Since illegal maneuver rule update (reminder: now when somehow you reveal illegal maneuver you just do white 2s):

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

-after revealing [stop] turn yourself around

- since you revealed red maneuver while stressed its illegal > go 2s

If you have Kanan on board you basically can do Ryad.

Nice loophole FFG.

And yes Pivot Wing WILL trigger cause you have time to trigger abilities before illegal maneuver.

Interesting catch! I think the solution is a simple one, though: reword the errata such that the offending ship is "treated as having revealed a white-2-straight maneuver". Maybe skip the perform action step as well? Too harsh?

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

At which point you have two stress. Which means even with Kanan you're still left with one stress token and unable to do anything.

Interesting catch! I think the solution is a simple one, though: reword the errata such that the offending ship is "treated as having revealed a white-2-straight maneuver". Maybe skip the perform action step as well? Too harsh?

It would change nothing it is treated as "having revealed" anyway, so....and skipping actions dont change much also - most of the time when revealing illegal maneuver your just stressed and have no actions anyway.

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

At which point you have two stress. Which means even with Kanan you're still left with one stress token and unable to do anything.

Ee...no i dont? Cause i revealed illegal red maneuver that is changed to straight 2. You dont get stress just for revealing red maneuver you know, only for executing one.

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

At which point you have two stress. Which means even with Kanan you're still left with one stress token and unable to do anything.

You wouldn't pick up a second stress because you end up executing a white maneuver, not the red one that you revealed. Even if you did have 2 stress, just add Inspiring Recruit to the mix.

Interesting catch! I think the solution is a simple one, though: reword the errata such that the offending ship is "treated as having revealed a white-2-straight maneuver". Maybe skip the perform action step as well? Too harsh?

It would change nothing it is treated as "having revealed" anyway, so....and skipping actions dont change much also - most of the time when revealing illegal maneuver your just stressed and have no actions anyway.

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

At which point you have two stress. Which means even with Kanan you're still left with one stress token and unable to do anything.

Ee...no i dont? Cause i revealed illegal red maneuver that is changed to straight 2. You dont get stress just for revealing red maneuver you know, only for executing one.

It would change it, actually. Pivot Wing (Landing) triggers off of revealing a *stop* maneuver. If the ship is "treated as having revealed a *straight* maneuver", that would close this loophole.

You dont get stress just for revealing red maneuver you know, only for executing one.

True, I missed that.

Interesting catch! I think the solution is a simple one, though: reword the errata such that the offending ship is "treated as having revealed a white-2-straight maneuver". Maybe skip the perform action step as well? Too harsh?

It would change nothing it is treated as "having revealed" anyway, so....and skipping actions dont change much also - most of the time when revealing illegal maneuver your just stressed and have no actions anyway.

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

At which point you have two stress. Which means even with Kanan you're still left with one stress token and unable to do anything.

Ee...no i dont? Cause i revealed illegal red maneuver that is changed to straight 2. You dont get stress just for revealing red maneuver you know, only for executing one.

It would change it, actually. Pivot Wing (Landing) triggers off of revealing a *stop* maneuver. If the ship is "treated as having revealed a *straight* maneuver", that would close this loophole.

No it won't. Cause rules specify that you have a window to trigger stuff after revealing maneuver before its execution. And maneuver is changed to 2S when you try to execute it. Unless you want to remove that window but that would render whole bunch of cards totally useless.

Sure, I totally agree that there is a trigger window there. I'm suggesting that FFG could remove this loophole (if it proves to be an actual problem, of course) by just changing the trigger without touching the window that follows. They would also future-proof themselves by preventing these sort of shenanigans (taking advantage of something that triggers off of a specific maneuver, while actually executing a different one).

Something like: "If a ship reveals an illegal maneuver, it is treated as having revealed white-2-straight instead of the maneuver shown on the dial."

The "instead of" is the critical part.

Or they could have simply worded it like almost every other maneuver-based card out there: after executing a stop maneuver. You didnt executing a stop, you got interrupted by the illegal move FAQ and changed it to a 2fwd white. But you still revealed a stop, so the card is satisfied.

Talk about stupid. I'd be surprised it thats not FAQ'd upon release.

(if it proves to be an actual problem, of course)

That is the critical part...

Because it does seem to work that way, (it wouldn't be the first time the text on the preview was wrong)... You would have to set the pivot wing to landing in a previous turn, that means a whole round with one less defense die.

