42 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

You still haven't said what this adds to the game. ESPECIALLY since this version could easily affect who wins. Say you get your opponent down to 1 ship and they kill your last ship besides the sentinel landing craft and the game suddenly ends...except your landing craft is worth more than their ship. Now you just won the game. Even if their 1 remaining ship is guaranteed to kill your landing craft if the game goes on.

It forces the opposing player to kill that ship first. Sounds interesting.

1 hour ago, Odanan said:

It forces the opposing player to kill that ship first. Sounds interesting.

I thought people hated Biggs as a concept.

Also it's a troll card; you play only that ship and the game ends round 1.

Listen Mangipan, i know this can be hard to hear, it was for me for a while, but sometimes a concept just....isn't good. I'm afraid this is one of those things. I understand what you wanted to do, but it just doesnt need to be done.

There's already an option in the game if ending the match round 1 every game is somehow "trolling". It's called conceding, which is exactly what you're doing if you go to a 3-Dice final salvo immediately.

I'm not sure how much crossover with other games we get here, but in Magic there's a rule where if you run out of cards in your deck, you lose the game. It rarely comes into play but occasionally a deck will exist that tries to win the game by forcing your opponent to do that. In context, that would be like a squad that tried to win by setting up a beneficial final salvo.

But then a single card exists called Lab Maniac. If you've got him on the field when you run out of cards you win the game instead of losing. So if you're running him suddenly you might be self-destructively throwing away cards to win in an unusual way.

That's basically what I'm shooting for. A card that is probably too many hoops to jump through to be consistently worth aiming for but that sometimes in a weird situation can bail you out of an incredibly specific bad situation (The remaining enemy ships are guaranteed to kill your last two ships but are worth less than your shuttle and also you have a way to ensure that your second ship gets sacrificed while avoiding the shuttle going to half hits.)

It's a card called The Last Chance that offers you a last chance.

It encourages opponents not to leave it until last, but it doesn't force them to shoot it first. It just says "If you're going to focus on other ships first, be aware of the implications." Killing the rest of the list first is fine as long as you kill it with reasonable efficiency.

It also has counterplay- If the Last chance is 40 points, and I've got two Bwings down to their hull whenI finish off the rest of Hondo's list, I win on points even though I'd probbly lose if it went to time.

50 minutes ago, Mangipan said:

There's already an option in the game if ending the match round 1 every game is somehow "trolling". It's called conceding, which is exactly what you're doing if you go to a 3-Dice final salvo immediately.

Except when you concede your opponent gets full MoV as if they killed all of your ships. If you brought "just" the sentinal craft and went to the 3 dice final salvo, even if you lose your opponent gets 0 MoV for your ship.

50 minutes ago, Mangipan said:

It encourages opponents not to leave it until last, but it doesn't force them to shoot it first. It just says "If you're going to focus on other ships first, be aware of the implications." Killing the rest of the list first is fine as long as you kill it with reasonable efficiency.

Except you don't have to let your opponent pick. If it ever gets to a point where your sentinel is worth more than the rest of their list, you can just fly any of your other ships off the board to win. Which should never be an option as a way to win a game.

Quote

Vaksai

When attacking, roll one additional attack die. If the attack hits, cancel 1 attack die before the "Deal Damage" step.

Increase your shield value by 1.

how many points do people think that would be worth as a kihraxz fix? The vaksai version had heavier shields and stronger guns. Instead of simply making it 4 attack, this makes it more likely to hit than a 3 die attack, but still does a max of 3 damage. If you get 4 hits/crits, you just cancel a hit. If you get less than 4, you cancel a blank or eyeball (if you didn't spend a focus). Basically gives you a boost against high agility stuff and makes less of a difference against low agility

Would need wording to leave a minimum of one hit r crit remaining so 4 hits against 3 evades wouldn't cancel your only remaining hit. And maybe only make it cancel if the opponent didn't have any evade results

Yes, in the case of 4 hits for the attacker vs 3 evades, you hit your target but deal any damage... maybe adding a restriction like "you cannot deal more than 3 damages in an attack"

7 hours ago, CaptainBrochette said:

Yes, in the case of 4 hits for the attacker vs 3 evades, you hit your target but deal any damage... maybe adding a restriction like "you cannot deal more than 3 damages in an attack"

That's a nerf.

Range 1 exists, you know.

