6 hours ago, CaptainBrochette said:

i'm curious about one thing :
If someone made a partisan's Xwing (T-65) as a Scum ship (with Saw Guerrera & his band). The ship count as a new ship or count as an ace pack ? (It's the same question for the minning Guild TIE and Scum YT series)

There's a Partisan X-wing title in one of the packs that's in the revision phase now, actually. I think that's the best approach; from what we saw the partisan X-wing looked like a normal x-wing with a different paintjob.

Originally Rogue Veterans began life as Partisan Veterans, but it was still a Rebel ship because Saw's Rebels are, well, Rebels. It had Partisan pilots. Then the movie happened and no emphasis was placed on the Partisan X-Wings so it became Rogue Veterans.

10 hours ago, CaptainBrochette said:

i'm curious about one thing :
If someone made a partisan's Xwing (T-65) as a Scum ship (with Saw Guerrera & his band). The ship count as a new ship or count as an ace pack ? (It's the same question for the minning Guild TIE and Scum YT series)

Just a heads up, I'd personally downvote a partisan XWing for scum. Not because I have an issues with the ship crossing factions, just because the Partisans *werent scum*. They absolutely belong in the rebel faction IMO.

Dunno how other people feel about it

similarly I'd consider the mining guild more as part of the empire than as scum

4 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Just a heads up, I'd personally downvote a partisan XWing for scum. Not because I have an issues with the ship crossing factions, just because the Partisans *werent scum*. They absolutely belong in the rebel faction IMO.

Dunno how other people feel about it

similarly I'd consider the mining guild more as part of the empire than as scum

Yeah they've got an anti-Empire agenda that doesn't match well with what I consider scum. But as to whether that would be a new ship or aces pack, I'd probably consider it more of an aces pack, since the base ship dial/stats are previously established.

33 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

Yeah they've got an anti-Empire agenda that doesn't match well with what I consider scum. But as to whether that would be a new ship or aces pack, I'd probably consider it more of an aces pack, since the base ship dial/stats are previously established.

Yeah, this is exactly my reasoning for making the Partisans Rebels in the original Partisan Veterans expansion. Their entire mission statement is "Oppose the Empire." Scum's tends to be "Make Credits." "Oppose the Empire" sounds more like the Rebellion....

1 minute ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

Yeah, this is exactly my reasoning for making the Partisans Rebels in the original Partisan Veterans expansion. Their entire mission statement is "Oppose the Empire." Scum's tends to be "Make Credits." "Oppose the Empire" sounds more like the Rebellion....

Right; Scum are motivated more by personal agendas (more money or personal power), while the rebels are motivated by a desire to bring down the Empire. The partisans, as depicted, have an anti-empire motivation, I think.

6 hours ago, Babaganoosh said:

Right; Scum are motivated more by personal agendas (more money or personal power), while the rebels are motivated by a desire to bring down the Empire. The partisans, as depicted, have an anti-empire motivation, I think.

And even Scum like Fenn Ra who dislike the Empire are more focus on keeping themselves safe, or in Ra's case his clan.

I've started working on some ideas for a Scum Sentinel-Class Landing Craft expansion. I'm not quite ready to put up its own thread, but wanted to share some of my initial work to see if the direction I was taking it seemed worthwhile to people. It's easier to shift gears in early design than it is in late design, fter all.

Yes, the Sentinel Shuttle is an Imperial ship, but given its similarity to the Lambda and the faction's glut of shuttles I think it's unlikely we'll ever see it there. However in Rebels, we see Hondo Ohnaka's stolen Sentinel shuttle the Last Chance. I think despite the prevalence of Large-based ships in the faction it has an interesting place as a cheap crew carrier and can offer some versatile and compelling options.

The base stats are similar to a Lambda, though it loses the single Agility for a sturdier profile. Our only generic pilot is a little more skilled than the Omicron Group Pilot, but through a unique modification has a lot of flexibility to include different secondary weapons and swap them out as the situation warrants. The Sentinel has an assortment of retractable turrets, missiles and other weapons, so it seemed appropriate to be able to surprise your opponent with a volley of Assault Missiles or an Autoblaster Turret that they never expected. Of course you need to pay for your initial loadout, but the more points you put into it the more flexibility you will have during the game.

For the named pilots of the Ohnaka Gang, there is a definite theme of "Change the rules to suit us". Both Azmorigan and Hondo can operate under completely different rules to any other ship, playing to Azmorigan's cowardice and Hondo's cheating nature - there's no way that the cunning old pirate would be caught in a fair fight.

He who steals and runs away lives to steal another day. Hondo has made a life out of abandoning the situation when it turned against him, and from his proud beginnings as the leader of a mighty pirate gang has downsized again and again until he has been left only with his shuttle, the Last Chance. Here we see him again changing the rules to suit himself, because if Hondo flees from a fight, that is not a defeat - any fight that Hondo survives is a victory for Hondo.

