-24 boxes that probably could have been filled as preorders. Lord knows what that inventory looked like weeks ago.

MM has addressed something behind this here, too. They pay different prices for stock they will sell as singles compared to stock that they will sell directly to their customers. You're assuming they could use one pool to fulfill orders from another. That does not appear to be the case based on what they've told us.

15 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

X-wing had both product delays and shortages within their first two Waves. Do you not remember them having to air freight over some of Wave 2 in order to hold a limited prerelease event to try and stem the discontent?

So why would suffering through just shortages, though not delays, prevent this game from being as big as X-wing when X-wing had to deal with both issues?

Very true. X-wing was slow to start. I also think it was the 3rd wave push and all the new hype and support FFG created for X-wing that helped save it at that point. The very same thing can happen for Destiny.

A big difference though is X-wing is not a CCG! If only a limited amount of players amass a decent collection of the first two sets, the third set (if that is where stock finally stops being an issue) will have to be a relaunch of sorts. Or, FFG might contemplate reprinting older sets and starters. Point is, it won't be as easy as just getting more models printed this time. I'm sure FFG is up to the task. We, the players, are excited and ready for the manufacturing growing pains to end.

2 hours ago, Stone37 said:

Very true. X-wing was slow to start. I also think it was the 3rd wave push and all the new hype and support FFG created for X-wing that helped save it at that point. The very same thing can happen for Destiny.

A big difference though is X-wing is not a CCG! If only a limited amount of players amass a decent collection of the first two sets, the third set (if that is where stock finally stops being an issue) will have to be a relaunch of sorts. Or, FFG might contemplate reprinting older sets and starters. Point is, it won't be as easy as just getting more models printed this time. I'm sure FFG is up to the task. We, the players, are excited and ready for the manufacturing growing pains to end.

I agree I think it's a bit of a different situation because X-Wing is a non-randomised game that can be bought and started at any point in time, so there is a more constant level of interest and activity, a bit more like a board game. People can usually find X-Wing players in their local town, even years after initial release.

With a model like SW:Destiny, with a more dynamic meta game, if it doesn't keep the initial hype it will fizzle out as people stop playing (or are unable to start) and in 6 months time the player base will be so small that it will be very difficult to find opponents. In other words it's much more reliant on available, regular releases.

3 hours ago, KalEl814 said:

MM has addressed something behind this here, too. They pay different prices for stock they will sell as singles compared to stock that they will sell directly to their customers. You're assuming they could use one pool to fulfill orders from another. That does not appear to be the case based on what they've told us.

True, but it seems like it would have been smarter to only order stock for boxes rather than allocating some for singles right out of the gate. Having singles available doesn't do a lot of good if people can't get sufficient quantities of the product to know what singles they need.

Just now, DailyRich said:

True, but it seems like it would have been smarter to only order stock for boxes rather than allocating some for singles right out of the gate. Having singles available doesn't do a lot of good if people can't get sufficient quantities of the product to know what singles they need.

Would you prefer they order 100% booster boxes for sale, and 0% for singles? Then, after cracking the additional boxes that they were able to generously put out in the community, every player who was still in need of singles would be forced to look to their competitors. Doesn't sounds like how I'd want to do things if it were my store. /shrug

Everyone wishes there was more product out there, but MM has made an effort to communicate their end of the story. Even if they're not handling things flawless, or exactly the same as you might, I think we're overdoing it a bit with the amount we're trying to vilify them.

Let's all just get along and be grateful that a really fun game is taking off like a rocket, yeah? Keep the positive vibes flowing through a rocky start and we might just be able to have a thriving game, with plenty of product and a good community, in the near future.

2 hours ago, Stone37 said:

Very true. X-wing was slow to start. I also think it was the 3rd wave push and all the new hype and support FFG created for X-wing that helped save it at that point. The very same thing can happen for Destiny.

A big difference though is X-wing is not a CCG! If only a limited amount of players amass a decent collection of the first two sets, the third set (if that is where stock finally stops being an issue) will have to be a relaunch of sorts. Or, FFG might contemplate reprinting older sets and starters. Point is, it won't be as easy as just getting more models printed this time. I'm sure FFG is up to the task. We, the players, are excited and ready for the manufacturing growing pains to end.

I didn't get into x-wing on the first release of the first wave because while interested, I was uncertain if it would take off in my area or anywhere for that matter. If I remember correct, I couldn't get an x-wing starter for the first 4-6 months and due to the new system and product shortage in my area people didn't have very much in the way of extras to share either. It was hard to get a game and the variety of builds in the early days was much weaker than what Destiny offers with a single set. It was an inauspicious beginning.

Fast forward to today. I don't even want to count how many ships I have or how much money I've spent on x-wing. X-wing was where I learned my lesson about FFG product launches, a lesson that still serves me well today as I moved quickly to get enough Destiny product to be a supplier for others who didn't. I only took out of the local supply what I preordered, even offered to reduce my preorder so other local players could get more. I started buying singles online early when they were much cheaper than they are now. The end result is I've invested more in Destiny than I originally planned, but I can supplement the stock on weekends and help keep my local people without enough product engaged in the game.

