Announcing: Custom Card League Season 2

By Babaganoosh, in X-Wing

6 hours ago, Mangipan said:

There are two months until Scum submissions are due, which is time for things to be turned on their heads completely. But it is also time for me to explore an idea fully before discarding it out of hand because two guys didn't like it.

There's a reason why I'm spitballing ideas around here rather than in it's own thread - this is very early and very rough. But the way the game ends is a massive part of the game and changing it alters gameplay by literally effecting the way that you play the game, because you're trying to achieve a different outcome than you would be otherwise.

For the Team Covenant Open vassal tournament, they rebalanced Emperor Palpatine. His points cost is changed to negative eight points, but if his ship is destroyed or his card discarded you immediately lose. I see things like that and it's so compelling from a design standpoint and such a flavour home run. If Palpatine is dead it doesn't matter what else happens, the Empire has already lost. There's nothing else that quite captures that flavour right now, but if you told me I had to give you a Supreme Leader Snoke tomorrow you can bet that's the first direction I'd be looking in.

By changing the way the game ends you alter the scenario. Every tournament game is a 100 point dogfight to the death, but what if it wasn't. What if you had a card that let you achieve victory in another way? I don't know what that way is yet but you can be **** sure I'm going to keep trying to figure it out.

In any scenario that you play you will naturally fly and play differently to a standard dogfight, because your priorities are warped by the objectives. It's exactly the same here - a card that effects the outcome of the game effects the game by altering your priorities.

Um. No?

We try things, and sometimes they even work. But by not exploring new design space, and believe me the end of the game is a huge space that is ripe for exploration, we will always miss things.

Like don't get me wrong, I appreciate being told that things don't work, but I'm coming in here to bounce ideas around, get some feedback and do some brainstorming. What has happened instead is "No never think about this stop trying."

Prior to Wave 8, I had a design for Discord Missiles (As seen in Revenge of the Sith, deploying Buzz Droids and ruining Obi-Wan's day) which said "If this attack hits, the defender must choose and discard an equipped upgrade card." The response it received was knee-jerk negativity. I was told that upgrade cards are sacred, that they should never be touched, that I was making terrible and un-fun cards and that I should throw away my design and not look at it again. Then along comes Boba Fett and it turns out that discarding upgrade cards, in a much cheaper and more precise manner, isn't actually a big deal.

So in short, I'll keep messing around in any new design space I can find because the entire point of this exercise is to introduce new and interesting ships that aren't simply a retread of what we've seen before, and if we're not innovating we're stagnating.

You're not changing gameplay.

You're changing the way the game is played. Big difference. Enormous difference. Changing gameplay is an adjustment of mechanics already built into the game. Changing the way the game is played is changing strategies of how the game needs to be approached.

One is fun for both players(potentially), the other is fun for only half of the players. A card that lets you achieve victory different from everyone else is BROKEN. It's the most unfun thing i can imagine. I'm honestly having trouble putting into words just how stupid of an idea that is. I can honestly say that if FFG released a card like that, one that gives the other player a different, easier way to win than their opponent, i'm done. Standard X-Wing is done for me if that ever happens. I'll retreat into my corner and keep developing X-Wing TCS and play only that. I'm stating this now and publicly and i mean it. Hold me to it.

Now changing the way the game is played isn't necessarily bad; But doing so like you did is. Anyone who equips that card(and given that Scum is the best faction in the game right now doesnt really help) makes ending the game easier for themselves and harder for their opponent in nearly every variation you've made. Not the the game itself, not the gameplay, it makes ending the game, and what happens after the game easier for the person using it.

I cannot allow a card like that to even be considered.

The difference being that Discord Missiles actually had an impact on the game itself. It introduced a new gameplay mechanic.

Also a big difference is that Boba Fett can only be used once per list, ordnance can be equipped to any ship with the right slot, then you've got extra munitions, and with LRS, Deadeye, and Chips existing, means you can spam them until your opponent simply hasnt got any upgrade cards left. Boba is a tactical "use one, use wisely". I'd have to say that even today i'd still oppose Discord Missiles.

Somehow though Last Chance is still worse.

Edited by Razgriz25thinf
7 hours ago, Odanan said:

After my diet N-1 expansion received much better votes than my Phoenix Squadron expansion, I came to the conclusion that, if you want your cards in the league, you better keep them conservative and don't inovate much. People are afraid (sometimes righfully) of the possible interations.

Honestly I think the bigger issue is no one thinks the awing needs a fix, and people talk about the N1 being in the game all the time.

43 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Honestly I think the bigger issue is no one thinks the awing needs a fix, and people talk about the N1 being in the game all the time.

I would agree with this. Innovative stuff exists and can succeed, but even that has to be tempered by some pragmatism. People are going to vote for fixes for ships they think need to be fixed. The X-Wing has been chief on that list for literal years. *shrugs*

2 hours ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

I would agree with this. Innovative stuff exists and can succeed, but even that has to be tempered by some pragmatism. People are going to vote for fixes for ships they think need to be fixed. The X-Wing has been chief on that list for literal years. *shrugs*

Which is why I stuck to new ships (that and I had no fix ideas).

5 hours ago, sf1raptor said:

Which is why I stuck to new ships (that and I had no fix ideas).

I've just limited my fix pack to 1 or 2 scum ships everyone says need it :P

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 5:02 PM, VanderLegion said:

You still haven't told us WHY we need a title that affects the outcome of the game. Especially a 0 point title that has no other effect during the game itself. It's still really nothing to do with playing x-wing, it's betting on the game going to time and your opponent not havnig killed that ship yet.

Yes it does. It paints a bullseye on one particular ship you field that says "catch me if you can." There is a risk/reward ratio now in keeping that one ship alive. . .now, even the opponent has to decide whether resources should be spent in assuring the destruction of that vessel which will change the momentum of the game.

