It's one of the primary justifications Magic uses to print absolute (constructed) useless chaff in their sets.
This causes for (lots of) undesirable cards to opened in packs which in turns drives up price of the desirable cards.
Opening crap in Magic that/s like a 1/5 for 5 mana/resource is an emberassment to a game (and the player base) that's been around for 2 decades.
I don't think that is the reason for "bad" cards in Magic. Because those cards are still bad in draft and then left unplayed. There is certainly an argument for having every draft option being roughly equal in power level or all generally strong (see most cubes people draft from). Do you have any evidence to support the claim that is the reason for cards like that? I have never heard that claim before and it doesn't seem to adequately explain those cards.
I don't think that is the reason for "bad" cards in Magic. Because those cards are still bad in draft and then left unplayed. There is certainly an argument for having every draft option being roughly equal in power level or all generally strong (see most cubes people draft from). Do you have any evidence to support the claim that is the reason for cards like that? I have never heard that claim before and it doesn't seem to adequately explain those cards.
Well except in draft you don't really have a choice but to play them. Or you draft them, open them and not play them and be forced to play with other second rate cards. End of the day those bad cards will be in someone's pool.
From a high level we can break down Wizard's decision to print cards into 4 sub groups.
1) print a bad card for limited (most likely)
2) print a bad card for constructed thinking it would be good (not a good argument for Wizards as it shows lack of understanding)
3) print a bad card without knowing (not a good argument for Wizards as it shows lack of trying)
4) print a bad card knowingly just to screw the player base and force more packs to be sold (not a good argument for Wizards)
Can't agree with this as multiple formats will appeal to a wider audience than strictly a pay-to-win constructed format (because with random legendaries in packs, this IS what constructed will be).
Even with bad cards I love magic drafts. My cube includes "bad" cards. Limited is the best way to play! There are many players in the star wars universe that will respond to more flavorful cards and dice. Not everything should be a tournament tier 1 level card. And if it was, we would have far fewer releases.
I would hope that any high level play would include both a limited AND constructed portion.
I don't think that is the reason for "bad" cards in Magic. Because those cards are still bad in draft and then left unplayed. There is certainly an argument for having every draft option being roughly equal in power level or all generally strong (see most cubes people draft from). Do you have any evidence to support the claim that is the reason for cards like that? I have never heard that claim before and it doesn't seem to adequately explain those cards.
Well except in draft you don't really have a choice but to play them. Or you draft them, open them and not play them and be forced to play with other second rate cards. End of the day those bad cards will be in someone's pool.
From a high level we can break down Wizard's decision to print cards into 4 sub groups.
1) print a bad card for limited (most likely)
2) print a bad card for constructed thinking it would be good (not a good argument for Wizards as it shows lack of understanding)
3) print a bad card without knowing (not a good argument for Wizards as it shows lack of trying)
4) print a bad card knowingly just to screw the player base and force more packs to be sold (not a good argument for Wizards)
Two issues.
First, why Wizards does or does not print bad cards has no bearing on FFG.
Second, Wizards stating they create bad cards on purpose for limited play doesn't mean it's true. As you said just outright stating they incidentally create useless cards makes them look bad, so they just say "oh we meant to do that" even if that isn't true.
FFG not uncommonly prints what are primarily unplayable cards or figures in their other games. I have a box of Star Wars LCG cards that I call the Island of Misfit Toys. There is no limited play for that game, thus no reason for FFG to purposefully create bad cards. Yet bad cards exist. The reality is FFG misses at times. For a number of reasons, none of which are purposeful.
It's one of the primary justifications Magic uses to print absolute (constructed) useless chaff in their sets.
This causes for (lots of) undesirable cards to opened in packs which in turns drives up price of the desirable cards.
Opening crap in Magic that/s like a 1/5 for 5 mana/resource is an emberassment to a game (and the player base) that's been around for 2 decades.
Your hangup with a particular format is hardly a reason to take it away from the thousands of other players who enjoy it. Now, if card design and balance is so straightforward, why haven't you designed and marketed 200+ card sets of your own?