22 hours ago, KalEl814 said:

They didn't say they assumed a certain amount of supply. They said they were under the impression that there would be a steady flow of product. That's a meaningful distinction.

Clearly they assumed they would be receiving at least 470 more boxes than they got, or at least I hope that was the case. If they flat out knew they would never get that supply and sold it anyways.......

No one else was 'under the impression' of additional shipments since FFG clearly stated only the 4 shipments. MM may have lead themselves to be under false impressions that caused them to make up the February shipment but rest assured, they made it up. No one else, not even FFG's own store said anything about a Feb shipment, only MM.

Many people, including myself, assume FFG will print more awakening. I would never run off and sell a bunch of boxes that don't exist to people and collect their money based on that assumption. When (or even if) FFG prints more, all the retailers need to have solid information, not stuff they just make up, about shipment dates and quantities before taking anyone's money so they have a reasonable expectation of fulfilling those orders. Sure, crap happens, the truck can crash and those boxes may go up in flames. We can all hold a vigil to morn the loss of our Destiny and not blame the retailer but when they just start making stuff up, come on now.

I like MM. They have an excellent website, save for those horrid menus, and they sell all the toys we love. I perfectly understand why people like them since I do to. That doesn't mean anyone should go all fanboy on them and give them a free pass when they screw up big, otherwise it gives them a free pass to screw up even more and then that great little website that sells all our favorite toys turns to crap.

3 hours ago, DailyRich said:

True, but it seems like it would have been smarter to only order stock for boxes rather than allocating some for singles right out of the gate. Having singles available doesn't do a lot of good if people can't get sufficient quantities of the product to know what singles they need.

FYI, on MM web page you can find the "Buy Back" link where you can sell them your Destiny cards. I have zero experience selling them cards, so I have no idea how good they are at it. I clearly don't recommend anyone pre-ordering anything from them. At this point a lot of their stock is probably from them buying cards from people. The boxes they cracked open for singles ran dry a couple of weeks ago unless they stashed a ton of boxes and it just took them another two week to get to them.

They do this with Magic as well, they clearly are in the singles market and will be regardless of the source of their supply. At this point the secondary singles market is the only source for cards. MM does have a nice website for searching and looking at all the different Destiny cards. So you can get a good idea of what does what.

Just got this in an email from MM.

On 2/1/2017 at 10:22 PM, Mep said:

I'm sure they'll give you your money back. Hope you didn't get hit with any CC interest on that free loan you gave them, but I am sure there were more than a few that did.

Of course they'll give me back my money, that was my point. And really, anybody borrowing money to pay for games doesn't have their priorities right.

But yeah, I'm all for holding companies accountable, but FFG also has their fair share of blame. MM has been in the business for many years and knows the CCG game. Sure, they probably assumed a decent amount of product like Magic has. I really doubt if FFG was more honest about how much product they had then MM wouldn't have oversold... by 470 at least. And that's part of my gripe, NOBODY seems to know when we get more product, that's on FFG. If they have to come out and say we underestimated the demand and are working on getting more out by October(pulling an MM here), just do so.

And yeah, I laughed at that MM email. I unsubscribed, marked other on the reason, and told them to F- off. They were my go to for games, I love the customer service and their style, but that just felt like a slap to the nuts.

28 minutes ago, DailyRich said:

Just got this in an email from MM.

Isn't that nice. Wish I could restock my singles. When is FF gonna say something about stock coming in? I'm about ready to quit this game. I can't build decent decks with what I own. I've had a preorder with MM since 12/28. It said early January release when I placed my order (and while MM said everyone got those orders that's BS). Fed up at this point. Lack of communication from FF is getting ridiculous. I even emailed them and they sent me a link to all upcoming releases and didn't answer my question. Awakenings isn't on there. So either they aren't making anymore or it's not updated. If they aren't making anymore I'm done! Not paying secondary market prices for this while I wait for SOR to be released. Why can't FF COMMENT ON THIS! Ridiculous. Never been this annoyed before. I get that they have a popular game but to not send out a press release or post something about the state of the game is just ridiculous. Horrible management or they just don't care about their customers. In any case rant over. Sorry just extremely frustrated right now...especially after seeing this email. Rub it in MM.

Wow, talk about rubbing it in.

16 minutes ago, Mep said:

Clearly they assumed they would be receiving at least 470 more boxes than they got, or at least I hope that was the case. If they flat out knew they would never get that supply and sold it anyways.......

No one else was 'under the impression' of additional shipments since FFG clearly stated only the 4 shipments. MM may have lead themselves to be under false impressions that caused them to make up the February shipment but rest assured, they made it up. No one else, not even FFG's own store said anything about a Feb shipment, only MM.

Many people, including myself, assume FFG will print more awakening. I would never run off and sell a bunch of boxes that don't exist to people and collect their money based on that assumption. When (or even if) FFG prints more, all the retailers need to have solid information, not stuff they just make up, about shipment dates and quantities before taking anyone's money so they have a reasonable expectation of fulfilling those orders. Sure, crap happens, the truck can crash and those boxes may go up in flames. We can all hold a vigil to morn the loss of our Destiny and not blame the retailer but when they just start making stuff up, come on now.

