First I dont want to be a comptive player which I call being WAAC jerk player.

But I trying to understand how and why combo's work and only why you can only use x combos.

Now with my list I dont see why I want to stress fel as I find stress not a good thing as limits what you can do

And I like abilities that add more attack dice as its hard to kill stuff

I'll echo some many of the others and say there is a huge difference between being a competitive and being a WAAC jerk. To be completely honest the WAAC jerk may not be the least bit competitive, although net-decking to find what should be competitive builds often helps terrible squad building, but has this attitude that is a pain to play against.

If you want to understand how/why combos work you need look no further than Fel and PtL. The Interceptor natively has four very good options when it comes to Actions but has the "problem" that you can only take one of those on any given turn. Where PtL combos well is that it then lets you take a SECOND Action. Because the TIE Interceptor has a lot of green maneuvers on its dial it is usually very easy to ditch that Stress. Maybe it makes your maneuvers a little more predictable but when you could use Boost and Barrel Roll to reposition after your maneuver it's harder for your opponent to capitalize on that predictability unless they actually manage to block you; if you do happen to get blocked you still lose the Stress and because you skip your Perform Action step probably aren't using PtL and gaining extra Stress so you've got a lot more options next turn. Now if you can see why Interceptors and the Stress inducing PtL often go together it should be easy to see why Fel fits into THAT combo so well as his ability gives you a token when gaining Stress.

If you are using Fel with PtL and getting a token stack but not using that stack of tokens then Fel is probably doing extremely well. In the full turtle mode he'd be getting an Evade and two Focus tokens. Depending on how many attacks he is going to face there is a high likelihood that one Focus may be used; statistically having dice modifiers with 3 dice is often as good as getting an extra die but no modifiers. With the Attack out of the way Fel can then use those other tokens to defend himself from attacks and if he doesn't use them all then either the dice completely failed you or you've already rolled well enough that you didn't need them this time.

Generally Stress should be seen as a bad thing to have. IF you are going for an Interceptor build that doesn't use Stress then giving up the point or two of PS and cost to use Turr or Jax instead of Fel as both of those have abilities that can be very useful.

First I dont want to be a comptive player which I call being WAAC jerk player.

But I trying to understand how and why combo's work and only why you can only use x combos.

Now with my list I dont see why I want to stress fel as I find stress not a good thing as limits what you can do

And I like abilities that add more attack dice as its hard to kill stuff

In my honest opinion there are different types of competitive players. Those that are WAAC. Those are the ones that try to break the rules to get the win. Then there are competitive players that use the rules the best to their abilities. I have never seen the first while playing Xwing. The game is pretty well balanced and there is little to no need to try and break the rules to win. But the Xwing players do use the rules giving out to us to get the win. For example. Giving stress to Soontir. Because well he is designed to get stress to get a free focus. That free focus can be the difference of him living or dying. His ship is also designed to arc dodge. Again using the rules set out, not breaking them.

Ok let's try this. You add a hull upgrade to Soontir. Is that being competitive? Hell is adding any upgrade to a ship being competitive? Well if you think about it, it is. You are trying to make your pilot survive longer. which to me is a bit competitive. Are you breaking rules or even bending them? No, you are just trying to make Soontir more survivable. Well you can also do that by arc dodging, giving him stress and using his ability to his full effectiveness.

Ultimately it is your choice to play how you want. But I don't know anyone that plays to lose. Everyone is a little bit competitive in some way or the other. It's your choice how far you take that competitiveness. Whether it's a WAAC player or someone that plays to the best of their ability and tries to win.

I guess to me competitive play and WAAC goes hand and hand I think 40k really hurt my idea of gameing and how to have fun.

I guess I miss understanding how fel pilot ability works as I see it as more trouble then it worth. And ships are just hard to kill I was playing my x wings against tie swarm my brother likes and it takes for ever kill tie fighters even at range one

I guess to me competitive play and WAAC goes hand and hand I think 40k really hurt my idea of gameing and how to have fun.

You must unlearn what you have learned.

Furthermore, where are you located? It might be worth seeing if you can tee up some games with people on the forum from the same area who could take you through some of the finer points of the game in terms of whats been described in this thread.

In Minnesota 3hrs north of city's

In Minnesota 3hrs north of city's

That sounds like territory close to the home offices of FFG.

Three Hours North of the Twin Cities can be a lot of area. I'm thinking south of Duluth. How far out is St. Cloud?

I believe here is a place in Lindstrom that holds regular games.

