I used to fly Prince Xizor to pretty good effect (A- to B+ tier) back in wave 7-8 meta, loaded with lots of upgrades and escorted by meaty ships to pawn off hits to. But more recently, damage output has become too high for Xizor to reliably pawn off enough hits on his buddies and I have had to drop the list.

What part of the Viper Dial do you like better? Are Three S-loops better than 2 T-rolls and a K-turn? Or is having 1-straight and banks better than a 3-turn? Protectorate's 5-straight is also great with boost barrel roll to make a suprisingly effective long-range block.

Point is, there is nothing that the Viper can do that the Protectorate can't do for cheaper.

It's the 1 speed maneuvers. I'll trade 3 speed turns for the full set of 1 speeds any day of the week.

I have been running Guri with wingman and slicer tools with a ptl Fen and a stay on target Kad. Dial I the 'wrong' move for Kad, stay on target to change it to a red get two focus, Guri removes the stress. Doesn't matter if Kad bumps, red move nets the focus. She can even switch friends and help out Fen if he needs it. PS 5 works great for slicer tools against aces. Killed Jake that way. Fun list and it's different which is always fun.

Guri is probably where the money is at. Biggest problem with Guri is that Fenn is pretty much always a better choice. But she is fun no doubt.

Guri is a staple in the squads I like to play. I have been trying to use Fenn and don't get as much out of him as I do Guri. In almost every game I play with Fenn he ends up taking a lot of damage early in the game and then I spend the rest of the match running away with him.

It may just be a play style thing though. I tend to prefer Guri's lower PS and tighter dial. I would like to see the Starvipers get some love but my inner hipster is afraid that they'll become the next Defender if they get a decent fix.

It would be great to see Autothrusters offered on, say, the expansion that improves the T-65. The one with the title that adds boost. Are ya with me, people?

It would be great to see Autothrusters offered on, say, the expansion that improves the T-65. The one with the title that adds boost. Are ya with me, people?

Some sort of S-Foils card? It would help X-Wings, B-Wings, and Star Vipers and it could be a dual upgrade card to help where both need it.

Also can I say that if we see an Aces Pack with the Starviper, rather than an alternate paint scheme could we get a configuration change where the wings are closed?

That's the trick, how do they add something to the ship without filling up a spot that already makes the ship useful?

Title? Already got one and without the title the Starviper is just an iPad.

Mod? Autothrusters

Illicit? One of the only things that makes the ship more flexible than the Protectorate

System? Ditto

That's the big problem. There are some things that have come out since which help a lot - Attani Mindlink helps Guri a lot, and Cloaking Device turns the ship into a very unpredictable dogfighter.

I think Scavenger Claw might be good too. Fire Control System, Guri's own ability and Advanced Proton Torpedoes is a painful combination, and Scavenger Claw gives you a second shot, on a platform that might be tough enough to actually fire both. That's definitely worth a look.

Yeah, I am looking forward to an APT Guri with Scavenger crane, Lonewolf together with either Manaroo, Title, K4, unhinged or maybe something with PS9+ and hotshot pilot.

Also can I say that if we see an Aces Pack with the Starviper, rather than an alternate paint scheme could we get a configuration change where the wings are closed?

Thanks to a friend that is much better at that sort of thing than I am, my Starvipers have wings that open and close.

That's the trick, how do they add something to the ship without filling up a spot that already makes the ship useful?

Title? Already got one and without the title the Starviper is just an iPad.

Mod? Autothrusters

Illicit? One of the only things that makes the ship more flexible than the Protectorate

System? Ditto

-2 points

When you reveal a 3 S-Loops maneuver, you can consider it as a 3 bank reverse maneuver.

Don't know why, but I will like to see a reverse Viper. It fill nicely, maybe is the chassis..

I used to fly Xizor w/ 5 Binayre Pirates to very good effect. I came in 2nd at a local tournament that had the guy who won the Atlanta Regionals in it with the list. I took it to a Regionals and was set to make it to the Top 16, but my dice went horribly horribly bad. I mean, I couldn't even take a Decimator down to half hits with firing every round with all my ships. My dice were....historically bad. The list beat Bro Bots easily (beat two identical lists back to back) and Fat Turrets pretty well. It was a bit of a challenge with Imp Aces, but I didn't face much then. The secret ingredient was Flechette Torpedo at the right moment.

There was someone in the UK that I got advice from. He did extremely well with about the same list.

TLT's really hurt Xizor as he couldn't shunt off the damage. That's what really put him under.

