I'm curious, has anyone gotten use out of this ship?

I almost never see it played, and when it is, I've never seen that player do well. The unfortunate thing is that FF, in their infinite wisdom, has placed a very useful card in that expansion (autothrusters). I know a lot of people have more than one of those ships, mostly for autothrusters. FF usually puts non-unique cards in other expansions that come out later, but for some reason we still haven't seen autothrusters in any other ship.

Is there a reason that FF wants to sell a ship that no one wants to use?

Or am I way off base and the Star Viper is the best ship ever?

Let us know if you did well with it and what your list was.

I'm still debating getting a second or just buying the cards from someone.

As part of the unpopular minority, I like the PS1 with thrusters. Blocking with a 3 s-loop, then again with a 1 bank is hilarious. That being said the only competitive viable pilot is Guri, and only maybe depending on the rest of your build.

Mindlink Guri is great in a mindlink list.

I play Xizor a bit, and I used to run Guri, Xizor, bumpmaster quite regularly.

If you want to play them, do so - they're certainly not bad ships, they've just been left behind the power curve now. Xizor is one of the toughest aces in the game - 4/1 health, autothrusters, and the ability to shed hits to his wingmates means he is one tough sucker to dislodge.

Guri, Palob, Manaroo as Mindlink List is so much fun, strong list too.

I'm curious, has anyone gotten use out of this ship?

I almost never see it played, and when it is, I've never seen that player do well. The unfortunate thing is that FF, in their infinite wisdom, has placed a very useful card in that expansion (autothrusters). I know a lot of people have more than one of those ships, mostly for autothrusters. FF usually puts non-unique cards in other expansions that come out later, but for some reason we still haven't seen autothrusters in any other ship.

Is there a reason that FF wants to sell a ship that no one wants to use?

Or am I way off base and the Star Viper is the best ship ever?

Let us know if you did well with it and what your list was.

I'm still debating getting a second or just buying the cards from someone.

Guri can form a solid part of a fairly competitive Attanni Mindlink list. She is a blast to play with Advanced Sensors and Cloaking Device as well, she can go pretty much anywhere.

Two Black Sun Enforcers with Autothrusters might fit in nicely alongside a Shadowcaster, too.

Guri Mindlink that the only one that can even remotely be considered competitive.

Basically its overcosted by good 3 points (designers admitted that themselves), but we could live with that but on top we have:

-Weak pilots (guri ability is more than ok but then she is PS5.... Sheetzor should not be even mentioned. If Guri would be PS7 and our fallus thinking faleen ps 5 that would be different story...).

-No enough defense for its points - Guri with defensive load is 40+ points (thats Poe with regen and ps8/9....) and she still can't stick to the board like she should for those points.

-Not enought green on dial for PtL.

Starviper needs for ex -2pts title that would even strip hull from it, trading it for evade action after roll/boost - and bam! We got ourselves excellent agile fighter.

The reason why Guri Mindlink is competitive is:

1. Sensor Jammer compensates for the lack of evade just fine, especially in combination with the focus stealing abilities in the scum faction you get nearly guaranteed damage avoidance each turn.
2. The action economy for ship which have trouble with PTL become fantastic with mindlink.
3. PS 5 with Mindlink and Manaroo and Guris ability is actually great, block one, shoot another one with full mods, have double focus on Palob for his TLT shots still. Have still defense another defensive focus token on Guri. Guri does really care little about her low PS.

Besides, I don't think that the topic was starviper, x-wing, m3a, hwk-290, Y-Wing, E-Wing. TIE/AD, etc … fixes. ;-)

Still that suggested title would be terrible on Guri and generic vipers would still be useless as they don't have the EPT to take mindlink. Not helping the prince either, because losing your illicit and system-slot AND a hull slot for a 2 point reduction is not worth it even with the situational free evade action.

It's not awful, but it's not great either.

The Black Sun Enforcer (25pts) is essentially a Zealous Recruit (20pts) with a shield upgrade (4pts) - given that the shield upgrade is deliberately a bit overcosted relative to a ship's 'native' shields, that gives you an idea that the ship is 2-3 points overpriced.

The problem is that whilst it has a lot of things going for it, those things don't really work together terribly well. 3 agility is nice, but 3 agility doesn't mean much without focus tokens.....and having said focus tokens 'spare' usually means improved action economy....and you don't have the dial to support Push The Limit, the usual way to do this.

In addition, the Virago title gives a hell of a lot of capability - but it's unique, and the PS restriction prevents the generics from taking it.

Guri isn't bad at all. As noted, Attani Mindlink is a nice scum thing, and pairs really, really well with her ability, and you have access to a cloak relative to the protectorate, and autothrusters relative to the khiraxz, and advanced sensors/sensor jammer/fire control relative to both.

I haven't played one for ages but have seen them coming back (to a minor degree) with mindlink so lets hope that a few other cards will come out to help them in the meta

I used to fly the Viper a lot, mainly in two formations:

Guri
Palob
2 x Black Sun Soldiers.

or

Xizor
5 x Binayre Pirates

They were "decent" two waves ago, now however there are far better/cheaper/useful options for your points. I like the ship, dial, stats etc but even I can't put it in a list and think to myself, yes, this is going to perform consistently AND successfully for 6 - 9 games straight.

For the Viper to be a contender against the rest of the great options open to scum it needs:

2 point reduction across all pilots.

illicit and system slot to be standard

Title to be "when you acquire a target lock, you may also receive an evade token"

That's a tall order to make the ship see competitive play. The Viper is, unfortunately, where the TIE Advanced was pre- Raider

(Optional ideas)

Xizor ability to read: "After defending, if you did not receive any damage, choose 1 friendly ship within range 1 of you and assign that ship a focus token."

