Well I'm surprised most of you didn't realize this was a troll from the 3rd post. Let it die.

It could be true. The low post count may even support that but why just make an account to put up one questionable question?

Although the poor sentence structure, terrible spelling, and poor grammar make me wonder if it's just someone who communicates very poorly. The apparent thought that all pieces should play the same way is a bit shocking however.

Well, even if this was all a put-on, I am glad to have followed this thread and come to find that our gaming community IS very helpful, welcoming and positive overall.

High fives to all.

Well I'm surprised most of you didn't realize this was a troll from the 3rd post. Let it die.

It could be true. The low post count may even support that but why just make an account to put up one questionable question?

Although the poor sentence structure, terrible spelling, and poor grammar make me wonder if it's just someone who communicates very poorly. The apparent thought that all pieces should play the same way is a bit shocking however.

Almost reminds me of that one troll who stalked the forums a while back. Can't remember his name but he hated WonderWAAAGH with a passion.

Well I'm surprised most of you didn't realize this was a troll from the 3rd post. Let it die.

It could be true. The low post count may even support that but why just make an account to put up one questionable question?

Although the poor sentence structure, terrible spelling, and poor grammar make me wonder if it's just someone who communicates very poorly. The apparent thought that all pieces should play the same way is a bit shocking however.

I was trying to understand the reason people using x card combo with each ship and why. Also why people where playing so different on battle reports instead of just going right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship because i feel that unfair and just being jerks

But I have lot of bad stuff in my head from my 40k days and I dont want this game to be like that

I was trying to understand the reason people using x card combo with each ship and why. Also why people where playing so different on battle reports instead of just going right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship because i feel that unfair and just being jerks

Because Tie Defenders do that better than anyone else. Tie defenders have weaknesses, but when it comes to flying at each other and trading shots, Tie Defenders have no equal. They have the highest common agility to avoid taking damage, they can flat out ignore the first point of damage they take each round they have good guns, lots of health, and the ability to turn around and still get tokens.

To beat defenders you HAVE to play "dirty".

Also yes I feel all ships play same as I not very good at understanding the different ways to play them our how they should be played

I was trying to understand the reason people using x card combo with each ship and why. Also why people where playing so different on battle reports instead of just going right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship because i feel that unfair and just being jerks

But I have lot of bad stuff in my head from my 40k days and I dont want this game to be like that

The game is deeper than you seem to realize.

Not all ships are the same, regardless of what you feel.

Imagine a fight between Conan the Barbarian, Jack Sparrow from Pirates of the Caribbean, Bruce Lee, and MacGyver.

Think calmly and try to picture how each of them would deal with the fight.

Perhaps Conan would throw himself into it by just facing their opponents and running towards them with a huge weapon.

But certainly, Bruce Lee would fight in a totally different way, awaiting for his opponent to come towards them and using his bare hands to let the other's own weight and stregth do most of the work.

MacGyver would not even confront them physically, and instead would lay traps and use gadgets to defeat them.

And Jack Sparrow... well... we can't even imagine what he would do! He would probably sneak past them, climb a palm tree, jump onto a basket, fall on a fruit stand, then side with them, and finally betray them with a backstab.

Well, ships in this game are basically like that. A B-wing goes full straight onto the fight, while a TIE Interceptor boosts, barrel rolls and moves away from their enemies firing arc until they have a good shot themselves, then a K-wing moves around laying bombs and mines, not using its primary weapons like at all... and a TIE Phantom hides, moves around the board, and you don't know where they are going to be next.

If you want to play like "Everyone does like Conan", then that is your choice. But that is a dumbed-down version of the game. And it won't be a fair fight.

Also why people where playing so different on battle reports instead of just going right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship because i feel that unfair and just being jerks

Because it makes the game more interesting. Going head-to-head all the time reduces the game to little more than a dice-off, and it can be so much deeper than that. There can be opportunities to flank, to draw your opponent into bad positions, to outmaneuver and isolate ships. That's what makes the game exciting, not shoot, K-turn, shoot, K-turn.

Well I'm surprised most of you didn't realize this was a troll from the 3rd post. Let it die.