But even if you put Kanan on it, what you have is effectively a green 2k turn. At a cost of having to be stressed and -1 defense in the previous turn. So I'm not sure this will be on par with the Phantom Menace.

I'd be surprised it thats not FAQ'd upon release.

As I said I don't put too much stock in the text in previews, especially when it seems like it may be too good to be true.

Green 2k turn? thats a green 2rev peelout.

You rotate on reveal, which is before executing a maneuver. You turn, then notice you have an illegal move and do a white 2fwd. Which is "green" thanks to kanan.

A green 2k would indicate you rotated after the move, which would break timing windows. The uwing literally just went "NOPE!" to seeing Corran staring at him, punched it in reverse, peeled out to spin around, and took off the other way.

Sure, I totally agree that there is a trigger window there. I'm suggesting that FFG could remove this loophole (if it proves to be an actual problem, of course) by just changing the trigger without touching the window that follows. They would also future-proof themselves by preventing these sort of shenanigans (taking advantage of something that triggers off of a specific maneuver, while actually executing a different one).

Something like: "If a ship reveals an illegal maneuver, it is treated as having revealed white-2-straight instead of the maneuver shown on the dial."

The "instead of" is the critical part.

I see your point i just can't find wording that would prevent such sheanigans while not shutting down ex. Adrenaline Rush.

Cause in your wording you dont even have a chance to pop Adrenaline (well you do but before you do you already have your dial changed to 2s).

Or they could have simply worded it like almost every other maneuver-based card out there: after executing a stop maneuver. You didnt executing a stop, you got interrupted by the illegal move FAQ and changed it to a 2fwd white. But you still revealed a stop, so the card is satisfied.

Talk about stupid. I'd be surprised it thats not FAQ'd upon release.

I noticed that weird wording too. Almost like its on purpose...maybe it was easier then writing: "if you are stressed you may trigger this on 2s". Lol.

(if it proves to be an actual problem, of course)

That is the critical part...

Because it does seem to work that way, (it wouldn't be the first time the text on the preview was wrong)... You would have to set the pivot wing to landing in a previous turn, that means a whole round with one less defense die.

But even if you put Kanan on it, what you have is effectively a green 2k turn. At a cost of having to be stressed and -1 defense in the previous turn. So I'm not sure this will be on par with the Phantom Menace.

Well preview interactions were wrong i don't recall cards being wrong. Well i don't say its OP by any means - its just very solid option to be able to turn in place and stay there or do this reverse kturn.

My opinion on more cool head: it was on purpose. Why?

1)Wording on the card specifically allowing that.

2)Its not OP by any means.

I don't see this as game breaking, but it is kind of silly that you can truly benefit from an illegal move.

Well preview interactions were wrong i don't recall cards being wrong.

It's happened before, a few times in fact. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but there's a few cards in the squad builders that are based on the preview article and had the wrong text for the upgrade because the released version was different.

I don't see this as game breaking, but it is kind of silly that you can truly benefit from an illegal move.

It's not like this hasn't been the case before. There's a whole strategy to revealing reds whilst stressed on the Lambda.

It's possible that it was because of ships like the U-Wing that the rule was changed in the first place. That they want to put ways for ships to make creative use of the red maneuver while stressed mechanic.

They clearly changed the Stress Rule after designing the U-Wing. And it is a really possibility they just not tought about it.

This can easly be fixed by changing it to after you execute a stop maneuver instead of after you reveal a stop... would not be the first time they change a card right away...

It's possible that it was because of ships like the U-Wing that the rule was changed in the first place. That they want to put ways for ships to make creative use of the red maneuver while stressed mechanic.

Nah, it's almost certainly because of the possibility of stressing people between setting and revealing dials.

It's possible that it was because of ships like the U-Wing that the rule was changed in the first place. That they want to put ways for ships to make creative use of the red maneuver while stressed mechanic.

No, they changed it because of the Debris Ilicit Upgrade. You could give a stress to a ship during activation and totally screw the game of the other, by making a very idiot move for them.

Edit: They already said so...

The easiest way to word that ruling is:

You cannot reveal a red maneuver when you are stressed. If, due to any abilities or game state you would, instead execute [colorless] 2 straight maneuver (effectively, you do not reveal dial/maneuver this turn). You cannot resolve any abilities triggered when or after executing this maneuver.