I haven't tried in today's meta, but it might be alright. I think Guri is probably better and include Attani Mindlink.

Part of the problem that people have with this ship is that they want to put PTL on it and treat it as an Arc Dodger. It's not that. You never want PTL. You want to use FCS or Sensor Jammer instead. You just fly smartly in the first place, which is something people have a hard time doing without PTL.

Part of the problem that people have with this ship is that they want to put PTL on it and treat it as an Arc Dodger. It's not that. You never want PTL. You want to use FCS or Sensor Jammer instead. You just fly smartly in the first place, which is something people have a hard time doing without PTL.

The Starviper is not an Interceptor with less green on its dial. It's a B-Wing with less red.

The Squad I enjoy flying with Guri looks like this:

Guri (34)

-Lone Wolf

-Autothrusters

Drea Renthal (29)

-Proton Torpedo

-Guidance Chips

-Autoblaster Turret

-Unhinged Astromech

Black Sun Ace (25)

-Glitterstim

-Trick Shot

Binayre Pilot (12)

The three other ships joust together, and hopefully put a major dent in something between the Z's block and focused fire from a proton torpedo and a target lock/stim modded shot. Guri comes in at the flank, using smart range control to either have thrusters or her ability as needed, with lone wolf shoring up the lack of an evade token. It's not the most competitive thing in the world, but it works out nicely.

Part of the problem that people have with this ship is that they want to put PTL on it and treat it as an Arc Dodger. It's not that. You never want PTL. You want to use FCS or Sensor Jammer instead. You just fly smartly in the first place, which is something people have a hard time doing without PTL.

The Starviper is not an Interceptor with less green on its dial. It's a B-Wing with less red.

While I approve of the analogy, it actually is neither. It's a T-70 x-wing with a dash more agility (in the dial and the dice and actions) and little bit less endurance.

Part of the problem that people have with this ship is that they want to put PTL on it and treat it as an Arc Dodger. It's not that. You never want PTL. You want to use FCS or Sensor Jammer instead. You just fly smartly in the first place, which is something people have a hard time doing without PTL.

The Starviper is not an Interceptor with less green on its dial. It's a B-Wing with less red.

While I approve of the analogy, it actually is neither. It's a T-70 x-wing with a dash more agility (in the dial and the dice and actions) and little bit less endurance.

I find that trading the speed 3 turns of the T-70 for the speed 1 turns on the Starviper result in me playing those ships differently. I maneuver the Starviper much more like a B-Wing but can make more frequent use of the one speed turn.

Also, I tend to use the barrel-roll on the Starviper more frequently than the boost which makes it feel more like a B-Wing than a T-70 to me. The boost is nice to have and it sees some use but at Guri's lowish PS and the way she's always finding herself in the middle (or as the cause) of the traffic jam I end up getting more value from the barrel-roll.

Star Vipers are very, very underrated. They are capable ships that just get a bad rap in most people's minds because they read that a friend of a friend of Paul Heaver said they were garbage, or something, and never give the ship a chance.


Already this tournament season three Top 16 lists have featured Star Vipers, so they are clearly capable ships.

Star Vipers are very, very underrated.

[snip]

Already this tournament season three Top 16 lists have featured Star Vipers, so they are clearly capable ships.

While I agree that they are underrated, I think callen the Star Vipers themselves capable ships is going one step too far. The Virago is a decent ship and Guri is a great pilot. But the generics lack an EPT and can't take titles either, which limits the usefulness of Star Vipers usually to just one ship. The Virago. And mostly just one pilot. Guri.

Or let me rephrase it: The ship is great, the pilots are nearly all bad.

PS. My T70 tend to come with vector thrusters these days. ;-)

The generics are Major Rhymer levels of over-costed and don't get a single shenanigan. Guri and especially Xizor have to work really hard to earn their points back but they have a shenanigan or two.

Star Vipers are very, very underrated. They are capable ships that just get a bad rap in most people's minds because they read that a friend of a friend of Paul Heaver said they were garbage, or something, and never give the ship a chance.

Already this tournament season three Top 16 lists have featured Star Vipers, so they are clearly capable ships.

Sorry, I don't keep up to speed with these things. Do we know what builds have made top 16? I really like the ship but other than mindlink Guri find it difficult to justify

Star Vipers are very, very underrated.

[snip]

Already this tournament season three Top 16 lists have featured Star Vipers, so they are clearly capable ships.