Am 45 miles from st cloud but now one play's iin groups around there and I not driving to city's for one game

Okay, Fel is simple. The Interceptor has an amazing dial with green turns. That allows you to worry a lot less about stress than other ships have to. Which means his ability can be used every single turn, adding up troughout the game. Since focus can be used defensively and Soontir is a 3 hull ship that costs 30+ points it is pretty much mandatory so he doesn't fold like a piece of paper.

But I trying to understand how and why combo's work and only why you can only use x combos.

Now with my list I dont see why I want to stress fel as I find stress not a good thing as limits what you can do

And I like abilities that add more attack dice as its hard to kill stuff

Getting the focus token does help kill stuff, though - rolling your attack dice (or defence dice) with a focus token up your sleeve is generally as good as having an extra die. I know sometimes you'll roll no eyeball results - but sometimes you'll roll three. Over time, it averages out.

Equally, having an evade token - assuming you can evade every turn - is essentially a regenerating shield.

In terms of a guide to understanding pilot abilities - there is no rule that you can only use X with Y. but some things are better than others because they 'feed off one another'. It's not so much a case of 'where do combos come from' as 'what are the options and what are the tradeoffs with each one'.

Soontir/Push The Limit is a good example. Follow the thought process:

• Soontir's ability gives you a focus when he becomes stressed.
• The TIE intereceptor's dial is really good (hard green speed 2 turns) meaning you can stress yourself every turn and then shed the stress every turn without it being too much of a problem. You can't koiogan turn, but don't need to - a hard turn plus a boost is pretty much coming around 180^o anyway, and you don't want to fly a paper-thin interceptor in straight lines, stressed or not. So whilst the focus token may not be critical, it's a freebie that comes with a cost we don't mind paying.
• If we can stress ourselves every turn, then 'good' combinations for elite pilot talent will be those which cause stress (because their effects will be cheaper, or better, as a result - the stress token is part of the cost).
• There are several elite pilot talents which stress the pilot:
  • Push The Limit - gives you an extra action
  • Opportunist - lets you roll an extra attack die if the target has no focus/evade tokens
  • Elusiveness - forces an opponent to reroll an attack die
  • Rage - gives you a focus token and rerolls to hit in exchange for two stress tokens
  • Daredevil - gives you a 90^o turn "boost", even if you can't boost
  • Expert Handling - lets you barrel roll and shed a target lock
• So.....which ones fit Fel best?
  • Push The Limit - you have a really great action bar - boost and barrel roll (especially with a free focus) - this way you can get three actions, two of which can be used to 'jiggle' your final position a bit at a high pilot skill, which is the best defensive measure in the game - not being in arc to get shot at.
  • Opportunist - Not by any means a 'bad' choice - 4 attack dice (5 at range 1!) hurts, especially since you get a free focus token to spend on the shot to boot. Problems? Well, Fel shoots at pilot skill 9 - usually first - so since he's the first person to shoot at the target, odds are it will still have its focus token if it took a focus action.
  • Elusiveness - forcing an opponent to reroll a dice.....you've got a 50% chance of turning a hit into not-a-hit. Only 25% chance if they've got a focus token. Saving half a point of damage a turn isn't awful, but using push the limit above and spending the free action on an evade token would have blocked a hit automatically - making it more effective and more reliable to boot.
  • Rage - rerolls and focus make for a nasty, nasty shot. The problem? Two stress means that (barring even more convoluted combinations) you're not getting actions next turn. And a TIE interceptor which is stuck on its green dial and can't boost or barrel roll out of arc, and can't get focus/evade tokens to turtle up, is probably going to die. Fel is a very expensive pilot, and you can't afford to consider him a kamikaze. Again - the effect can be duplicated with push the limit - if you took a targeting computer modification, then push the limit to target lock, you get a stress token, focus token and rerolls to hit - which, unlike Rage, stick around until you use them.
  • Daredevil - this one....isn't awful. Push The Limit would let you use your free action to boost then barrel roll, which almost but doesn't quite duplicate this effect. Daredevil is much less flexible than Push The Limit (you can't use it to improve your shooting or defence dice) but it is an amazing manoeuvre ability.
  • Expert Handling - since you have barrel roll.....you don't get a stress token from this. And with a manoeuvrable, high pilot skill ship, shedding target locks shouldn't really be your big priority.

Of the above list, this is why Fel generally ends up with Push The Limit - it's the most flexible.