You break any wrong buffs for the illegal maneuvers.

You avoid any future collisions with other maneuvers, as this is a unique situation in which you have to execute colorless maneuver.

Since illegal maneuver rule update (reminder: now when somehow you reveal illegal maneuver you just do white 2s):

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

-after revealing [stop] turn yourself around

- since you revealed red maneuver while stressed its illegal > go 2s

If you have Kanan on board you basically can do Ryad.

Nice loophole FFG.

And yes Pivot Wing WILL trigger cause you have time to trigger abilities before illegal maneuver.

I think this is actually entirely based on a flawed premise. "And yes Pivot Wing WILL trigger cause you have time to trigger abilities before illegal maneuver" is entirely hearsay not backed up by the FAQ that I can see:

Revealing Red Maneuvers

When a player reveals a red maneuver for a stressed ship, he has an opportunity to resolve card effects that change the maneuver’s difficulty or change the maneuver to a different one (Adrenaline Rush, Navigator, etc.). After resolving these effects, if the ship would still be executing a red maneuver, the owner moves the ship as if it were assigned a white [ 2] maneuver instead. The speed, bearing, and difficulty of this maneuver cannot be changed.

Looks like the steps are:

1) Assign a red STOP while stressed

2) Reveal dial <== illegal red maneuver while stressed

2a) May use card abilities to change it to a different maneuver or change the difficulty (none present)

2b) The ship is still prepared to do a red maneuver

2c) The ship's maneuver is replaced with a white 2 straight maneuver as though it were assigned that maneuver the whole time*

3) The title attempts to trigger but cannot as the ship is now assigned a white 2 straight maneuver

4) Enjoy the white 2 straight!

*We have seen from rulings in the past dealing with Hera/Navigator/Imperial Boba/Stay on Target that when you have replacement effects on 'reveal maneuver' whatever is applied actually replaces what was revealed. We can easily apply this to the white 2 straight from stress since it's applied in the same way.

The key part here is that a) the premise of 'you have time to trigger pivot wings' is not supported by the FAQ and b) the 2 straight text is "ship as if it were assigned a white [ 2] maneuver instead" meaning even if you disagree with claim a) it doesn't matter since the ship is assigned a white 2 straight instead of a red stop. I fully expect an FAQ to clarify this as clearly it has confused people, but they haven't made a loophole at all.

Since illegal maneuver rule update (reminder: now when somehow you reveal illegal maneuver you just do white 2s):

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

-after revealing [stop] turn yourself around

- since you revealed red maneuver while stressed its illegal > go 2s

If you have Kanan on board you basically can do Ryad.

Nice loophole FFG.

And yes Pivot Wing WILL trigger cause you have time to trigger abilities before illegal maneuver.

I think this is actually entirely based on a flawed premise. "And yes Pivot Wing WILL trigger cause you have time to trigger abilities before illegal maneuver" is entirely hearsay not backed up by the FAQ that I can see:

Revealing Red Maneuvers

When a player reveals a red maneuver for a stressed ship, he has an opportunity to resolve card effects that change the maneuver’s difficulty or change the maneuver to a different one (Adrenaline Rush, Navigator, etc.). After resolving these effects, if the ship would still be executing a red maneuver, the owner moves the ship as if it were assigned a white [ 2] maneuver instead. The speed, bearing, and difficulty of this maneuver cannot be changed.

Looks like the steps are:

1) Assign a red STOP while stressed

2) Reveal dial <== illegal red maneuver while stressed

2a) May use card abilities to change it to a different maneuver or change the difficulty (none present)

2b) The ship is still prepared to do a red maneuver

2c) The ship's maneuver is replaced with a white 2 straight maneuver as though it were assigned that maneuver the whole time*

3) The title attempts to trigger but cannot as the ship is now assigned a white 2 straight maneuver

4) Enjoy the white 2 straight!

*We have seen from rulings in the past dealing with Hera/Navigator/Imperial Boba/Stay on Target that when you have replacement effects on 'reveal maneuver' whatever is applied actually replaces what was revealed. We can easily apply this to the white 2 straight from stress since it's applied in the same way.

The key part here is that a) the premise of 'you have time to trigger pivot wings' is not supported by the FAQ and b) the 2 straight text is "ship as if it were assigned a white [ 2] maneuver instead" meaning even if you disagree with claim a) it doesn't matter since the ship is assigned a white 2 straight instead of a red stop. I fully expect an FAQ to clarify this as clearly it has confused people, but they haven't made a loophole at all.