I know, I know, range 1 shot is important...
BUT
See this like a TLT : for the turret, you roll 6 red dice to only deal a maximum of 2 damages. I don't say that you limit the hit results but the damage deal after the compare result step (assuming it's for primary weapon only).

You're less efficent in front of low Agility ship but in the case of high agility aces, all hits beyonds your limit of 3 damages are evades results that you cancel.
With a range 1 shot of 5 red dice full modified, if you shoot on a x7 with focus and evade ; you still dealing 1 damage if it spend both token to get 4 evades.

Another main advantage is the fact that you optimize the probility of dealing damage with unmodified attack on average agility ship like the TLT currently do. So you can keep your action for any other things like barrel roll, keep your focus to defend, etc.

So, If the card is :

Quote

Vaskai, title, Xpts
When attacking with a primary weapon, rolling 1 additional red dice. If you do, after the compare results, cancels hit or crit result until it remain up to 3 at the most.

You can fully modify your short range shot to cripple High-agility aces and you can deal better damage with unmodified dice on average agility target.
I think you're more concern about the fact that this effect transform a "knife fighter" short range starfighter into a sharp shooter who favoured middle and long-range (like a Heavy scyk with mangler canon).
And this what this title do : turning the Kihraxz into a sort of bulky heavy scyk with a canon. You will play them the same way.

My current thought is something along the lines of:

Quote

Vaksai, Title, Kihraxz Only

When attacking, roll one additional attack die. If the attack hits and no attack dice were cancelled by evade results, cancel one attack die before the "Deal Damage" step.

Increase your shield value by 1.

This keeps the enforcement of not being able to do any higher max damage than the normal primary, but makes it more accurate. If you roll 4 hits/crits and opponent gets 0 evades, you cancel a hit and deal 3. If you roll 1 hit and opponent has no evades, you cancel a blank and still do the 1 damage. If you roll 4 hits/crits and opponent gets 3 evades, you don't cancel any more so you deal the 1 damage.

Alright. So after a couple of days of pondering I've got a new stab at the Last Chance title.

One issue I'm facing is that we know almost nothing about Hondo's ship. It has a name, it's laden with cargo, it's painted red. That's about the whole of it, which is one reason why I was going with the cowardice of the Ohnaka Gang as the thematic core to the design. Of course, making an upgrade to encourage a ship to not fight is problematic as we've seen and leads to the issue of "But this upgrade makes you want to not play X-Wing". I don't know what game it was trying to make you play instead but I'm sure an opponent wouldn't be happy.

So we look in a different direction. If the Last Chance is laden down with valuable cargo, perhaps this should be the factor at play. After all, the gang are trying to escape with their cargo so what if you received a bonus for surviving and a penalty for being shot down?

The exact points bonus/penalty is easy to adjust, but the idea is that you are wagering by putting this ship on the table. It costs no points to include the title, but you are betting your opponent that he can't shoot your vulnerable shuttle down (And you don't even have a convenient infinite-range support Crew that lets you hide in the corner). If you have the stones to throw down the challenge and the skill to pull it off, the title can help cover up the loss of other ships in your squad and preserve your margin of victory or even swing a close enough game to your favor. But if you mess it up you're going to hurt or possibly lose for it.

So that's the latest stab - a title that rather than telling you not to play X-Wing, tells you to play X-Wing well.

Of course, there are far more mundane options - the title could easily just buff up the ship when it was the last one on the board, or give it a bonus when it only had a single hull left. But for better or worse the theme I'm running with for the Ohnaka Gang is 'breaking the rules', so I'll keep toying around with odd options for as long as I can.

19 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

My current thought is something along the lines of:

This keeps the enforcement of not being able to do any higher max damage than the normal primary, but makes it more accurate. If you roll 4 hits/crits and opponent gets 0 evades, you cancel a hit and deal 3. If you roll 1 hit and opponent has no evades, you cancel a blank and still do the 1 damage. If you roll 4 hits/crits and opponent gets 3 evades, you don't cancel any more so you deal the 1 damage.

Ok. Sort of like my top Y-TIE ace.

10 hours ago, Mangipan said:

Alright. So after a couple of days of pondering I've got a new stab at the Last Chance title.