I don't think that is the reason for "bad" cards in Magic. Because those cards are still bad in draft and then left unplayed. There is certainly an argument for having every draft option being roughly equal in power level or all generally strong (see most cubes people draft from). Do you have any evidence to support the claim that is the reason for cards like that? I have never heard that claim before and it doesn't seem to adequately explain those cards.
Well except in draft you don't really have a choice but to play them. Or you draft them, open them and not play them and be forced to play with other second rate cards. End of the day those bad cards will be in someone's pool.
From a high level we can break down Wizard's decision to print cards into 4 sub groups.
1) print a bad card for limited (most likely)
2) print a bad card for constructed thinking it would be good (not a good argument for Wizards as it shows lack of understanding)
3) print a bad card without knowing (not a good argument for Wizards as it shows lack of trying)
4) print a bad card knowingly just to screw the player base and force more packs to be sold (not a good argument for Wizards)
In a standard Magic draft, you open 3 boosters. A standard booster has 14 cards plus a land or checklist card for double sided cards (this generally shouldn't be counted as a playable card, there are some set-specific exceptions). That gives each player 42 cards at the end of the draft. From this point, players then build a minimum 40 card deck. Generally, this means including 23 of the 42 cards drafted and adding in 17 lands. Playing 23 of 42 cards means you can draft 19 cards you won't play with, or about 6 cards per pack. Considering 6 cards per pack won't be used and some of them will be drafted as "hate-drafts"; where you intentionally pick the best remaining card in the pack that you can't play (the one that would be the worst for your deck to have to deal with), you don't have to draft all that many "bad cards" and you really don't have to play with all of them. Will you be playing with a deck that looks very similar to a highly competitive standard format deck? No, but that doesn't mean your deck is full of bad cards. It's full of cards that are good for different reasons. Cards that are really only good in modern and not standard aren't "bad cards" because they are better suited for a different format. Same for cards that aren't that great in standard but are amazing in EDH, Pauper, 2 Headed Giant, Legacy, or any of the many other formats that exist.
How aware are you of the card design and play test process of Magic? You do know they have many of the games best players play testing those cards and they spend years in development to ensure they are optimally balanced, right? And that rarity plays a large role in the capabilities of a card (not because of draft at all, but because they recognize the average consumer will buy only so many packs and they want to ensure certain statistical likelihoods in relation to what cards they should end up having given those purchasing habits). So, I guess, really option 4 is closest to what they do, but still oversimplifies it and misses much of the rationale. Although, arguably point 1 is true for certain sets, like Conspiracy. And draft does play some role (not the sole role, but some role) in how cards in a given block are divided up among those sets.
Can't agree with this as multiple formats will appeal to a wider audience than strictly a pay-to-win constructed format (because with random legendaries in packs, this IS what constructed will be).
I want to focus on the differences with magic some more. Decks are 30 cards instead of 60. You can only have 2 copies of a card instead of 4 in magic. I would suspect that the common and uncommon cards which will probably make up 40% to 60% of most decks will be cheap and readily available.
While I suspect tournament decks will be cheaper than magic, it's still possible that building a tournament deck may be beyond what some are able or willing to spend. We will have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
The one reason I would argue against limited formats is the way the game is currently packaged. It is highly possible you could buy 15 boosters ($45) and not get enough characters or the right mix of characters to build a team. I suppose you could buy a starter and 5 boosters ($30) and build a playable team/deck, but after playing in 4 of those you'd have more starters than you need and would have spent enough money to be well on your way to a quality constructed deck. I think they will have to come up with something pretty creative to have a viable limited format given their current packaging model.
On a final note. I realize you never mentioned magic in your post, but for better or worse it Is the standard that other collectible games are compared to.
Edited by Starbane
The one reason I want to focus on the differences with magic some more. Decks are 30 cards instead of 60. You can only have 2 copies of a card instead of 4 in magic. I would suspect that the common and uncommon cards which will probably make up 40% to 60% of most decks will be cheap and readily available.
I would argue against limited formats is the way the game is currently packaged. It is highly possible you could buy 15 boosters ($45) and not get enough characters or the right mix of characters to build a team. I suppose you could buy a starter and 5 boosters ($30) and build a playable team/deck, but after playing in 4 of those you'd have more starters than you need and would have spent enough money to be well on your way to a quality constructed deck. I think they will have to come up with something pretty creative to have a viable limited format given their current packaging model.