I like MM. They have an excellent website, save for those horrid menus, and they sell all the toys we love. I perfectly understand why people like them since I do to. That doesn't mean anyone should go all fanboy on them and give them a free pass when they screw up big, otherwise it gives them a free pass to screw up even more and then that great little website that sells all our favorite toys turns to crap.

I don't think I'm going fanboy on them. I've placed three orders with them total and have given them roughly $200 worth of business. I just think it's lousy when they've been put into a bad position due to supply issues, have been open about their processes, how they're looking to remedy the situation, and people still openly speculate about whether or not they're honest, wonder if they're profiting off of singles that came from customer preorders, etc. Maybe I've just worked too long at a company that's been put in similar situations too long to not say something, who knows.

I have no issue with MM buying and selling singles, even if their add is a bit funny. While I don't know if MM was ever told, "hey, you will get exactly X boxes in" and they only sold X boxes, considering they made up that Feb shipment, I doubt they were ever told how much they would get in. The reality is FFG has made a strong commitment to LGSs and isn't supporting the online business that much as the LGSs are the ones who keep FFG in business. LFGs tend to put orders in late, so there is no way for MM to be given a realistic number months in advance when they are taking pre-orders. The numbers are very fluid and MM knows this but didn't act accordingly. That is all on them. This is a new game, new manufacturing processes, unknown demand and I am sure Disney wants those products out when the movies come out, so FFG's job was very difficult to guess demand and build up brand new manufacturing while meeting the license holder's deadline. Not over selling pre-orders, pretty damn easy to do. Blaming FFG for a retailer screw up isn't fair.

The new year is almost over, we'll be hearing something new soon. I am sure in the coming year FFG will ramp up production on this game so there will be plenty to go around when The Last Jedi hits.

11 hours ago, KalEl814 said:

They pay different prices for stock they will sell as singles compared to stock that they will sell directly to their customers.

Can anyone offer proof of this other than MM 'says so'? I realize rules regarding MM are a little different than for FLGS, but it's hard to imagine that MM would have to pay more for boosters just because they say upfront they want to open them and sell them as singles.

Yes the volumes are very different but can a distributor or FFG themselves tell a FLGS that they can't open a booster box and then in turn open the boosters so they can sell the single cards? I would imagine the FLGS would tell them to jump in the lake and not buy that product.

Now take a company that orders as much as 100 FLGS stores do at once, maybe more and then be told that they can't open their own product? MM is not a distributor. They buy the product and they sell that same product. I'm sure there are rules on not being able to sell below a certain price or ship out of the country. But it's hard to believe they have to pay two different prices for the same item because they want to sell singles. Is there FFG staff in-house that looks at each box and see if it's shipped out to a customer or opened instead?

That statement of having two different skus for the same item and that they pay more for it so they can open it after they buy it is just a smokescreen to calm down those who are mad after realizing that they didn't get their preorders because MM wanted to cash in on the singles market.

3 hours ago, Phrome22 said:

Lack of communication from FF is getting ridiculous...

....Why can't FF COMMENT ON THIS! Ridiculous. Never been this annoyed before. I get that they have a popular game but to not send out a press release or post something about the state of the game is just ridiculous. Horrible management or they just don't care about their customers.

Agreed.

Or FFGs comments will confirm the worst and they would rather say nothing and let a few of us bemoan the lack of stock. Versus the outrage of our community if awakenings is out of print.

I know how you all feel...I can't wait to get my next fix either. My dealer has been without supply for a couple weeks now. There's nothing like ripping open that pack and smelling that fresh paint on the cardboard and seeing what plastic die is gonna roll out into my trembling hands. Now I gotta go to these other dealers just to get a little fix! I haven't paid my bills for months because I bought 3 cases. I hardly eat anymore and they just turned off my heat. But that's alright, I can burn the cardboard inserts to stay warm. I feel your pain guys...I really do.

7 hours ago, Mep said:

I have no issue with MM buying and selling singles, even if their add is a bit funny. While I don't know if MM was ever told, "hey, you will get exactly X boxes in" and they only sold X boxes, considering they made up that Feb shipment, I doubt they were ever told how much they would get in. The reality is FFG has made a strong commitment to LGSs and isn't supporting the online business that much as the LGSs are the ones who keep FFG in business. LFGs tend to put orders in late, so there is no way for MM to be given a realistic number months in advance when they are taking pre-orders. The numbers are very fluid and MM knows this but didn't act accordingly. That is all on them. This is a new game, new manufacturing processes, unknown demand and I am sure Disney wants those products out when the movies come out, so FFG's job was very difficult to guess demand and build up brand new manufacturing while meeting the license holder's deadline. Not over selling pre-orders, pretty damn easy to do. Blaming FFG for a retailer screw up isn't fair.

The new year is almost over, we'll be hearing something new soon. I am sure in the coming year FFG will ramp up production on this game so there will be plenty to go around when The Last Jedi hits.

If it's not fixed way BEFORE the last jedi hits it will cut in half what this game could of been sadly that's way to long to keep my interest and many others