Missiles are naturally much less useful for the Sentinel's Retractable Weapons than other upgrade types, due to their one-shot nature. This gives a perfect spot to a dual card I've had kicking around, which conveniently can be exchanged back and forth with a Twin Laser Turret as the situation warrants (Also convenient - when you switch back to the Repeater Rockets, as the card is coming in afresh, they can always be Loaded and ready to fire. Even if you switched away from them on the Reloading side.)

Of course, a shuttle means crew and here we get Hondo himself. Hondo is a fun character because he is never on anyone else's side. Hondo looks out for one person exactly and that person is Hondo. So for Hondo's card I definitely wanted something that was potentially helpful or potentially harmful, depending on the situation. Having Hondo as an ally should always be risky business.

Again, we see him changing rules that only one man is allowed to touch, but I think this card offers really interesting tactical implications. If you're taking it, you care about initiative. But you don't care enough about initiative to make an actual bid, and are happy to get screwed half the time in return for an advantage the other half. Coupled with him taking up an incredibly valuable Crew slot makes him an always questionable decision to include in your squad.

If the Sentinel is a Lambda shuttle equivalent for Scum, and we are operating under the idea that a submission to this league should be including upgrades that will be worth putting on the table and building around, then a "Scum Palpatine" seems a necessary inclusion in this expansion. I went through a number of powerful Scum characters, but Maul seemed most appropriate to continue with the Rebels theme I've been working with. This was originally a design for Prince Xizor, but I think that Rebels Maul is an appropriately diabolical scheming mastermind. It's a very different ability to Palpatine, but I think that's important. Maul is a manipulator and a schemer, so this ability really gives you the sense of some sort of evil master plan coming to fruition. Because he's forced to commit to a certain ratio of focus and stress you can see vaguely what he's trying to achieve, but will never exactly figure it out until it all falls into place. "Distribute" is a bit of rules jargon I grabbed from Magic:tG to save some space and in essence means "Assign any number of those tokens to each of the legal targets."

2 hours ago, Mangipan said:

He who steals and runs away lives to steal another day. Hondo has made a life out of abandoning the situation when it turned against him, and from his proud beginnings as the leader of a mighty pirate gang has downsized again and again until he has been left only with his shuttle, the Last Chance. Here we see him again changing the rules to suit himself, because if Hondo flees from a fight, that is not a defeat - any fight that Hondo survives is a victory for Hondo.

Um.

Absolutely not.

Exactly, what, mind, you, is stopping someone from loading it up with support abilities and as many points as possible and pairing it with 1 or 2 super aces, then running it off the board when they die to deny the enemy MOV? You're giving the power to a player to be super scummy in real life to another opponent.

And i'm honestly not entirely sure what other purpose this title could serve. It's a title designed to make you fortress as many points into it and flipping your opponent off as you run it off the board.

Exactly what super aces? You have Fenn Rau who melts as soon as anyone looks at him unless you've got Manaroo feeding him tokens and... nothing else? Asajj is weird and alright but she'll go down without support. Teroch is a really second-rate Fenn. Zuckuss is playable, but not exactly good. I just don't know what Scum ships you're fielding that are worrying in this scenario?

Yes it's a bull ability but everything has context and you have to literally fly your ship off the board to get any benefit from it. If it's that bad it could be amended to "Flee of a non-friendly board edge" or "Flee off your opponents board edge" or invoke the half-hitpoints rule or something.

But genuinely I don't get the knee-jerk because there just isn't the support to make the rest of your list that terrifying. Scum aces aren't that scary without Manaroo, and if you have Manaroo you're only packing one ace.

4 minutes ago, Mangipan said:

Exactly what super aces? You have Fenn Rau who melts as soon as anyone looks at him unless you've got Manaroo feeding him tokens and... nothing else? Asajj is weird and alright but she'll go down without support. Teroch is a really second-rate Fenn. Zuckuss is playable, but not exactly good. I just don't know what Scum ships you're fielding that are worrying in this scenario?

Yes it's a bull ability but everything has context and you have to literally fly your ship off the board to get any benefit from it. If it's that bad it could be amended to "Flee of a non-friendly board edge" or "Flee off your opponents board edge" or invoke the half-hitpoints rule or something.

But genuinely I don't get the knee-jerk because there just isn't the support to make the rest of your list that terrifying. Scum aces aren't that scary without Manaroo, and if you have Manaroo you're only packing one ace.

Assaj and Fenn together sound pretty amazing. How about Dengar? Maybe Ketsu Onyo? What about the custom ship added for Scum? Did you even consider there might be a super good Ace in there?