While I agree that they are underrated, I think callen the Star Vipers themselves capable ships is going one step too far. The Virago is a decent ship and Guri is a great pilot. But the generics lack an EPT and can't take titles either, which limits the usefulness of Star Vipers usually to just one ship. The Virago. And mostly just one pilot. Guri.

Or let me rephrase it: The ship is great, the pilots are nearly all bad.

PS. My T70 tend to come with vector thrusters these days. ;-)

That's a pretty narrow definition of capable.

Is the TIE Intercetpor a capable ship if we only ever see one pilot (Fel)? If "capable ship" has to mean that we routinely see Top performances by more than one pilot in that ship, then really the only ships in the game that would be capable would probably by the TIE Defender (Ryad, Vess, sometimes Marrek or Brath for a PS War) or the Jumpmaster (Scout, Manaroo, and Dengar) or perhaps the Protectorate (in Fenn + Teroch lists) or YV-666 (Bossk or Slaver) and naturally the Aggressor (IG88b with IG88c). Because otherwise, these days, most ships are just a single viable common pilot:

T65: Biggs

T70: Poe

Y-Wing: Gold Squadron (with stresshog loadout)

E-Wing: Corran

YT-2400: Dash

Falcon: Rey

TAP: Inquisitor

Interceptor: Fel

Lamdba: Omicron Group

TIE/fo: Omega Leader

TIE: Wampa

HWK: Palob

Khiraxz: Talonbane

etc.

So, either pretty much most ships in this game aren't really "capable," or else we might have to agree that the Starviper is capable even if it's only been Guri in the Virago placing in the 2016-2017 Regionals thus far this season.

Or in other words generics across the board that can't do something special are basically dead.

Or in other words generics across the board that can't do something special are basically dead.

Basically, but not just generics either. Ships tend to have just one playable unique pilot. Look at how many TIE, Interceptor, T65, and T70 unique pilots exist. Those four ships alone have over thirty unique pilots, yet only about 4 of those unique pilots see any level of successful competitive play (Wampa, Fel, Biggs, and Poe).

Lamdba: Omicron Group

TIE/fo: Omega Leader

TIE: Wampa

Lambda makes use of Yorr in successful lists, and I personally have uses for Jendon.

TIE/fo sees more than OL (I assume these people just don't want to try and explain OL, but I do see plenty of other FOs)

TIE: ... Howlrunner? BlackCrack swarms? Academys are also still prevalent blockers... Wampa barely sees play at all, comparatively.

i wouldnt even call the ships good.

Virago is the kind of title i find to be bs. The ship was obviously designed with the title in mind, as w/o the title its a laughable piece of junk. I'd rather fly scyks over a non-virago viper. With the title it becomes a pretty good ship, its just a couple points too expensive. As others have said, Guri is good but thats it. Without the title is obscenely overpriced for what it does: that is a semi-squishy 3die ship.

Viper really should have had an innate Sensor, with the title adding an illicit. That would have opened up a lot more use with the generics, since the illicit is almost always used for cloaking anyway.

im hoping if they release a fix for the viper its exactly that: a nonunique title that adds a sensor for free, if not -1pt. Sensor is an insanely strong slot and is often the lynchpin for a build being "meh" and "HOLY CRAP"

Also, theres other tie/fos than OL and tie/lns than wampa. In fact i havnt seen wampa in awhile. OL is used the most because he happens to not only have the best ability but its the most universal one: the rest require you to build around or are too expensive...OL can just be slapped in.

Ok, I'm not a Viper pilot. I have flown it once, and I liked it, but I'm a classic Rebel fighter person. I am however tempted to fly the big heavy sensor jammer,autothruster Guri. Seems like it would be good vs TLTs. Am I wrong on this assessment?

Wingmates are tricky at that point range though...

Ok, I'm not a Viper pilot. I have flown it once, and I liked it, but I'm a classic Rebel fighter person. I am however tempted to fly the big heavy sensor jammer,autothruster Guri. Seems like it would be good vs TLTs. Am I wrong on this assessment?

Wingmates are tricky at that point range though...

Yes, Guri is happy with getting attack several times per turn. For Squad mates: Palob as great synergies with Guri and that TLT together with a vector thruster or cloaking device opens a lot of options. Manaroo naturally plays nice along with Guri too. Old Teroch fits into a mindlink guri list instead of Palob too. I have not tested the new focus and evade negating machine together with Guri, I would assume that the old Manolarian has a much harder time to provide the same kind of support that Palob is providing. Especially as stress is more common in the current meta and inspiring recruit looks so good to deal with that problem and fits perfectly onto Palob.