Is this a worthwhile upgrade?

2 pts to get an evade, at the price of another defensive token.

I'm a bit divided.

First of all you need that officer slot free. That's not always the case. But lets say you do.

He can be useful on the ISD (mostly ISD-Is in my case, to shore up they crap defensive suite). The evade can save you quite a few dmg from TRC madness, for example. And you simply forego swapping out the contain if you meet too many angry bombers.

VSDs don't have any tokens to spare really, but I guess you could swap out a redirect. Not ideal, but not entirely wasted.

Interdictors could sure use him. Two contains is often one too many.

So, anyone use this guy?

His best home seems to be the Interdictor. At 2 points, he is a decent upgrade for it.

I see him on ISD1s and ISD2s with TRCs occasionally. Not really worth it there

I'll only use him if I am going to make a TRC ISD/Vic.

Tagge

I have used him on VSDs and ISDs running TRC. I am also using tagge as my commander, there have been a few different variations.

So most TRCs shenanigans?

No one using him to counter TRC spam*? Or is that not so common anymore?

*Tagge seems a good fit here.

For TRC spam, he only works once per round (assuming you don't burn it), unless you're playing Tagge. It does add up over time, say 10 damage if you get shot at every round after the first round.

For 2 points, that's pretty significant---but that's assuming every round from long range. And it also works against other fleet types, but does absolutely nothing against black dice ships, which are a very present and clear danger. And there are better Officer options for dealing with those, like Intel Officer, which works against every ship at every range. Sometimes a strong offense is the best defense.

But with the Arquitens, I could see Needa providing a double evade platform for TRC madness (assuming it isn't already a double evade). That would be a solid use.

Arquitens Will love him with trc, given it has a turbolaser slot.

needa plus turbo reroute circuits on an ISD2 with gunnery teams

If you're running a pair of Interdictors, maybe, but Wulff is glued to the Officer spot on any Interdictor build I put together.

Arquitens will love it for sure, but outside of that, I've only ever seen it useful on ISD-Is, and even then it's debatable if the opponent isn't running TRC for days. Anyone with H9, Sensor Teams, or Intel Officer is going to nullify him fairy snappy.

I've used him with TRC on a Tagge ISD1. Pretty substantial boost to damage if you can manage a double arc on turns 2 and/or 4.

Otherwise... Kind of mediocre. Cool idea, but not a lot of applications for him.

If you're running a pair of Interdictors, maybe, but Wulff is glued to the Officer spot on any Interdictor build I put together.

Arquitens will love it for sure, but outside of that, I've only ever seen it useful on ISD-Is, and even then it's debatable if the opponent isn't running TRC for days. Anyone with H9, Sensor Teams, or Intel Officer is going to nullify him fairy snappy.

If H9s is hitting the evade, then the brace is open for business.

I like Needa, but that officer slot is pretty highly contested.

If you're running a pair of Interdictors, maybe, but Wulff is glued to the Officer spot on any Interdictor build I put together.

Arquitens will love it for sure, but outside of that, I've only ever seen it useful on ISD-Is, and even then it's debatable if the opponent isn't running TRC for days. Anyone with H9, Sensor Teams, or Intel Officer is going to nullify him fairy snappy.

I like him on an Interdictor with Tarkin (who generally just starts screaming ENGINEERING come serious fistfight time), as Wulff is much less necessary there. Otherwise I agree that on an Interdictor, Wulff takes priority.

He is money on a dictor

If H9s is hitting the evade, then the brace is open for business.

I like Needa, but that officer slot is pretty highly contested.

Unless he rolls an accuracy to boot. Usually any opponent I face carrying H9s, are taking some combo of Sensor Team or Intel Officer too.

I like him on an Interdictor with Tarkin (who generally just starts screaming ENGINEERING come serious fistfight time), as Wulff is much less necessary there. Otherwise I agree that on an Interdictor, Wulff takes priority.

Yeah that's fair. If Tarkin is about, or even a Gozer with Comms Net to pass on a token, then Needa sits really nicely in that slot. As long I get to keep an Engineering token on that 'dictor every turn, I'm happy. Give me an evade on top of that, and I'm a happy bunny.

Agreed, best application seems to be force choke fodder for when your Vader commanded fleet isn't doing so well

Is this a worthwhile upgrade?

2 pts to get an evade, at the price of another defensive token.

I'm a bit divided.

First of all you need that officer slot free. That's not always the case. But lets say you do.

He can be useful on the ISD (mostly ISD-Is in my case, to shore up they crap defensive suite). The evade can save you quite a few dmg from TRC madness, for example. And you simply forego swapping out the contain if you meet too many angry bombers.

VSDs don't have any tokens to spare really, but I guess you could swap out a redirect. Not ideal, but not entirely wasted.

Interdictors could sure use him. Two contains is often one too many.

So, anyone use this guy?

When I went through my Devastator phase, I used Needa on the ISD-II. I would try and burn the evade ASAP with TRC too so I could start using Overload pulse at long range with the devastator (and of course I had Screed). ISD-I with Avenger in the front.

I think I won the game, but it was such a long time ago. I've never played the list since, but maybe because I thought it was too cute to be competitive.

Needa is **** near mandatory for VSD/ISD.