There is also one other difference in Destiny compared to (most) other CCG, that a lot of people seem to miss. Uncommon cards in Destiny aren´t really that uncommon... I would rather call them diceless rares... They have almost the same ratio in a card pack than rares and there is one more uncommon card in the set then rares. Once more people are aware of that fact I expect the better uncommons to be worth as much as the better rares.
For your example of a booster draft with starters. You could always reuse your bought starters. I doubt a shop would force you to buy a new starter each time you wanted to participate in their draft tournament. That would be just stupid of the shop owner and would leave me to no longer shop at that place.
Edited by sharothThere is also one other difference in Destiny compared to (most) other CCG, that a lot of people seem to miss. Uncommon cards in Destiny aren´t really that uncommon... I would rather call them diceless rares... They have almost the same ratio in a card pack than rares and there is one more uncommon card in the set then rares. Once more people are aware of that fact I expect the better uncommons to be worth as much as the better rares.The one reason I want to focus on the differences with magic some more. Decks are 30 cards instead of 60. You can only have 2 copies of a card instead of 4 in magic. I would suspect that the common and uncommon cards which will probably make up 40% to 60% of most decks will be cheap and readily available.
I would argue against limited formats is the way the game is currently packaged. It is highly possible you could buy 15 boosters ($45) and not get enough characters or the right mix of characters to build a team. I suppose you could buy a starter and 5 boosters ($30) and build a playable team/deck, but after playing in 4 of those you'd have more starters than you need and would have spent enough money to be well on your way to a quality constructed deck. I think they will have to come up with something pretty creative to have a viable limited format given their current packaging model.
For your example of a booster draft with starters. You could always reuse your bought starters. I doubt a shop would force you to buy a new starter each time you wanted to participate in their draft tournament. That would be just stupid of the shop owner and would leave me to no longer shop at that place.
Allowing you to bring the contents of a starter and just buy boosters would save money, but do nothing to mitigate the problem that you might not get any usable dice out of your boosters while another player gets 5 payable dice. Having 2 distinct factions that can't be mixed is the cause of that problem. I suppose they could allow players use cards and dice from their boosters regardless of faction although there is no telling how well received that would be by the players. It goes beyond player preferences. What if FFG didn't balance the set for mixing factions.
Edited by StarbaneWhen I played magic: I loved limited formats. It kept the game interesting and NOT a money drag for constructed constantly. If there was a constructed format that was stale or I didn't like: limited was usually fine to keep me into the game.
Wizards DOES print cards that are better in limited than in constructed, but they don't intentionally print universally "bad" cards. Just cards that are better in one format than another. Yes, some cards bad for constructed ARE good in limited intentionally.
I would add you also get 36 uncommon cards from a booster box compared to 30 rares (and 6 legendary). I would think the uncommons will still accumulate in the secondary market faster than rares.
There is also one other difference in Destiny compared to (most) other CCG, that a lot of people seem to miss. Uncommon cards in Destiny aren´t really that uncommon... I would rather call them diceless rares... They have almost the same ratio in a card pack than rares and there is one more uncommon card in the set then rares. Once more people are aware of that fact I expect the better uncommons to be worth as much as the better rares.The one reason I want to focus on the differences with magic some more. Decks are 30 cards instead of 60. You can only have 2 copies of a card instead of 4 in magic. I would suspect that the common and uncommon cards which will probably make up 40% to 60% of most decks will be cheap and readily available.
I would argue against limited formats is the way the game is currently packaged. It is highly possible you could buy 15 boosters ($45) and not get enough characters or the right mix of characters to build a team. I suppose you could buy a starter and 5 boosters ($30) and build a playable team/deck, but after playing in 4 of those you'd have more starters than you need and would have spent enough money to be well on your way to a quality constructed deck. I think they will have to come up with something pretty creative to have a viable limited format given their current packaging model.
For your example of a booster draft with starters. You could always reuse your bought starters. I doubt a shop would force you to buy a new starter each time you wanted to participate in their draft tournament. That would be just stupid of the shop owner and would leave me to no longer shop at that place.
This might actually happen more due to the fact that you need 12-15 dice cards in your 15 card deck which are only rare and much less uncommons to build a good deck.