Hi guys,

I have already posted on the subject of introducing someone to the game, but my concern is slightly different here.

Basically I have a few friends who like X wing, but unfortunately on an occasional basis and they own few or no miniatures of the game.

I mean, I am a very casual player (2-3 games a week maybe), but the friends I am playing with would play only with me once a month let's say.

So overall there is a significant difference in the way we play. Not that I am very good at all but I just do less mistakes and I am starting to have some ideas on the way to move ships together etc.

So my question to you, how do you make it fun for both players, and avoid frustration to lose for the occasional player ?

Shall I build slightly stronger list for them (in points and composition) ? The thing I do not like with this option is that I do not get to try/practice against a "real list".

Thanks.

A.

Heros of the Aturi Cluster is one. Scenarios are fun as well. Spice things up so it doesn't end up one sided like play 200 points of you vs them. Lots of fun options for xwing on the casual scene.

Give the occasional player the option: I'll give you a strong list and try to destroy you, or you build a list and I'll try out some fun weirdness that I'm not sure will work. This way, there's no pressure on you. I recommend the easy-fly tough list as three Defender X7s, Ryad as the lead with two generics. They'll always be tough, even in the hands of an occasional player.....fly casual.

Build a competitive list for them. And a "fun" list for you. I find I still have fun even when I lose. The last thing you want to do is to dominate your opponent and cause them not to enjoy the game. Otherwise they might want to play Catan next time. Barf!

List building is part of the fun, so let them play what they want and offer pointers afterwards if they wish it.

Meanwhile, if you want to try something crazy, now's the time.

Shall I build slightly stronger list for them (in points and composition) ? The thing I do not like with this option is that I do not get to try/practice against a "real list".

I think this notion needs to take a back seat for now. If your friends aren't super into the game, you need to play more casual squads with fewer card interactions until they get to the point where they're comfortable with it. I think the focus needs to be on flying ships and having fun, rather than focusing on "real lists."

If you're getting 2-3 other games per week, then let the time you spend with these once-a-month friends be a time to relax and just have fun with the game.

I second the idea of playing missions of some sort. I think a lot of the casual players are fans of the setting more than they are fans of the mechanics. Missions are a great way to let them explore some more of the theme while giving you a breath of fresh air, away from tournament builds.

Run a Dengaroo list and teach them a real lesson. life is hard.

List building is part of the fun, so let them play what they want and offer pointers afterwards if they wish it.

Meanwhile, if you want to try something crazy, now's the time.

Better yet try some mixed faction stuff. That can be a blast.

I'd say don't be a real stickler for all of the game mechanics that come with a lot of experience. By this I mean be very forgiving when it comes to "missed opportunities" and try to avoid them when possible. It also means giving them a break when they are trying to plan their moves and not taking a maul to their hands just because they happen to have them over the board during the planning stage to help them visualize their maneuvers.

When it comes to list building I say try to keep it simple. Your very occasional player probably wants to feel like they are doing something so playing two squadrons of arc dodgers when they don't know how to dodge would get really ugly.

List building is part of the fun, so let them play what they want and offer pointers afterwards if they wish it.

Meanwhile, if you want to try something crazy, now's the time.

This is exactly what I would say. Besides being part of the fun, building your own list starts you with an immediate understanding of what the list is supposed to do. If you want to increase the list's strengths, maybe help with the list building. Since it is casual, using an online squad builder can make the process faster and allow access to cards they do not actually own (maybe it could inspire future purchases!)

Let the "real list" thing go--you are admitted playing with casual players who are not invested in Tier 1 play, mentally or financially. So, play for fun. Play something absolutely goofball, maybe with the expectation that you are in fact going to lose to an inexperienced player because the list is so stupid. You don't have to play to lose (throwing the game teaches nothing), but you don't have to play to win, either. If the newbie makes an obvious stupid mistake, point it out and let him fix it (at least once. . .maybe point it out again and don't let him fix it on further mistakes). It will be fun for you, too.

Then, once the game is over, talk up the strengths and weaknesses of both lists. This is great teaching moment for you. . .you have a concrete list (and a concrete game) to explain what went right or wrong for your opponent's game, and make suggestions on how to make the play and the list better. You might even agree to play revised versions of the same lists next month. Play, revise, repeat. Pretty soon, you may need to start playing a serious list once a month

1) Find a local game store and go there when you're looking for a challenge. Your friends that play once a month will never provide that, and cant really be expected to.

2) When you build lists for your friends give the solid, efficient squads that are relatively simple to use. Look at some Meta lists, especially ones from the early days of the game where there weren't so many pilots and upgrades. Then for yourself put together a fun but inefficient or unreliable list that you'd never run competitively. A "rube goldberg machine" list is a good starting point, they're fun collections of combos, that utterly fall apart if one piece is removed.