It could be true. The low post count may even support that but why just make an account to put up one questionable question?

Although the poor sentence structure, terrible spelling, and poor grammar make me wonder if it's just someone who communicates very poorly. The apparent thought that all pieces should play the same way is a bit shocking however.

Sorry my typing skills suck and not very good at writing. And I have a hard time trying to get my point our message across to people and am come off trollish . Also yes I feel all ships play same as I not very good at understanding the different ways to play them our how they should be played

I was trying to understand the reason people using x card combo with each ship and why. Also why people where playing so different on battle reports instead of just going right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship because i feel that unfair and just being jerks

But I have lot of bad stuff in my head from my 40k days and I dont want this game to be like that

The reason why people use "x card combo with each ship" is because the card combo is to make the ship better in some way.

The reason why people do not just go right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship is because many ships fly differently than one another and can not effectively fight that way and will more than likely lose constantly trying to go head to head. It is a higher level of strategy to try to avoid an opponent's firing arc so your ships do not get shot at while at the same time your ships are able to shoot at the opponent.

As for one ship on one ship that is also not normally a effective tactic and can not always be done since not every list will have the same amount of ships. Since every ship in the game is the same effective fire power (excluding crit cards) until they are at zero health. It is another type of strategy to focus fire on a single ship to try and bring it down as fast as possible.

I hope this answers your question about why people use cards and do not simply flight right at one another.

Well I'm surprised most of you didn't realize this was a troll from the 3rd post. Let it die.

It could be true. The low post count may even support that but why just make an account to put up one questionable question?

Although the poor sentence structure, terrible spelling, and poor grammar make me wonder if it's just someone who communicates very poorly. The apparent thought that all pieces should play the same way is a bit shocking however.

Sorry my typing skills suck and not very good at writing. And I have a hard time trying to get my point our message across to people and am come off trollish . Also yes I feel all ships play same as I not very good at understanding the different ways to play them our how they should be played

I was trying to understand the reason people using x card combo with each ship and why. Also why people where playing so different on battle reports instead of just going right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship because i feel that unfair and just being jerks

But I have lot of bad stuff in my head from my 40k days and I dont want this game to be like that

The ships are designed to be fair when flown differently. When just jousting like you do, the game becomes "unfair".

Okay....... Wordy post incoming:

All never get the comptive style play our playing unfair had same trouble with 40k just can't grasp the point of playing like a jerk our unfair like just to win

No, no-one requires you to be super-competetive. This is a game, and the point is to have fun.
Frankly, even if you're in a tournament, the point is to have fun. For that matter, 40k has (finally) figured that out - at least in the UK - where the Warhammer World events are scored first on how many favourite game votes you accrued, then on the number of games you won (i.e. if you're an arrogant, win-at-all-costs rules lawyer it is literally impossible to win the event).

But whilst you don't have to have a super-duper-awesome-squad-of-invincibleness-that-requires-no-skill-to-play-to-beat-anything*, games tend to be more fun if you feel you have a reasonable chance.

Also why people where playing so different on battle reports instead of just going right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship because i feel that unfair and just being jerks

Because.....Okay. It's tactics. It depends whether you think "having a plan" counts as an unfair advantage!
'Jousting' is the usual phrase used to describe a squad which lines up opposite the enemy, flies at them, shoots them, flies past, uses a koiogran turn to come about, does a slow move to clear stress, shoots them again, and....repeats until one side explodes, I guess.

That is a plan. And it's not, inherently, a bad one. What it is doing is reducing X-wing to a dice game. If both parties joust, you're throwing red dice at one another until someone runs out of ships. Whilst luck plays its part, one side or another is generally 'better' at jousting and you can usually see which one going in (squads with lots of raw health and red dice, like B-wings, TIE fighter swarms, and so on), so, 60-80% of the time, you know who's going to win by jousting from looking at the squad lists.

So.....what do you do if it's not you? Answer? Don't joust.

The reason X-wing is not 'just a dice game' in a way you can argue 40k is, is that not every ship gets to shoot at a target of its choice every turn. Limited options for movement and limited arcs of fire mean that concentrating fire on one target is hard, and completely dodging a ship's arc of fire so it never gets to shoot is possible. If you're really good, doing both at the same time (so I get to shoot and you don't) is lethal.

