I was starting to do some preliminary list building to prepare for the FFG Roseville Regionals in February today, and thus I was looking through the Jabba's Realm previews for what the power units would be. Like many others, I instantly took a look at Terro, Dewbacks Riders, and Jabba. Like many others, I took one look at the Elite Weequay Pirates and instantly decided they weren't worth the time vs the OBVIOUSLY better Regular HK Assassin Droid. Then I looked again. And crunched some numbers. I think we may be overlooking the stealth power unit of Jabba's Realm.

To start with, let's look at the cards in question:

Elite Weequay Pirates

7 points, 4 Reinforce, 2 figures

Smuggler - Hunter

+2 Accuracy, ~:+2 Damage, ~:Pierce 1, ~:+2 Accuracy

->Prowl: You become Hidden.

Raider: When attacking, you may choose one die. The player who rolled that die must reroll it.

Health: 6

Speed: 4

Defense: B

Attack: Ranged GG

--------------------

HK Assassin Droid

8 points, 4 Reinforce, 2 figures

Droid - Hunter

~:+1 Damage, ~:Pierce 1, ~:Weaken

Targeting Computer: When attacking, you may reroll an attack die.

Versatile Weaponry: When attacking, you may choose a defense die. The defending player must reroll that die.

Health: 5

Speed: 4

Defense: B

Attack: Ranged BBY

----------------------------

Now, a point by point analysis:

Cost: The Weequay are a point cheaper

Advantage: Weequay

Traits: The Smuggler trait has many, MANY more associated Command Cards, and those cards of indisputably higher quality, than the Droid trait and it's associated cards. Both units share the powerful Hunter trait.

Advantage: Weequay

Surges: Both have a Pierce 1, which is of middling quality. The Weequay have access to an accuracy surge and an all important +2 damage surge. Compare that to the HK's +1 Damage and Weaken surges.

Advantage: Weequay

Abilities: The Weequay has access to the Hidden condition at the cost of an action. It pays for this relative to the HK by only being able to reroll one die of any type in each attack, while the HK gets to reroll both an attack and a defense in each combat. I'd call this slightly in favor of the HK in overall power of abilities, but the hiding comes back when we start looking at numbers. See below.

Advantage: HKs

Speed: The units are equal in the speed stat. Additionally, the fragility of the HKs and the cost of an action to hide the Weequay encourage both units to hang back in the first round and engage in the second round.

Advantage: Equal

Defense: This is where the Weequay truly shine when compared to the HKs. While it may not seem like much, the 1 additional health on the Weequay protect them from getting Stampeded and then Crushed by Bantha. Additionally, it was my experience piloting HKs to a Top 16 finish at Worlds that many times, an HK will be killed by going to exactly 5 damage, whereas that unit would stay on the board and necessitate further attacks if they had 6 health. Finally, the Weequay have obnoxiously easy access to the Hidden condition, which makes them harder to hit from range. This can come in handy, as the Weequay generally need to stand a bit closer to hit their targets than the HKs do. If hiding helps them avoid even one attack, a Weequay has already outlasted a notoriously fragile HK by a significant margin.

Advantage: Weequay

Offense: Here is where I had to seriously crunch the numbers. For my analysis, I'm comparing a Hidden Weequay vs an unmodified HK, which is the condition you would expect in round 2 as the 2 teams begin to collide into each other.

Before I go further, here are the numbers, as calculated by adding the average, minimum, and maximum results for each symbol on each die in the attack pools:

Hidden Weequay:

Average (Min-Max)

GG + ~ + 2 Acc

Dmg: 3.5 (0-4)

Surges: 2.33 (1-3)

Range: 5.67 (4-10)

HK:

BBY

DMG: 3.16 (0-6)

Surges: 1.16 (0-4)

Range: 7.33 (4-12)

I have not implemented any surge abilities into these averages, nor have I the math-fu to implement rerolls. However, even the raw stats can be illuminative.

Before surges are added (of which the Weequay roll DOUBLE what the HKs do), the weequay do slightly more damage on average, while the HKs have a higher maximum. After surge abilities, though, the Weequay have a MINIMUM of 2 damage, and that's if they roll only 2 surges, in which case they get to use all their abilities when the hiding surge is added in.