The point is that there is absolutely no reason for this title to even exist. Tell me; What does it add, gameplay wise? What new mechanic does it add that makes the game more interesting to play?

Trick question, there isn't one.

"Oh, you're winning? You're probably gonna get a full 100 points soon? Nah, i run this 50 point ship off the board. Have fun with your 50 point MOV win."

That's what it adds. I am very significantly opposed to this expansion as long as that title is a part of your expansion.

12 minutes ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

What about the custom ship added for Scum? Did you even consider there might be a super good Ace in there?

I agree the card shouldn't exist, but as for the above question, this IS a custom ship. If this card/expansion were added, it would BE the custom ship for scum.

41 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

I agree the card shouldn't exist, but as for the above question, this IS a custom ship. If this card/expansion were added, it would BE the custom ship for scum.

oh, duh.

Well, in any case, it's not like Scum is struggling in the "Really Powerful Singlular Ships" Front.

My question is if this ship is any actual use as a point fortress. Saving 50 MOV is easy- just build a 50 point list. (Supposedly a year or two back someone entered a tournament with Soontier Fel and a 65 point bid. He even won a few rounds) What made the old fat han point fortresses useful was that they carried their own weight long enough to get a lead.

4 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

My question is if this ship is any actual use as a point fortress. Saving 50 MOV is easy- just build a 50 point list. (Supposedly a year or two back someone entered a tournament with Soontier Fel and a 65 point bid. He even won a few rounds) What made the old fat han point fortresses useful was that they carried their own weight long enough to get a lead.

It's not even really the point. It's only use is as a method to save MOV when you're losing. You cram it full as as much useful equipment as you can or just run it naked, and save 1/4th or more of your MOV so that you can never lose 0-100.

2 hours ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

It's not even really the point. It's only use is as a method to save MOV when you're losing. You cram it full as as much useful equipment as you can or just run it naked, and save 1/4th or more of your MOV so that you can never lose 0-100.

But a loss IS still a loss. If hondo stays close enough to the edge

21 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

But a loss IS still a loss. If hondo stays close enough to the edge

I can't believe i have to keep explaining this. This is pretty simple stuff.

What does it add to the game? Tell me what it adds to the game. X-Wing cards shouldn't just exist because of a Why Not. X-Wing cards need a reason to exist. This one has no reason. It's only objective is to add annoying play to the game. All you're doing is saying it does nothing in the first place, right(even though that's not true, the different between getting 0-100'd and 0-50 or 0-60'd is pretty profound and could mean the difference between making the cut and not making the cut)? So what does it do? Why does it exist?

Well, you're contradicting yourself - it can't both be a broken point-fortress and a pointless upgrade that does nothing.

Realistically, the intent of the card was to give you a way to lose less badly if a situation turned ugly for you - there's no Palpatine crew for the faction so you can't just run and hug the board edge with it if you want it to contribute in any way, and if it isn't contributing it's no worse than taking a 25+ point initiative bid.Which actually gives you a benefit unlike a shuttle that runs away all day. With a shuttle dial, that dive for the board edge isn't exactly a no-effort move either, and if you time it wrong you'll just end up facing the wrong way and getting your stupid squishy shuttle blown up. As far as I'm concerned playing to only lose a little bit from the beginning is pretty bad play - better to have a gameplan around winning, not around losing. But if you have a spare point to throw it in there's an out from a bad situation you have that other ships don't.

That said, it's gotten a pretty stern reaction so it might be back on the drafting table for the title.

Not a submission (at least not for this season), but what you guys think about this?

(maybe the Beam Mounting should be restricted to ships more expensive than 15 squad points or something?)

I don't love adding another 1 attack ship to the game

34 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

I don't love adding another 1 attack ship to the game

If there is a ship that should have 1 attack, it is this one.

And with that title, you will have least 3 extra missiles - hard to need that primary attack.

5 minutes ago, Odanan said:

If there is a ship that should have 1 attack, it is this one.

And with that title, you will have least 3 extra missiles - hard to need that primary attack.

Sucks for you if you don't get your target lock to FIRE a missile. Or if you opponent has black one or Elusiveness. Or you want to shoot a manaroo when they have another ship not in your arc

LRS or Deadeye would basically be a requirement.

Alright, I'm still spitballing ideas here, but this gives the title better tactical implications and better options for counterplay from your opponent.

2 hours ago, Mangipan said:

Alright, I'm still spitballing ideas here, but this gives the title better tactical implications and better options for counterplay from your opponent.

You still haven't said what this adds to the game. ESPECIALLY since this version could easily affect who wins. Say you get your opponent down to 1 ship and they kill your last ship besides the sentinel landing craft and the game suddenly ends...except your landing craft is worth more than their ship. Now you just won the game. Even if their 1 remaining ship is guaranteed to kill your landing craft if the game goes on.