Most ships are worth their points, but not all ships are worth their points in a head-on pass. Comparing an X-wing to a TIE interceptor, the Rookie Pilot and Saber Squadron Pilot are the same price. The TIE interceptor is paying points for having a much, much better maneuver dial, and for boost and barrel roll, and for moving after the X-wing and seeing where it went before deciding to boost or barrel roll.

The X-wing has shields, and it doesn't, though, so in a head-on pass, it's going to lose as it's about half as tough. Where it has a chance of winning is getting at least a couple of turns where it has a shot and the X-wing doesn't. Therefore, it needs the game to be a turning fight around the asteroids. Therefore, it'll set up as far from the X-wing as possible and try to meet it in the asteroids where it can boost, and barrel roll, and turn tighter, and the X-wing might find its single K-turn blocked and might even lose the odd hit to collisions.

In a theoretical game of the kind that exists in the brains of the people who complain on forums a lot, the superior turning of the TIE interceptor means the X-wing never gets a shot and gets picked apart without reply.

In reality, it's somewhere between the two extremes....which is where the X-wing and the TIE interceptor both have a chance. The X-wing will win a 'fair' exchange of shots, and the TIE interceptor can boost away to avoid either player getting a shot...meaning it tends to boil down to whether the TIE interceptor manages to get a shot without being shot back before the player makes or is forced to make a mistake (which sooner or later you will) and lets the X-wing get a shot.


Any squad is somewhere along these lines; basically X-wing is a dice game, but your chosen maneuvers and upgrades let you 'fix' the dice rolls - controlling range and arcs of fire (to determine how many dice get rolled and how often) or with upgrades (to let you 'fettle' the dice rolls with things like rerolls and focus tokens).

But even if I run the tlt y wing list I normal just fly right at opponent. I dont get like the arc dodgeing etc flying stuff like why are people flying like that and not heading right for there opponent ship and why are people ganging up on one ship at a time say I have 4 ships and my brother has 4 ships it each ship go after one ship aces take on aces and so on

Concentrating fire is equally a basic trick. Barring wierd criticals, a ship fights at full effect until it dies. To reduce the amount of incoming fire, therefore, five damage on one Y-wing is worth a lot more than five damage scattered across all four.

If you only joust with TLT Y-Wings you are playing them wrong. Sorry but it's that simple.

Not necessarily. I've never tried it, but I've often wondered what BTL-A4 Y-wings en mass might be capable of.

Assuming they're just 'normal' y-wings with Twin Laser Turrets, though, you're correct.

Again, it comes down to cost:

A Y-wing with a Twin Laser Turret is (again) kind of a similar price to an X-wing with a few upgrades. You're not going to win a head-on pass, though, because the X-wing has 3 dice and 2 agility to your sort-of-3-dice-but-not-really-and-not-at-range-1 turret or 2 dice primary. You're paying some of your price to be able to throw shots to your side or rear - which works when you're using that ability to try and avoid your opponent's arc of fire whilst still shooting yourself.

* Secret hint: they don't actually exist

Well I'm surprised most of you didn't realize this was a troll from the 3rd post. Let it die.

It could be true. The low post count may even support that but why just make an account to put up one questionable question?

Although the poor sentence structure, terrible spelling, and poor grammar make me wonder if it's just someone who communicates very poorly. The apparent thought that all pieces should play the same way is a bit shocking however.

Sorry my typing skills suck and not very good at writing. And I have a hard time trying to get my point our message across to people and am come off trollish . Also yes I feel all ships play same as I not very good at understanding the different ways to play them our how they should be played

I was trying to understand the reason people using x card combo with each ship and why. Also why people where playing so different on battle reports instead of just going right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship because i feel that unfair and just being jerks

But I have lot of bad stuff in my head from my 40k days and I dont want this game to be like that

The reason why people use "x card combo with each ship" is because the card combo is to make the ship better in some way.