One issue I'm facing is that we know almost nothing about Hondo's ship. It has a name, it's laden with cargo, it's painted red. That's about the whole of it, which is one reason why I was going with the cowardice of the Ohnaka Gang as the thematic core to the design. Of course, making an upgrade to encourage a ship to not fight is problematic as we've seen and leads to the issue of "But this upgrade makes you want to not play X-Wing". I don't know what game it was trying to make you play instead but I'm sure an opponent wouldn't be happy.

So we look in a different direction. If the Last Chance is laden down with valuable cargo, perhaps this should be the factor at play. After all, the gang are trying to escape with their cargo so what if you received a bonus for surviving and a penalty for being shot down?

The exact points bonus/penalty is easy to adjust, but the idea is that you are wagering by putting this ship on the table. It costs no points to include the title, but you are betting your opponent that he can't shoot your vulnerable shuttle down (And you don't even have a convenient infinite-range support Crew that lets you hide in the corner). If you have the stones to throw down the challenge and the skill to pull it off, the title can help cover up the loss of other ships in your squad and preserve your margin of victory or even swing a close enough game to your favor. But if you mess it up you're going to hurt or possibly lose for it.

So that's the latest stab - a title that rather than telling you not to play X-Wing, tells you to play X-Wing well.

Of course, there are far more mundane options - the title could easily just buff up the ship when it was the last one on the board, or give it a bonus when it only had a single hull left. But for better or worse the theme I'm running with for the Ohnaka Gang is 'breaking the rules', so I'll keep toying around with odd options for as long as I can.

You still haven't told us WHY we need a title that affects the outcome of the game. Especially a 0 point title that has no other effect during the game itself. It's still really nothing to do with playing x-wing, it's betting on the game going to time and your opponent not havnig killed that ship yet.

10 hours ago, Mangipan said:

Alright. So after a couple of days of pondering I've got a new stab at the Last Chance title.

One issue I'm facing is that we know almost nothing about Hondo's ship. It has a name, it's laden with cargo, it's painted red. That's about the whole of it, which is one reason why I was going with the cowardice of the Ohnaka Gang as the thematic core to the design. Of course, making an upgrade to encourage a ship to not fight is problematic as we've seen and leads to the issue of "But this upgrade makes you want to not play X-Wing". I don't know what game it was trying to make you play instead but I'm sure an opponent wouldn't be happy.

So we look in a different direction. If the Last Chance is laden down with valuable cargo, perhaps this should be the factor at play. After all, the gang are trying to escape with their cargo so what if you received a bonus for surviving and a penalty for being shot down?

The exact points bonus/penalty is easy to adjust, but the idea is that you are wagering by putting this ship on the table. It costs no points to include the title, but you are betting your opponent that he can't shoot your vulnerable shuttle down (And you don't even have a convenient infinite-range support Crew that lets you hide in the corner). If you have the stones to throw down the challenge and the skill to pull it off, the title can help cover up the loss of other ships in your squad and preserve your margin of victory or even swing a close enough game to your favor. But if you mess it up you're going to hurt or possibly lose for it.

So that's the latest stab - a title that rather than telling you not to play X-Wing, tells you to play X-Wing well.

Of course, there are far more mundane options - the title could easily just buff up the ship when it was the last one on the board, or give it a bonus when it only had a single hull left. But for better or worse the theme I'm running with for the Ohnaka Gang is 'breaking the rules', so I'll keep toying around with odd options for as long as I can.

You know what i love about X-Wing? Every card released that isn't a Huge Ship Only card, is equally as usable in casual play as it is in tournament. Every single one. Every single card has an effect on the mechanics of gameplay itself.

This does not. This adds no useful mechanics, makes no useful adjustment or modifier to the GAME. This is a card that FFG would never release.

This is a 0 point card that makes entire TOURNAMENTS easier for the player that equips it.

Not the actual game played at those tournaments, though. Just the tournments themselves. This card has no effect on the game in casual play. Neither did any of it's earlier variants.

It should not exist.

Stop.

I've updated my work thread with recent ideas for a Tie aggressor expansion.

would appreciate some feedback on the imperial ships since they'll be dur for submission soon.

9 hours ago, Dr Fsticuffs said:

I've updated my work thread with recent ideas for a Tie aggressor expansion.

would appreciate some feedback on the imperial ships since they'll be dur for submission soon.

Feedback applied!

Also, just a general update: Imperial submissions will be due on or around March 20.

58 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

Feedback applied!