^red bolded

The problem is that revealing a maneuver is not the same thing as executing it. And the way i see it FAQ applies when you try to execute this red illegal maneuver - not in an instant when you reveal it.

Like you said - we have window to trigger stuff before executing illegal maneuver. The game have no idea at this point what we want to do and if it will change maneuver difficulty, it just gives us the window. Assumption that we can only use cards directly affecting the maneuver is like a game starts to foretell the future to see if will will trigger someting that makes this maneuver legal. On reveal is on reveal - execution starts after resolving all on reveals.

Reveal a maneuver>trigger stuff that triggers on reveal>begin maneuver execution>now instantly illegal maneuver rule triggers.

Green part is also a key: as if it were assigned, still nothing about revealing.

Since illegal maneuver rule update (reminder: now when somehow you reveal illegal maneuver you just do white 2s):

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

-after revealing [stop] turn yourself around

- since you revealed red maneuver while stressed its illegal > go 2s

If you have Kanan on board you basically can do Ryad.

Nice loophole FFG.

And yes Pivot Wing WILL trigger cause you have time to trigger abilities before illegal maneuver.

I think this is actually entirely based on a flawed premise. "And yes Pivot Wing WILL trigger cause you have time to trigger abilities before illegal maneuver" is entirely hearsay not backed up by the FAQ that I can see:

Revealing Red Maneuvers

When a player reveals a red maneuver for a stressed ship, he has an opportunity to resolve card effects that change the maneuver’s difficulty or change the maneuver to a different one (Adrenaline Rush, Navigator, etc.). After resolving these effects, if the ship would still be executing a red maneuver, the owner moves the ship as if it were assigned a white [ 2] maneuver instead. The speed, bearing, and difficulty of this maneuver cannot be changed.

Looks like the steps are:

1) Assign a red STOP while stressed

2) Reveal dial <== illegal red maneuver while stressed

2a) May use card abilities to change it to a different maneuver or change the difficulty (none present)

2b) The ship is still prepared to do a red maneuver

2c) The ship's maneuver is replaced with a white 2 straight maneuver as though it were assigned that maneuver the whole time*

3) The title attempts to trigger but cannot as the ship is now assigned a white 2 straight maneuver

4) Enjoy the white 2 straight!

*We have seen from rulings in the past dealing with Hera/Navigator/Imperial Boba/Stay on Target that when you have replacement effects on 'reveal maneuver' whatever is applied actually replaces what was revealed. We can easily apply this to the white 2 straight from stress since it's applied in the same way.

The key part here is that a) the premise of 'you have time to trigger pivot wings' is not supported by the FAQ and b) the 2 straight text is "ship as if it were assigned a white [ 2] maneuver instead" meaning even if you disagree with claim a) it doesn't matter since the ship is assigned a white 2 straight instead of a red stop. I fully expect an FAQ to clarify this as clearly it has confused people, but they haven't made a loophole at all.

^red bolded

The problem is that revealing a maneuver is not the same thing as executing it. And the way i see it FAQ applies when you try to execute this red illegal maneuver - not in an instant when you reveal it.

Like you said - we have window to trigger stuff before executing illegal maneuver. The game have no idea at this point what we want to do and if it will change maneuver difficulty, it just gives us the window. Assumption that we can only use cards directly affecting the maneuver is like a game starts to foretell the future to see if will will trigger someting that makes this maneuver legal. On reveal is on reveal - execution starts after resolving all on reveals.

Reveal a maneuver>trigger stuff that triggers on reveal>begin maneuver execution>now instantly illegal maneuver rule triggers.

Green part is also a key: as if it were assigned, still nothing about revealing.

But the rules are limiting what abilities are allowed - orange above. When reveal a red maneuver for stressed ship, you do not have freedom to trigger whatever abilities you would like to (that falls into this time window). You are limited to abilities that may change the speed, bearing, color of the maneuver. After resolving this effects if it is still red, you have to continue as if you have had assigned white 2 straight - this is the key, as the wording is not clear (this time it refers to executing, while the whole matter was about revealing...). Anyway, we have to assume that if we are proceeding as it was assigned a certain maneuver then he had to "reveal" what was assigned.