The HKs have a higher average range, but again the Weequay's surplus of surges come to the rescue, allowing you to add accuracy to your results, while if, after a reroll you've still missed a shot with HKs you are poodoo outta luck.

Advantage: Weequay when Hidden, HKs when Weequay is not hidden.

Conclusion: I believe that while at first glance the Weequay pirate does not look like much, its lower cost, superior surges, access to Hidden, higher HP, and similar damage profile makes the humble Skiff Guard a match for the venerable, much played, and incredibly powerful HK Assassin Droid. I intend to play the crap out of Weequay to find out if this is the indeed the case.

Do you like my analysis? Do you think I'm kriffin' insane? Tell me about it in the comments below!

This has been my notion for a very long time. I'm suprised there hasn't been a warmer welcome for the Weequays. Especially when you start to consider using two squads. Saving 2 points allow a good deal of flexibility on the rest of the list. Or you could give the Prey On The Weak. With a figure cost of 4, they'll get the accuracy and pierce 1 auto against trooper-like lists and still only cost the same as HKs.

You can use this awesome site to get some nice and easy graphs;

http://mattyellen.github.io/imperial-assault-calculator/

(not my site, someone posted it in another thread and I bookmarked it ever since).

Bottom line is that indeed with Hidden, the Weequays are slightly better in damage (before rerolls, the site doesn't include that option), and without they are worse in damage (and because they have less reroll, become even worse).
The ambiguity really comes from the hidden action; costing an action is very big. It means you won't get off a good long range shot on turn 1 (which can happen easily with HK's) since move + hidden is already 2 actions.

The shot in round 2 will be very good (better than HK's probably), but then afterwards, you can either move OR hide with your second action. You'd probably move and shoot each round from then on, in which case the HK's would be slightly better... if they are not already dead.

The HK's are better in constant consistent damage each turn. The Weequays are much more like Rebel Troopers in that they take time to setup. Luckily there are cards that help like opportunistic and the new On the Lam, but I wonder if lists have room for the latter.

I think it very much depends on your list and what you want to do, which of the 2 units you would prefer (and how much room you have left..)

They are very close in power, but play very differently I think.

You can use this awesome site to get some nice and easy graphs;

http://mattyellen.github.io/imperial-assault-calculator/

(not my site, someone posted it in another thread and I bookmarked it ever since).

Bottom line is that indeed with Hidden, the Weequays are slightly better in damage (before rerolls, the site doesn't include that option), and without they are worse in damage (and because they have less reroll, become even worse).

The ambiguity really comes from the hidden action; costing an action is very big. It means you won't get off a good long range shot on turn 1 (which can happen easily with HK's) since move + hidden is already 2 actions.

The shot in round 2 will be very good (better than HK's probably), but then afterwards, you can either move OR hide with your second action. You'd probably move and shoot each round from then on, in which case the HK's would be slightly better... if they are not already dead.

The HK's are better in constant consistent damage each turn. The Weequays are much more like Rebel Troopers in that they take time to setup. Luckily there are cards that help like opportunistic and the new On the Lam, but I wonder if lists have room for the latter.

I think it very much depends on your list and what you want to do, which of the 2 units you would prefer (and how much room you have left..)

They are very close in power, but play very differently I think.

I looked at the calculator, but unfortunately it does not give you values for surges or range, not does it factor rerolls. Therefore, I had to go back to my trusty spreadsheet and use the averages of each die and add them together.

I agree on the consistency of damage from HKs: three dice with a reroll is a big deal. The problem is keeping them around into round 3 or 4. They're SO SQUISHY.

As to Command Cards, the ability to use Smuggled Supplies and Slippery Target can really make up for the action inefficiency of hiding as an action, and Dirty Trick can greatly aid in their defense.

I think the 1 point of HP is significant. Going from 5 to 6 HP is a 20% increase. And for 1 point less. A focused eStormtrooper has a 33% chance of doing 5 damage to a black die and only an 8% chance of doing 6 (before rerolls, that is). That's quite an increase in toughness.

Your analysis agrees with my experience playing them with proxies. They're both very good groups and I think pirates are well worth 7 points. Sometimes you'll have 8 points and want the HKs for their great base range, but sometimes you'll want the greater survivability of the Pirates or the lower points. Green-Green is an awesome dice roll that is very consistent.