If you want him to still be really shooty, consider a targeting computer - push the limit, and you can evade, then target lock, then focus anyway - giving you the reroll you would have got from predator (but better, because you can reroll all your dice, and keep the target lock to next turn if you don't spend it)

By comparison, Talonbane Cobra with Predator and Engine Upgrade is sensible. Talonbane is also expensive and high pilot skill - so justifies spending points upgrading him - his pilot ability is all about controlling range - so engine upgrade, or vectored thrusters, inertial dampers, or cloaking device (all of which give him the repositioning ability he needs) - are all good choices.

Using all of them needs his action (except inertial dampers, which gives you stress so might as well be an action to use for this argument). So he wants to fettle his attack and defence dice without using his action - so elite talents like predator or lone wolf are good, giving rerolls without taking up his only action.

I guess I just have a hard time see how cards upgraded cards and pilot go together. Like why no one uses middle our torpedoes

Heck I tried that stress hog think and dont get how it works our is a good thing

To be honest mate, I'm starting to wonder your understanding of the rules is correct if you can't understand how upgrades work alongside pilot abilities, or things like the benefits of a Stresshog.

OK explain then how stresshog works and why it's good to be stressing my self

OK explain then how stresshog works and why it's good to be stressing my self

You don't need to do action with the stress hog. (Ywing: stressbot, BTL title, TLT (Twin Laser Turret)) Him getting stress really isn't that big of a deal because he is support for your other ships. Stopping an arc dodger from dodging arcs make them easier to kill. Ships that can't do actions tend to get damaged easier.

Edit: Fixed.

OK explain then how stresshog works and why it's good to be stressing my self

The stress hog is about stressing ships that don't want to be stressed. Example would be an arc dodger, someone with PTL or anyone that wants to do actions really.

You don't need to do action with the stress hog. (Ywing: stressbot, BTL title.) him getting stress really isn't that big of a deal because he is support for your other ships. Stopping an arc dodger from dodging arcs make them easier to kill. Ships that can't do actions tend to get damaged easier.

Don't forget the TLT! For that sweet double stress,s triple attack.

But yes, you've summed it up perfectly. The Stresshog is there to shut down the actions and abilities of your opponent. A Fel who can't PTL is a tokenless (read: dead) Fel. A Manaroo who can't PTL is a Manaroo who isn't passing TLs and Focus to her squad mates.

But if you're playing without upgrades, combos, or actions - and - you're typical flying style is to joust and K-turn, I can see why you wouldn't see the benefits of a Stresshog in your squad, as it can't K-Turn and would take a few turns to get back into the action.

OK explain then how stresshog works and why it's good to be stressing my self

The stress hog is about stressing ships that don't want to be stressed. Example would be an arc dodger, someone with PTL or anyone that wants to do actions really.

You don't need to do action with the stress hog. (Ywing: stressbot, BTL title.) him getting stress really isn't that big of a deal because he is support for your other ships. Stopping an arc dodger from dodging arcs make them easier to kill. Ships that can't do actions tend to get damaged easier.

Don't forget the TLT! For that sweet double stress,s triple attack.

But yes, you've summed it up perfectly. The Stresshog is there to shut down the actions and abilities of your opponent. A Fel who can't PTL is a tokenless (read: dead) Fel. A Manaroo who can't PTL is a Manaroo who isn't passing TLs and Focus to her squad mates.

But if you're playing without upgrades, combos, or actions - and - you're typical flying style is to joust and K-turn, I can see why you wouldn't see the benefits of a Stresshog in your squad, as it can't K-Turn and would take a few turns to get back into the action.

I knew I was brain farting on something.

Stressbot has been on Nein Numb with Snap Shot as of late for me. So good.

I guess I see doing that as playing unfair and being a **** if I run stuff that takes my opposition ships out of play with out them geting to play

I guess I see doing that as playing unfair and being a ****

Then the problem is your mentality and how you look at the game.

I guess I see doing that as playing unfair and being a **** if I run stuff that takes my opposition ships out of play with out them geting to play

I see where you're coming from. The first time you use that on an unsuspecting opponent, they are going to have a bad time. But over a few games, they'll start to learn how to play around it. They'll see that they have to avoid that Y-wing's front arc, so they'll start selecting different maneuvers that take them around your forces. Suddenly, you're not playing a jousting game anymore. Maneuvering becomes very important. You and your opponent have to guess where each opposing ship will be each round instead of "knowing" it will be flying straight toward your ships or turning around. After several games like this, you'll see games where your opponent didn't get to use a certain ship because it got locked down by stress, and you'll see other games where your stress hog was wasted points because your opponent outmaneuvered it. In the end, it all balances out.