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 5:10 PM, Razgriz25thinf said:

You know what i love about X-Wing? Every card released that isn't a Huge Ship Only card, is equally as usable in casual play as it is in tournament. Every single one. Every single card has an effect on the mechanics of gameplay itself.

This does not. This adds no useful mechanics, makes no useful adjustment or modifier to the GAME. This is a card that FFG would never release.

This is a 0 point card that makes entire TOURNAMENTS easier for the player that equips it.

Not the actual game played at those tournaments, though. Just the tournments themselves. This card has no effect on the game in casual play. Neither did any of it's earlier variants.

It should not exist.

Stop.

Odd. I would think the CCL is the place to try stuff like this out.

Edited by Darth Meanie
5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Yes it does. It paints a bullseye on one particular ship you field that says "catch me if you can." There is a risk/reward ratio now in keeping that one ship alive. . .now, even the opponent has to decide whether resources should be spent in assuring the destruction of that vessel which will change the momentum of the game.

Odd. I would think the CCL is the place to try stuff like this out.

Yeah well, it also happens to be a tournament with prizes on the line. If it isn't balanced, it shouldn't exist in the CCL either.

16 hours ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

Yeah well, it also happens to be a tournament with prizes on the line. If it isn't balanced, it shouldn't exist in the CCL either.

Well yeah, it shouldn be balanced. Guess I misunderstood what CCL was about. . .I thought it was more of a casual place to explore cards ideas. Sad to see yet another aspect of X-Wing driven by prize-winning.

25 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well yeah, it shouldn be balanced. Guess I misunderstood what CCL was about. . .I thought it was more of a casual place to explore cards ideas. Sad to see yet another aspect of X-Wing driven by prize-winning.

It isn't that. Everything FFG puts out with X-wing is balanced, or at least not impossible to contend with until it's balanced. Same applies here.

Balance is important here too, if for no other reason than unbalanced games are not very fun ususally

1 hour ago, sf1raptor said:

It isn't that. Everything FFG puts out with X-wing is balanced, or at least not impossible to contend with until it's balanced. Same applies here.

1 hour ago, Babaganoosh said:

Balance is important here too, if for no other reason than unbalanced games are not very fun ususally

Sorry about the typo. . .I agree that balance is critical all the time.

1 hour ago, sf1raptor said:

Everything FFG puts out with X-wing is balanced, or at least not impossible to contend with until it's balanced.

Sorry, friend, but you lost me here. I love X-Wing MG, but FFG releases a LOT of unbalanced things. Some very bad cards with high cost, some great cards with low cost, some crappy abilities, some game breaking mechanics. There are hundreds of cards in this game and you only see a dozen in the table.

The proof that this game is very flawed is, if you were going to remake it (for a 2nd edition), a great part of the cards would need a 1-3 points price drop to be competitive. Some cards are so bad that you wouldn't take them even with cost 0 (because they take an upgrade slot). And some cards, of course, would need a price increase (like U-Boats) or errata (like Biggs).

7 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well yeah, it shouldn be balanced. Guess I misunderstood what CCL was about. . .I thought it was more of a casual place to explore cards ideas. Sad to see yet another aspect of X-Wing driven by prize-winning.

My opinions on it have nothing to do with prizewinning. I just don't think it sounds fun, and really it adds nothing to a casual non-tournament game. Some of them have LITERALLY done nothing outside of a timed tournament match

6 hours ago, Odanan said:

Sorry, friend, but you lost me here. I love X-Wing MG, but FFG releases a LOT of unbalanced things. Some very bad cards with high cost, some great cards with low cost, some crappy abilities, some game breaking mechanics. There are hundreds of cards in this game and you only see a dozen in the table.

The proof that this game is very flawed is, if you were going to remake it (for a 2nd edition), a great part of the cards would need a 1-3 points price drop to be competitive. Some cards are so bad that you wouldn't take them even with cost 0 (because they take an upgrade slot). And some cards, of course, would need a price increase (like U-Boats) or errata (like Biggs).

Ok. I'll give you that.

1 hour ago, sf1raptor said:

Ok. I'll give you that.

Yet, it's a great game.

I just wish the designers had thought ahead (the mechanics), tested better their cards and found a better cost calculation from the very beginning. This way we wouldn't need those ugly "fixes" either by titles or FAQs.

Well I guess I can stop working on my custom Scurrg H-6 for season 2. Now to decide if I wanna make a different scum custom ship...

26 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Well I guess I can stop working on my custom Scurrg H-6 for season 2. Now to decide if I wanna make a different scum custom ship...

I'm the same with the TIE Aggressor.

I wonder how close we were.

Just now, Dr Fsticuffs said:

I'm the same with the TIE Aggressor.

I wonder how close we were.

On the plus(?) side, I've now designed a ship for both seasons of the CCL that FFG then announced before the ccl voting process was done. So we need to hurry up and get to season 3 so I can pick which ship I want in the game next...

1 hour ago, VanderLegion said:

On the plus(?) side, I've now designed a ship for both seasons of the CCL that FFG then announced before the ccl voting process was done. So we need to hurry up and get to season 3 so I can pick which ship I want in the game next...

Yeah! If you pull three in a row...yikes that's scary.

When is the deadline for the Imperial submissions? Originally it said March 20 but I was wondering if that has changed.

The deadline for imperial submissions is March 21, at 11:59pm EST

OK, I put a lot of hours in my Scum expansion.

I know there is a long time before the Scum submission, but please take a look at my "wares".

How do you upload cards from Strange Eons to this forum?

1 hour ago, JJFDVORAK said:

How do you upload cards from Strange Eons to this forum?

you'll need to put them up on an image hosting site such as imgur, and link to those pictures