The reason why people do not just go right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship is because many ships fly differently than one another and can not effectively fight that way and will more than likely lose constantly trying to go head to head. It is a higher level of strategy to try to avoid an opponent's firing arc so your ships do not get shot at while at the same time your ships are able to shoot at the opponent.

As for one ship on one ship that is also not normally a effective tactic and can not always be done since not every list will have the same amount of ships. Since every ship in the game is the same effective fire power (excluding crit cards) until they are at zero health. It is another type of strategy to focus fire on a single ship to try and bring it down as fast as possible.

I hope this answers your question about why people use cards and do not simply flight right at one another.

Using the differing abilities of the ships and various upgrades is a core part of this game. To not use them and just k-turn back and forward is to be missing out on a big part of what makes this game so great. (And not to mention, sounds incredibly boring.)

I was trying to understand the reason people using x card combo with each ship and why. Also why people where playing so different on battle reports instead of just going right after each other head to head and one ship on one ship because i feel that unfair and just being jerks

But I have lot of bad stuff in my head from my 40k days and I dont want this game to be like that

Many ships in X-wing are not designed to go head-to-head so playing the game in the way means many ships will not perform well. To take an example from A New Hope, during the attack on the Death Star, the Tie Fighters usually use their better maneuverability to try and get behind the rebel X-wings. This is something the game tries to capture. Tie fighters (and interceptors) have no shields which makes them fragile but they have better maneuvers so a good player will try to position their ships so they can shoot without being shot back.

To take an example from 40K, Space Marines have lots of units but you would not try to use them all in the same way. Assaulting with your Devastator squads or trying to shoot with your Rhinos. Yes they can do it but you are unlikely to get the best performance out of them if you try to play them in that way.

Like a 40K army, a squad in X-wing needs to have each type of ship used in the right way for the list to do well. For some ships, that means going head-to-head. For others it means skirting the engagement and using their turrets. For others it means sneaking up while cloaked before launching a powerful attack, for other it means hanging back and launching proton torpedoes at the enemy from long range.

Using a ship the way it is intended to be played does not make a player a jerk. It simply means they are using the full range of ships and rules to have a fun game. Would you call a 40K player a jerk if he held his Devastators back and shot with them instead of piling into a big melee in the centre of the board?

I honestly can't imagine how anyone could simply joust in every game and still be playing. Especially with Interceptors which are really bad jousters.

But what gets me about the OP is how he considers using tactics and all of a ships abilities to be unfair and makes you a jerk... Frankly when someone has that kind of attitude until they can change that any discussion of tactics is worthless.

I mean if you have fun playing the game in most simplistic manner possible, then have fun. But when you think of anyone who dosen't as a jerk... Well I don't think anymore needs to be said.

However, I do think a lot of these posts have been great and even if the OP gets nothing from them, someone else might, or at least see how willing we are to help those who behave like that.

I honestly can't imagine how anyone could simply joust in every game and still be playing. Especially with Interceptors which are really bad jousters.

Basic X-Wings don't tend to be, either, do they? I can imagine the Squints winning on green dice spikes.

Basic X-Wings don't tend to be, either, do they? I can imagine the Squints winning on green dice spikes.

Well that is the problem with the T-65, they can't do much else and they aren't great at jousting either.

Per MajorJuggler a X-Wings Jousting Value is 88.3% and a PS4 Interceptor is 89.4%, those are both 21 point ships. So I guess the Interceptor is slightly better.

But that really means it's almost pure dice at that point... Might as well use the final salvo rules and skip the whole moving ships around step.

If you truly want to improve your game you are going to have to go back to basics and re-learn the game.

Start here:

Newguy1984: what would a list of yours look like? Same with your brothers list.

I been running soontir fell with hull up grade and predator and then 3 saber squad pilots

By brothers been running the scum k fighters with the cobra guy as their ace with pred and enign upgraded

How so frimmel sorry I want to have a fun game and not be a **** like you need to be in so many games and abuse the system to win I just like a fun far game where both players have a chance and fun. Big reason I dont play magic just to much being a **** and such

Your opening post you talk about wanting to understand combos, ships, and builds but have progressed to basically saying you don't want to use those things to your advantage. What exactly are you hoping to achieve from the discussion? Knowing that will help people help you.