I think you and your brother may be putting too much effort into making each and every game equal and "fair." You win some, you lose some. That's part of playing X-Wing. Try new things and see how they go. Fly with different strategies to see what happens. Here's a challenge for you: in your next game, take the same ships you usually take but don't joust. Try flying around the board just to see what your opponent does. See if you can break up his formation and then focus fire on a single ship. Your opponent may not like you focusing fire at first, but once you both start doing it, it isn't unfair anymore.

I guess I see doing that as playing unfair and being a **** if I run stuff that takes my opposition ships out of play with out them geting to play

So if you kill your opponent ship very early it would also be unfair?

So your opponent uses tactics and Combos to keep his ships alive and kill yours faster.

So you do the same.

-> Everybody gets a more exciting game.

There is nothing unfair about tactics and Combos. They're there to be used and you pay the points for exactly doing so.

Newguy1984 do you still have the box your ships came in?

Also do you have an ebay account?

You might just not be suited for games that pit players against each other then. Which is no problem, of course, there is plenty of cooperative games out there! You can even turn X-Wing into one with the fan made Heros of the Aturi Cluster, which I haven't played myself, but have heard great things about from people I trust on that front, so I wholeheartedly recommend it.

You can even turn X-Wing into one with the fan made Heros of the Aturi Cluster

Given the OP's comment I think HotAC would be ideal for him. It's a great way to play X-Wing and would seem to fit better into his idea of what is fair.

Guys, don't be unpleasant. We've all not got something that seems obvious to others before.

OK explain then how stresshog works and why it's good to be stressing my self

The short answer is that in isolation stressing your ship is bad. Stress reduces the maneuvers your ship can perform and stops you performing actions.

Yet you're already choosing to stress your ships whenever you execute a red maneuver. If stress is a bad thing why would you ever execute a red maneuver?

The answer is because the benefit of performing that K-turn (getting into a good position) outweighs the cost of stress: it's a tradeoff. The same is true of stress-inducing upgrades: you judge if using the upgrade's ability is worth the price of stressing your ship. Understanding tradeoffs is key to many games: you can't have everything so you need to choose what is most valuable to you.

Take Push The Limit: it gives you two actions and stresses your ship. If you use PTL then you're deciding that a second action is worth having to deal with the stress token: you'll either have to perform a green move or not get an action next round.

This is why PTL is very ship dependent. The B-wing has very limited green moves so PTL would be a fairly bad idea on it: the second action isn't worth limiting it to its very small and non-versatile green moves. By contrast the TIE interceptor has a wide variety of green moves and as a result loses very little from only flying on its greens: the tradeoff is worth it. Thanks to the TIE interceptor's reposition actions it actually becomes more maneuverable as it can boost and barrel roll on the same turn and the extra actions will help it both hit harder and stay alive longer. Yes, it can't use its white moves or its K-turns but that doesn't matter too much to it: it's a small price for a large benefit.

The same is true of the R3-A2 equipped BTL-A4 Y-wing aka the "Stresshog." BTL-A4 is a 0 point cost title for the Y-wing that removes its ability to shoot outside its firing arc but allows it to fire both its primary and its turret in the same round: it essentially locks the turret forward and makes the primary and turret fire together. It's another example of a tradeoff card: you've lost your turret's expanded firing arc but you've gained additional firepower.

R3-A2 is an astromech that allows you to receive a stress token to deal the enemy a stress token. With BTL-A4's ability to fire twice this allows it to deal two stress tokens to itself to deal two stress tokens to an enemy: both ships get stacked up with stress and can't perform actions or red moves.

You'd be forgiven for thinking that you've gained nothing here: their ship is stressed but so its yours. However, your ship is a fairly cheap Y-wing. Their ship could be a very expensive ace pilot: once stressed it can't perform actions until it clears that stress which weakens it significantly. Furthermore, if your Y-wing survives it can continue to stress other ships. It'll stack more stress on itself but two stress tokens and four have very little difference: it's never going to clear them so it can build that stack as high as it wants.

I guess I really dont see it because a y wing should all ready be making 2 attacks one for turret and one for ship but nope you can't do that

That a house rule me and my brother been toying with is if a ship has a primary attack and get another attack from missile's turret cannon etc it should be able to do both attack's

I guess I really dont see it because a y wing should all ready be making 2 attacks one for turret and one for ship but nope you can't do that

That a house rule me and my brother been toying with is if a ship has a primary attack and get another attack from missile's turret cannon etc it should be able to do both attack's