Works on the principle that his lackeys double their efforts when their Prince is attacked

Guri ability to read: "When a friendly ship with a higher pilot skill then you receives a focus, evade or target lock token, you may also receive the same token if you do not already have one."

She is an assassin droid after all and one that was assigned to escort duty.

Pairing both together would then be really good and thematic.

My idea which I really liked until the stupid little tugboat ruined it with its speed two sloops was a small-base only illicit that turned all speed 2 maneuvers green and added evade to the action bar.

The protectorate has made the generic Starviper pilots completely irrelevant. Same statline (if shield upgraded), same action bar, better dial on the protectorate and the Starviper is more expensive!

I would be surprised and disappointed if FFG did not have something planned for the poor viper if they were willing to so entirely eclipse them with a new release.

I love the look of the ship. Would buy a second but until I know what format of box the fix will be in I'm unwilling to buy.

Khiraxz/Starviper Veterans or Aces box would be of interest to me.

As mentioned on another thread... A £70 epic ship with a fix for the viper would not please me.

Sure Epic is great, but I'd like that scale of purchase to be completely separate.

I would be surprised and disappointed if FFG did not have something planned for the poor viper if they were willing to so entirely eclipse them with a new release.

In an interview at worlds they mentioned x wing, star viper and kihraxz would see some love in the future

The protectorate has made the generic Starviper pilots completely irrelevant. Same statline (if shield upgraded), same action bar, better dial on the protectorate and the Starviper is more expensive!I

As the generics are not going to use PTL (no ept after all) I would actually rate the vipers dial higher. The statline is only the same if you ignore that the viper has autothrusters with that stateline while the protectorate has either ACs or that one crit protections. Lastly the protectorate title makes them significant better at jousting in your face.

There really are significant differences between the two ships. As the vipers generics all lack an EPT slot, action efficiency and are overpriced on top, the Fangs are still usually or even always prefered, especially the aces as they are quite nice mindlink fighters themselves. But the reasons the viper generics are irrelevant are imo not the one you listed in the above quote.

I would be surprised and disappointed if FFG did not have something planned for the poor viper if they were willing to so entirely eclipse them with a new release.

In an interview at worlds they mentioned x wing, star viper and kihraxz would see some love in the future

That was purely in a "competitive" context and lets be honest, the Starviper is a small base ship in a primarily large base faction with the Protectorate outclassing it in all respects. To see any play, it needs to offer some thing so great that it would make you actually consider it over Fenn Rau and that is not easy, especially since he starts off at 28 points,

Additionally, the X wing is difficult due to Biggs and the Khiraxz is competing with the Viper, Protectorate and the M3A which is being fixed with titles (hence the recent change to the current title).

What part of the Viper Dial do you like better? Are Three S-loops better than 2 T-rolls and a K-turn? Or is having 1-straight and banks better than a 3-turn? Protectorate's 5-straight is also great with boost barrel roll to make a suprisingly effective long-range block.

Point is, there is nothing that the Viper can do that the Protectorate can't do for cheaper.

There is a local player in Atlanta that has gotten some extreme value out of them, be it a loaded guri or a single PS 1 blocker.

It's got an amazing dial, every speed 1-2 move and barrel roll makes it one of the best blockers possible. I enjoy the ps 1, naked. It's not uncommon for me to run the 3 I own together.

Lone Wolf/Adv Sensor/Slicer Guri is still my favourite ship to fly in the game.

Though I'm reeeeaaaallly crossing my fingers that whatever fix is coming compliments that and I get to play on easy mode later.

I love them, but have played them less and less. It hasn't be performing up to its cost for me and it lacks options on the lower PS pilots. Guri predator autothruster and systems upgrade of choice.

FFG has always been slow to reprint good upgrades in other ships, I haven't seen to many ships released that can take autothrusters that it would be included with.

That's the trick, how do they add something to the ship without filling up a spot that already makes the ship useful?

Title? Already got one and without the title the Starviper is just an iPad.

Mod? Autothrusters

Illicit? One of the only things that makes the ship more flexible than the Protectorate

System? Ditto

The coolest idea I saw floating around was something like this:

Reverse thrusters (-3 points to cost, remove your torpedo slot)

At the start of the combat phase, you may perform a free boost action using your backwards facing pegs.

This would let Guri and Xizor have a chance to reposition against higher PS aces, and it would let the generic pilots block enemy ships and then still boost backwards for a range 1 shot. It would also make the Viper feel like a unique ship to fly.

That's the trick, how do they add something to the ship without filling up a spot that already makes the ship useful?

Title? Already got one and without the title the Starviper is just an iPad.

Mod? Autothrusters

Illicit? One of the only things that makes the ship more flexible than the Protectorate

System? Ditto

That's the big problem. There are some things that have come out since which help a lot - Attani Mindlink helps Guri a lot, and Cloaking Device turns the ship into a very unpredictable dogfighter.

I think Scavenger Claw might be good too. Fire Control System, Guri's own ability and Advanced Proton Torpedoes is a painful combination, and Scavenger Claw gives you a second shot, on a platform that might be tough enough to actually fire both. That's definitely worth a look.

If only the Black Sun Vigo had an EPT. A squad of 2 of them + Guri all with Mindlink sounds pretty good.

Guri is probably where the money is at. Biggest problem with Guri is that Fenn is pretty much always a better choice. But she is fun no doubt.

The Prince and the new Power Generation (don't get the name, just put 38-40 Points of xizor wirth 5 zeds) should be tried. Plays like nothing else really. Don't play it vs TLT...