You can use this awesome site to get some nice and easy graphs;

http://mattyellen.github.io/imperial-assault-calculator/

(not my site, someone posted it in another thread and I bookmarked it ever since).

Bottom line is that indeed with Hidden, the Weequays are slightly better in damage (before rerolls, the site doesn't include that option), and without they are worse in damage (and because they have less reroll, become even worse).

The ambiguity really comes from the hidden action; costing an action is very big. It means you won't get off a good long range shot on turn 1 (which can happen easily with HK's) since move + hidden is already 2 actions.

The shot in round 2 will be very good (better than HK's probably), but then afterwards, you can either move OR hide with your second action. You'd probably move and shoot each round from then on, in which case the HK's would be slightly better... if they are not already dead.

The HK's are better in constant consistent damage each turn. The Weequays are much more like Rebel Troopers in that they take time to setup. Luckily there are cards that help like opportunistic and the new On the Lam, but I wonder if lists have room for the latter.

I think it very much depends on your list and what you want to do, which of the 2 units you would prefer (and how much room you have left..)

They are very close in power, but play very differently I think.

I looked at the calculator, but unfortunately it does not give you values for surges or range, not does it factor rerolls. Therefore, I had to go back to my trusty spreadsheet and use the averages of each die and add them together.

I agree on the consistency of damage from HKs: three dice with a reroll is a big deal. The problem is keeping them around into round 3 or 4. They're SO SQUISHY.

As to Command Cards, the ability to use Smuggled Supplies and Slippery Target can really make up for the action inefficiency of hiding as an action, and Dirty Trick can greatly aid in their defense.

I agree, I'll probably end up believing there somewhere in the middle (not as bad as I think and not as good as you're projecting)

I'm curious as to why you include the HIDE as a given. It requires an action which in my book is another drawback for the weequay (nevermind the regular ones) HK have better damage and range and chance of a surge without any enhancement. I think the biggest boost for the HK over the eWee is the ability (Built-in mind you) of double rerolls. Reroll to get a better result AND make the opponent reroll his die which eliminates (sometimes the Dodge or triple block or any of those things that can ruin your day.

I don't see them supplanting the HK anytime soon, I wrote in another post that I actually see them as worse in every catagory except for the Health and point cost.

The regulars could be great at 4pts, but at 5 with a loss of accuracy and pierce and no chance of HIDE they are decidedly worse than the elites. they feel like they are paying an extra point for the reroll ability which at times will be really good, but most of the time you'll be wishing you could get the both rerolls and you'll probably be standing closer than you'd like due to their diminished accuracy.

Between the reasonable accuracy, the Hide action and Jabba handing out Focus, I want to try some ePirates with Explosive Armaments.

Why not just use both?? Thats 30 pts. You can put in Jabba and Gideon/Alliance for remaining 10 pts.

~D

Actually it's 20, which means you can add a nice little Rancor!

Or just go full sniper squads:

Elite Rangers

HK

Bossk

EWeequay

Gideon

Explosion armements

Temp alliance

That list is far too squishy at short range without a viable front line. If we replaced the eRanger and Explosive Armaments with ePig and Vinto we'd have a viable front line to keep people away from our squishy snipers while they did most of the combat work.

Yeah def squishy i'll give you that...

When you say ePig, that's a Gam Guard yeah?

I keep debating on whether to post this, but I've found the eWeequay very average and I still stand by my statement that the HK is every bit better and well worth the 1 pt extra

Is this just a play of words or an actual difference?

HK:

Versatile Weaponry: While attacking, you may force the defender to reroll 1 defense die.

Targeting Computer: While attacking, you may reroll 1 attack die.

Weequay Pirate:

Raider: While attacking, you may choose 1 die. The player that rolled that die must reroll that die.

Different.

The HK "Versatile Weaponry" only allows a defender re-roll, and targeting computer does 1 of your own....the Weequay can force either a defender re-roll OR one of your own.

The Weequay rule is better than either Versatile Weaponry or Targeting Computer, but worse than both of them combined.

Did that make sense?

Is this just a play of words or an actual difference?

HK:

Versatile Weaponry: While attacking, you may force the defender to reroll 1 defense die.

Targeting Computer: While attacking, you may reroll 1 attack die.