I been running soontir fell with hull up grade and predator and then 3 saber squad pilots

By brothers been running the scum k fighters with the cobra guy as their ace with pred and enign upgraded

I don't understand this at all. Fel lives for stress as it unlocks his ability. To get the most out of him as a ship; you want him to have PTL. Utilising his natural ability with the appropriate upgrade isn't being a jerk or a WAAC player. It's a basic fundamental of this game. The way you play him, Fel is essentially a generic PS9 jouster.... Which is a lousy way to play one of the best and most engaging pilots in the game.

You're missing out on so much this game has to offer and selling yourself (and your brother) short by not utilising upgrades and pilot abilities.

I been running soontir fell with hull up grade and predator and then 3 saber squad pilots

By brothers been running the scum k fighters with the cobra guy as their ace with pred and enign upgraded

I don't understand this at all. Fel lives for stress as it unlocks his ability. To get the most out of him as a ship; you want him to have PTL. Utilising his natural ability with the appropriate upgrade isn't being a jerk or a WAAC player. It's a basic fundamental of this game. The way you play him, Fel is essentially a generic PS9 jouster.... Which is a lousy way to play one of the best and most engaging pilots in the game.

You're missing out on so much this game has to offer and selling yourself (and your brother) short by not utilising upgrades and pilot abilities.

So true. If you are not make it a point to have Fel doing things that stress him for massive benefit then why use him at all? If you aren't going for a Stressful Interceptor then Turr or Jax should be the go to Interceptors. Assuming you have 100 points to spend a squadron that is a 33 point Fel w/ Hull and Predator plus 63 points of Sabers is short changing you 4 points; Fel isn't the best he can be with or without initiative and at PS 4 it often doesn't matter much to the Sabers.

If I were looking for a potentially nasty four Interceptors I think the basic level is Royal Pilot w/ PtL (x4) but going Royal w/ VI (x3) plus Jax w/ upto 5 points in upgrade all acting at PS 8 can be nasty in some circles.

First I dont want to be a comptive player which I call being WAAC jerk player.

But I trying to understand how and why combo's work and only why you can only use x combos.

Now with my list I dont see why I want to stress fel as I find stress not a good thing as limits what you can do

And I like abilities that add more attack dice as its hard to kill stuff

I just dont see how stressing fel helps the free token one gets dont help me much lot of times it go to waste

The point of Fel and his free focus is so that you can use your actions to do other things, like boost and barrel roll so you are not in your opponent's firing arc and then since he gets the focus from the stress you have it available to modify your attack. Or take a focus and evade actions then get the bonus focus token from ability so you can use one during attack and another during defence. If you can roll the dice and never need to use the focus token you are either extremely lucky or the exact opposite of lucky. Being able to modify dice (both for offence and for defence) is a big part of improving your chances of winning a game. And it is possible to be a competitive player without going all the way to being a jerk. Also I don't remember anyone saying you CAN'T use "x combos" only that some things add together to be better than each upgrade is separately.

First I dont want to be a comptive player which I call being WAAC jerk player.

Well, you're wrong. I can't put it any more bluntly than that.

You can be competitive and still be a well-intentioned, decent player with good sportsmanship; where you and your opponent have a fun time. In fact, the best games I've ever had have been incredibly competitive, with the result coming down to the wire and each playing pushing themselves in terms of flying and getting the most out of their squad. We both had a great time as the game has played out; regardless of who walked away with the victory.

Do you call a major sportsperson/team who wish to be competitive and win at their chosen game WAAC jerks? No. Why is it any different here?

Your attitude makes no sense to me at all. I like to consider myself a competitive player when I go up against an opponent, but that doesn't mean I'm a jerk nor am I out to WAAC. But by your standards, if I was to rock up with a PTL Fel and arc-dodge him the way he's best flown; I'm a WAAC jerk.

Personally, I think your attitude towards this game is the issue here; not those of us who like to play this game to its full capacity.

And I like abilities that add more attack dice as its hard to kill stuff

You're finding it hard to kill stuff because you're not making use of your dice modifiers and available combos. Do that, and things can die incredibly quickly.