Also, just a general update: Imperial submissions will be due on or around March 20.

Where do we submit them?

15 minutes ago, sf1raptor said:

Where do we submit them?

I'll make a formal submission thread, but the format will be the same as rebel expansion submissions. Basically, send the images and .eon files to [email protected] and fill out one of the standard submission forms. Take a look at this submission to get an idea of what a filled out form looks like: PHOENIX SQDN

4 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

I'll make a formal submission thread, but the format will be the same as rebel expansion submissions. Basically, send the images and .eon files to [email protected] and fill out one of the standard submission forms. Take a look at this submission to get an idea of what a filled out form looks like: PHOENIX SQDN

Ok. All my ships should be ready then.

13 minutes ago, sf1raptor said:

Ok. All my ships should be ready then.

Nice. If you need more input on the ships, I suggest floating them on the X-wing reddit. They're very eager to do so over there.

5 hours ago, Babaganoosh said:

Nice. If you need more input on the ships, I suggest floating them on the X-wing reddit. They're very eager to do so over there.

I don't have a Reddit account.

9 hours ago, Babaganoosh said:

Nice. If you need more input on the ships, I suggest floating them on the X-wing reddit. They're very eager to do so over there.

Just posted here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/5x1mx8/ccl_vassal_custom_card_league_imperial_acepack/

On 01/03/2017 at 10:02 AM, VanderLegion said:

You still haven't told us WHY we need a title that affects the outcome of the game. Especially a 0 point title that has no other effect during the game itself. It's still really nothing to do with playing x-wing, it's betting on the game going to time and your opponent not havnig killed that ship yet.

There are two months until Scum submissions are due, which is time for things to be turned on their heads completely. But it is also time for me to explore an idea fully before discarding it out of hand because two guys didn't like it.

There's a reason why I'm spitballing ideas around here rather than in it's own thread - this is very early and very rough. But the way the game ends is a massive part of the game and changing it alters gameplay by literally effecting the way that you play the game, because you're trying to achieve a different outcome than you would be otherwise.

For the Team Covenant Open vassal tournament, they rebalanced Emperor Palpatine. His points cost is changed to negative eight points, but if his ship is destroyed or his card discarded you immediately lose. I see things like that and it's so compelling from a design standpoint and such a flavour home run. If Palpatine is dead it doesn't matter what else happens, the Empire has already lost. There's nothing else that quite captures that flavour right now, but if you told me I had to give you a Supreme Leader Snoke tomorrow you can bet that's the first direction I'd be looking in.

By changing the way the game ends you alter the scenario. Every tournament game is a 100 point dogfight to the death, but what if it wasn't. What if you had a card that let you achieve victory in another way? I don't know what that way is yet but you can be **** sure I'm going to keep trying to figure it out.

In any scenario that you play you will naturally fly and play differently to a standard dogfight, because your priorities are warped by the objectives. It's exactly the same here - a card that effects the outcome of the game effects the game by altering your priorities.

On 01/03/2017 at 10:10 AM, Razgriz25thinf said:

Stop.

Um. No?

We try things, and sometimes they even work. But by not exploring new design space, and believe me the end of the game is a huge space that is ripe for exploration, we will always miss things.

Like don't get me wrong, I appreciate being told that things don't work, but I'm coming in here to bounce ideas around, get some feedback and do some brainstorming. What has happened instead is "No never think about this stop trying."

Prior to Wave 8, I had a design for Discord Missiles (As seen in Revenge of the Sith, deploying Buzz Droids and ruining Obi-Wan's day) which said "If this attack hits, the defender must choose and discard an equipped upgrade card." The response it received was knee-jerk negativity. I was told that upgrade cards are sacred, that they should never be touched, that I was making terrible and un-fun cards and that I should throw away my design and not look at it again. Then along comes Boba Fett and it turns out that discarding upgrade cards, in a much cheaper and more precise manner, isn't actually a big deal.

So in short, I'll keep messing around in any new design space I can find because the entire point of this exercise is to introduce new and interesting ships that aren't simply a retread of what we've seen before, and if we're not innovating we're stagnating.

After my diet N-1 expansion received much better votes than my Phoenix Squadron expansion, I came to the conclusion that, if you want your cards in the league, you better keep them conservative and don't inovate much. People are afraid (sometimes righfully) of the possible interations.