Since illegal maneuver rule update (reminder: now when somehow you reveal illegal maneuver you just do white 2s):

-get stressed somehow on uwing.

-pop the wings to landing

-reveal [stop]

-after revealing [stop] turn yourself around

- since you revealed red maneuver while stressed its illegal > go 2s

If you have Kanan on board you basically can do Ryad.

Nice loophole FFG.

And yes Pivot Wing WILL trigger cause you have time to trigger abilities before illegal maneuver.

I think this is actually entirely based on a flawed premise. "And yes Pivot Wing WILL trigger cause you have time to trigger abilities before illegal maneuver" is entirely hearsay not backed up by the FAQ that I can see:

Revealing Red Maneuvers

When a player reveals a red maneuver for a stressed ship, he has an opportunity to resolve card effects that change the maneuver’s difficulty or change the maneuver to a different one (Adrenaline Rush, Navigator, etc.). After resolving these effects, if the ship would still be executing a red maneuver, the owner moves the ship as if it were assigned a white [ 2] maneuver instead. The speed, bearing, and difficulty of this maneuver cannot be changed.

Looks like the steps are:

1) Assign a red STOP while stressed

2) Reveal dial <== illegal red maneuver while stressed

2a) May use card abilities to change it to a different maneuver or change the difficulty (none present)

2b) The ship is still prepared to do a red maneuver

2c) The ship's maneuver is replaced with a white 2 straight maneuver as though it were assigned that maneuver the whole time*

3) The title attempts to trigger but cannot as the ship is now assigned a white 2 straight maneuver

4) Enjoy the white 2 straight!

*We have seen from rulings in the past dealing with Hera/Navigator/Imperial Boba/Stay on Target that when you have replacement effects on 'reveal maneuver' whatever is applied actually replaces what was revealed. We can easily apply this to the white 2 straight from stress since it's applied in the same way.

The key part here is that a) the premise of 'you have time to trigger pivot wings' is not supported by the FAQ and b) the 2 straight text is "ship as if it were assigned a white [ 2] maneuver instead" meaning even if you disagree with claim a) it doesn't matter since the ship is assigned a white 2 straight instead of a red stop. I fully expect an FAQ to clarify this as clearly it has confused people, but they haven't made a loophole at all.

^red bolded

The problem is that revealing a maneuver is not the same thing as executing it. And the way i see it FAQ applies when you try to execute this red illegal maneuver - not in an instant when you reveal it.

Like you said - we have window to trigger stuff before executing illegal maneuver. The game have no idea at this point what we want to do and if it will change maneuver difficulty, it just gives us the window. Assumption that we can only use cards directly affecting the maneuver is like a game starts to foretell the future to see if will will trigger someting that makes this maneuver legal. On reveal is on reveal - execution starts after resolving all on reveals.

Reveal a maneuver>trigger stuff that triggers on reveal>begin maneuver execution>now instantly illegal maneuver rule triggers.

Green part is also a key: as if it were assigned, still nothing about revealing.

But the rules are limiting what abilities are allowed - orange above. When reveal a red maneuver for stressed ship, you do not have freedom to trigger whatever abilities you would like to (that falls into this time window). You are limited to abilities that may change the speed, bearing, color of the maneuver. After resolving this effects if it is still red, you have to continue as if you have had assigned white 2 straight - this is the key, as the wording is not clear (this time it refers to executing, while the whole matter was about revealing...). Anyway, we have to assume that if we are proceeding as it was assigned a certain maneuver then he had to "reveal" what was assigned.

Yea but this way we make the game do some voodoo shamanism to peek into future and determine if somehow the ability we resolve will change the maneuver.

Example scenario (out of the blue, no time to look any real combo up now) :

Ship A starts turn stressed and reveals a red maneuver. It has been assigned a focus from another ship earlier. It is equipped with Card 1 and Card 2.

Card 1: After you reveal the maneuver you may remove a focus from your ship to perform free action. >(this would make a nice card BTW!)

Card 2: Action: you may treat red maneuvers as white for this round.

So now according to that scenario we are unable to trigger Card 1 as it does not correspond with maneuvers directly? Or game mechanics goes mmmmmmGURUMEDITATIONmmmmm and foresee in the future that we wanna trigger card1 to change a maneuver with card2 ?

Both interpretations are plain stupid.

For me that faq wording is just to ensure players that they indeed can reveal reds if they have means to change them after revealing.