Weequay Pirate:

Raider: While attacking, you may choose 1 die. The player that rolled that die must reroll that die.

Different.

The HK "Versatile Weaponry" only allows a defender re-roll, and targeting computer does 1 of your own....the Weequay can force either a defender re-roll OR one of your own.

The Weequay rule is better than either Versatile Weaponry or Targeting Computer, but worse than both of them combined.

Did that make sense?

Not really. While attacking, I will never use a black or white dice. Thus, if I choose a black dice while attacking to reroll, only the defend will reroll it. And if I choose to reroll an attack dice, the defend does not have one. I don't see any difference between HK and a Weequay Pirate with regard to this.

Um....i'll try to make my admittedly rushed post clearer. The Weequay can either re-roll one of the defenders dice or one of your own. It looks like this:

Versatile weaponry: 1 enemy defence die

Targeting computer: 1 own attack die

Raider: 1 die belonging to either player (so 1 defence OR 1 attack)

Versatile Weaponry + Targeting Computer: 1 enemy defence die AND 1 own attack die

So Raider is not as good as the HKs combo of both the HK rules.

The Weequays can reroll a total of 1 die.

HKs a total of 2 die.

Is this just a play of words or an actual difference?

HK:

Versatile Weaponry: While attacking, you may force the defender to reroll 1 defense die.

Targeting Computer: While attacking, you may reroll 1 attack die.

Weequay Pirate:

Raider: While attacking, you may choose 1 die. The player that rolled that die must reroll that die.

Different.

The HK "Versatile Weaponry" only allows a defender re-roll, and targeting computer does 1 of your own....the Weequay can force either a defender re-roll OR one of your own.

The Weequay rule is better than either Versatile Weaponry or Targeting Computer, but worse than both of them combined.

Did that make sense?

Not really. While attacking, I will never use a black or white dice. Thus, if I choose a black dice while attacking to reroll, only the defend will reroll it. And if I choose to reroll an attack dice, the defend does not have one. I don't see any difference between HK and a Weequay Pirate with regard to this.

Walk with me.

My humble eWeequay declares an attack against a Rebel Trooper. I roll 2 green dice and get two 2D, 2A faces. A decent roll, but could technically be better.

The Rebel Trooper rolls a Dodge! Son of a gundark, I just wasted my attack and if I reroll an attack die, I still miss. But wait! Raider allows me to choose any die involved in the combat and the player who rolled it has to reroll. I chose the white die, and it gets rerolled into a blank face. Score! 4 damage on that trooper!

Basically, Weequay are allowed to reroll any SINGLE die involved in the combat. Did you roll a bad face on a green? Reroll! Did your opponent roll a dodge? Make him reroll it!

The Weequays can reroll a total of 1 die.

HKs a total of 2 die.

This makes sense Thank you.

This coupled with the new scoring rules in tournaments, makes HK head and shoulders above the eWeequay.

The new scoring rules is definitely an advantage to HKs. I still think saving the point is 'something' at least. Allows you to squeeze something else in. I need to try them out in action, to see if they feel worse or not.

In the boardwars.eu vassal tourney, people seemed to be using eWeequays over HKs and seemed to be having some success. Just trying out new figures? Or are the eWeequays a better choice?

bringing it back . . . .

I believe they serve similar purposes, longish range attacks with a reroll. HK get the reroll on offense and defense, Weequay have to choose

both cost you 8 (4+4) if you lose them, eWeequay cost you less when building a list and are more thematic to a desert bounty hunter list.

+2 is better than +1 and pierce slightly, surge cancellation figures make both harder to hit and do their damage.

On 4/1/2017 at 0:15 PM, randomplatypus said:

In the boardwars.eu vassal tourney, people seemed to be using eWeequays over HKs and seemed to be having some success. Just trying out new figures? Or are the eWeequays a better choice?

Speaking for myself... it was a little bit of trying out eWeequays and a little bit of making sure I had that extra Deployment point for the Black Market skirmish attachment.

I know if I'm going to run 2 groups of ranged attackers, I'd probably favor eWeequays (Deployment cost: 14) over rHKs (Deployment cost: 16) so I could afford additional skirmish attachments or an higher-cost deployment like Bossk/Shyla/Rancor/etc.