And remember you can choose not to swap a token in a given matchup...which I have done once. But if like most people you are facing TRC90 almost every game, certainlly competitive ones, cancelling even 3 doubles is huge. Against MSU you can easily put the numbers of doubles canceled in a game to 4-5+ if you burn that token.

From a wealth of personal experience Needa on a VSD is amazing despite the 3 token limit. This is due to that way TRC90 math works out. We expect about 3 damage per roll with TRC90, this ship being the most common TRC fiend.

For simplicity sake let's look at TRC90 Long Range without the CF command.

CR90 Action Double Arc with TRC:

1) Side Arc, TRC for 2

2) Front arc for 3-4 damage or 2 dmg TRC/ACC.

VSD Responds with:

1) Evade the Side Arc totally

2) Brace the Front to Two, if ACC targets brace choice to discard Evade for 0 damage overall.

But it's so much more than this. You've got combos. Evade, brace, evade/brace, discard token depending on acc/dmg/remaining hull etc

More things to consider:

1) A VSD can only brace once vs double arc TRC if you want to keep your brace token (and you do). By adding an Evade it essentially gives you another Brace against 3 damage rolls. Against a single dice it is even better than brace! So you have options vs double arcs and up to two single arc ships that let you keep all your tokens. The CR90/Arquitens are your/going to be TRC carrying with 1 dice battery at long range ships. They require a response.

2) Futher more it builds in redudency against an accuraey because you can cancel damage in two ways. Every VSD pilot knows the pain of Double, Double, ACC at long. Needa is an out to this crippling situation. Seriously a 51 point TRC90 shoots a VSD for 4 damage and you redirect only? You are loosing right now.

3) This doesn't loose relevance at Medium Range because the Blues increase the chance of acc and you still have outs against a double via the Reroll.

Yes it makes your VSD defensively weaker to bombers but you cancel damage elsewhere. And this damage is gone not moved. Against rebels I always take an Evade. Against x2 VSD or VSD bomber lists I might consider not replacing in some specific matchups and Needa can just chill and observe.

TRC = **** near auto include for VSD/ISD. I would put it on the Interdictor but Wulf/Aresko allows more Eng to reup shield anyway.

-edit- If you aren't running Needa now just wait for Arquitens and Sato. You all will be.

Needa is **** near mandatory for VSD/ISD.

And remember you can choose not to swap a token in a given matchup...which I have done once. But if like most people you are facing TRC90 almost every game, certainlly competitive ones, cancelling even 3 doubles is huge. Against MSU you can easily put the numbers of doubles canceled in a game to 4-5+ if you burn that token.

From a wealth of personal experience Needa on a VSD is amazing despite the 3 token limit. This is due to that way TRC90 math works out. We expect about 3 damage per roll with TRC90, this ship being the most common TRC fiend.

For simplicity sake let's look at TRC90 Long Range without the CF command.

CR90 Action Double Arc with TRC:

1) Side Arc, TRC for 2

2) Front arc for 3-4 damage or 2 dmg TRC/ACC.

VSD Responds with:

1) Evade the Side Arc totally

2) Brace the Front to Two, if ACC targets brace choice to discard Evade for 0 damage overall.

But it's so much more than this. You've got combos. Evade, brace, evade/brace, discard token depending on acc/dmg/remaining hull etc

More things to consider:

1) A VSD can only brace once vs double arc TRC if you want to keep your brace token (and you do). By adding an Evade it essentially gives you another Brace against 3 damage rolls. Against a single dice it is even better than brace! So you have options vs double arcs and up to two single arc ships that let you keep all your tokens. The CR90/Arquitens are your/going to be TRC carrying with 1 dice battery at long range ships. They require a response.

2) Futher more it builds in redudency against an accuraey because you can cancel damage in two ways. Every VSD pilot knows the pain of Double, Double, ACC at long. Needa is an out to this crippling situation. Seriously a 51 point TRC90 shoots a VSD for 4 damage and you redirect only? You are loosing right now.

3) This doesn't loose relevance at Medium Range because the Blues increase the chance of acc and you still have outs against a double via the Reroll.

Yes it makes your VSD defensively weaker to bombers but you cancel damage elsewhere. And this damage is gone not moved. Against rebels I always take an Evade. Against x2 VSD or VSD bomber lists I might consider not replacing in some specific matchups and Needa can just chill and observe.

TRC = **** near auto include for VSD/ISD. I would put it on the Interdictor but Wulf/Aresko allows more Eng to reup shield anyway.

-edit- If you aren't running Needa now just wait for Arquitens and Sato. You all will be.

Well that was quite well thought out and articulated.

Regardless on whether or not you agree with Trizzo2 he probably just won the thread.

I find SFO better on a Vic than Needa. Being slow moving and slow reacting really sucks, so SFO makes up for that. Evade is cool n all, but I'll just tank the damage with Motti and throw my bombers at the TRC90.

And Trizzo seems to be directing his thoughts at a TRC90 list where you will be taking 4 damage a turn which evade is great for. But if you aren't facing a TRC list, evade is meh because Vics want to get to medium/close range, which I guess you can not use Needa, but you just wasted your valuable SFO slot.

Can't really speak for ISDs since I don't play them too much. But the Needa TRC combo isn't as great as I wanted it to be. Adding 2 damage on top of the 8 dice being thrown isn't that much better.