I say that Heroes of the Aturi Cluster will probably fill the needs of what you want to do. It's cooperative and pretty laid back. Your friends might find themselves wanting to play more often.

Use the scenarios that come in the big ship boxes if you still have them.

Have you just tried to let the wookiee win? and maybe buy your friend a pack of razors while you are at it.

Sounds like your friends just aren't that into X-wing.

They get 120 points, you get 100.

Then play your best and see if you can win.

keep. it. simple. On both sides. Don't try some 6 card combo that gives you 3 evades 2 foci, and a TL. It's no fun to lose when you don't even know what is going on. Keep the upgrades light and easy to utilize. casual is fun too!

Run a Dengaroo list and teach them a real lesson. life is hard.

Sounds like your friends just aren't that into X-wing.

Boy, you guys would be great ambassadors for the game.

The best way Imo if they want to make a list is to either let them create yours also, or make two and randomize, or even, have a randomizer squad builder build them both for you.
These are hilarious and fun options.

Its pretty much impossible to play a fair straight 100pt death match against someone who doesn't play often in this game. The experience makes you a stronger player by at least like 25 points. If not more in some cases. I could probably beat certain not-often friends of mine 100vs150

Build up some thematic lists as well, you can still have fun with the original trench run trio, or attack on DSII squads.

You can even put Palpatine in a sensor jammer, engine upgraded Kagi, with two royal guard pilots with ptl, autothrusters and mk ii engines (to help with stress relief). Here you can set the stage for a daring attack on the emperor as he transfers from his star destroyer to the DSII.

The battle of wherever Maz was is also something you can recreate, or starkiller base.

Its pretty much impossible to play a fair straight 100pt death match against someone who doesn't play often in this game. The experience makes you a stronger player by at least like 25 points. If not more in some cases. I could probably beat certain not-often friends of mine 100vs150

The "battle vs. insurmountable odds" could be a fun option.

I can think of three options

1.) Make the most bad ass list you can and crush your opponent. That way, after their soul obliterating defeat, they will never want to play you again. That'll free up some time for you to work on your tournament list.

2.) Play a scenario based game like the ones that come with the Epic ships, or HotAC. 100 point battle to the death isn't the only way to play.

3.)Challenge yourself by playing in a non-optimized list. Sometimes when I play with my son, I shuffle my pilot cards and deal three out at random (or more if needed), then do the same with upgrades, etc.

My podcast has a host of ideas to try out.

1) HotAC

2) Mario Kart X-wing

3) Epic campaigns

4) Dagobah Dave's Trench Run (recently revised)

The biggest draw is the lore for most casual players. Let them pick 2-3 ships and pilots they LOVE and help them make the best list they can. If they are RPG players, make even death matches feel like scenarios: They can always fly off the board to "save" their favorite pilot from a bad situation.

You play the GM and you can start by throwing 2-3 much weaker ships at them. If your friend crushes them, suddenly reinforcements show up and if the battle swings too far your way, the same can happen on his/her side (if they don't "flee the battle").

This also gives you the oppertunity to fly ships that don't always see play: Kfighters, HWK, Shuttle, bomber, Scyk... you get practice with these so when they do show up with their gimmick you know it or when they update something and they swing into favor you're ahead of the curve (I've been flying shuttles and defenders since they came out...now that palps a thing and the defenders have titles they're even better!).

When you get them to play, start with the "warm up" scenario and then play a standard game if they still have time or interest. Heck, after awhile you both might gravitate toward one style or another.

I love me some competitive play but I think I've had just as much fun or more in "gaming" mode.

Another vote for Heroes of the Arturi Cluster, teaches advanced interactions and flying while still being fun and challenging.

The first time I play against someone I'm trying to get into it I tend to run a handful of TIE Fighters escorting a bomber against a largely naked Chewie falcon (so they can see large ships and turrets), some naked A Wings (so they get some high agility/reposition antics) and a built up Advanced Sensors/PTL Keyan Farlander (so they get a taste of what a cool, multi-stage combo looks like, points efficiency be damned). This gives them a few options, a clear objective (don't let the Bomber schwack the Falcon!) and some flying experience. Season to taste.

Against very new players in general Z-95s are always a good choice. No repositioning means it's all about predicting flight paths (and helps you fly better as well). If you want to use Scum ones you can always add some cool flavor to make the game a little more interesting, just keep in mind that repositioning and high pilot skill tend to be the absolute bane of newbies.

And remember, just because a list is good or even great, doesn't mean it is great for everyone. Palp Aces may be a savage list, but it isn't exactly forgiving of mistakes, and combo-based lists like Dengaroo can come undone in a hurry after one bad play. Dash is great for new players, as are large piles of tough, hard-hitting, easy to use ships (Defenders, B Wings).