My word, how did I miss this thread until now.

Inattentiveness is a hallmark of the Imperial Command Structure.

... How else do you think the Rebellion gets away with everything right under your noses?

One of the most enjoyable films i've seen in ages, so much so i made the gf come see it a second time (she's a trekkie and fell asleep... but still wanted to wake up for the awesome end scenes). Very refreshing plot compared to the likes of Marvel films/ most current Hollywood blockbusters.

No one asked for my opinion. But I'll express it anyway. Im a big star wars fan. So much so, that i cant get excited even one bit about rouge 1. Its politically correct. So much of that has gone around any way that i reject anything that also is..and its self defeating. Were finally at the last trilogy which was hard enough getting hardcore fans to accept. But now a "cut away" money grabbing movie that has characters no fan will probably care about. Just stop. Stick with the final trilogy and stop. Its ruining what magic starwars has. Its too much. Just stop before you ruin it more. Or before it becomes an extreme leftist movie. Which it already has developed into

"extreme leftist" - you utter clown. Guess you missed politics day 1, week 1 huh?

My executive secretary secretly secured our clan tickets on Christmas day...Needless to say my son fell asleep in the middle...The actors were great in thier roles...Some scenes were too long and others could have been omitted...To me the six cameos in Rouge One were put in to get the attention to older viewers of a New Hope...Darth Vader was so freaking slow ; thought that James Earl Jones was in costume...The planetary battle sequences resembled game footage from Battlefront...I did like the new Droid that had a Han Solo / C3PO personality , adding IP-man as a blind Jedi wannabe added unexpected flair...I was dissapointed in nott seeing the Emporer or hint of Snoke...The rest was totally predictable with no surprises...The theater was packed and at the end I would have to say over half of the viewers were just Mehhhh another Star Wars movie...

My word, how did I miss this thread until now.

No one asked for my opinion. But I'll express it anyway. Im a big star wars fan. So much so, that i cant get excited even one bit about rouge 1. Its politically correct. So much of that has gone around any way that i reject anything that also is..and its self defeating. Were finally at the last trilogy which was hard enough getting hardcore fans to accept. But now a "cut away" money grabbing movie that has characters no fan will probably care about. Just stop. Stick with the final trilogy and stop. Its ruining what magic starwars has. Its too much. Just stop before you ruin it more. Or before it becomes an extreme leftist movie. Which it already has developed into

You're absolutely right!

Star Wars is being run by a vast left-wing conspiracy, which intends to let girls believe that they should do something other than clean the house, make dinner, and pop out a child every year or so. Did you notice how Finn and Poe looked at eachother in that scene when they're about to take off for Starkiller Base? They're trying to mainstream gayness! Rogue One is also showing terrorists (like Saw Gerrera, a black man with a Hispanic name) as good guys. What's next, Osama bin Laden as the hero of an American movie?

This political correctness has to stop, and these extreme leftists have to stop. I'm glad you had the courage to stand up to it. Also, I'm proud that you had the courage to step up to the leftist manipulation of your third-grade teacher, when she attempted to teach you grammatical correctness. Film-makers and teachers are ruining America!

Isn't the nasty side of the Rebellion - similar to "both sides have legitimate points" with "both sides do bad things"?

I know, right!? The original star wars is a good movie, because it shows you how a simple red-blooded white guy from the country, who knows how to install his own power converters, and have Faith, can take on the government and win! Rogue One wants to make you believe that if you take on the left-wing totalitarian government, that you'll end up dying and having the planet blown up (global warming conspiracy, amiright?). That's what you get when you have this even-Steven, both-sides-do-it, black is white, politically-correct trash.

I think halfway through this post I drowned because the sarcasm was so deep.

#makestarwarsgreatagain

Rogue One reigned again for its second weekend. I won't be surprised if it falls out of the top slot next weekend, but I do hope it does maintain number one.

Meanwhile, Passengers bombed. As much as I dig Jennifer Lawrence, I suppose there is a price to be paid for trying to cash in on The Hunger Games. (Not Lawrence, but the agent and director who cast her.)

No one asked for my opinion. But I'll express it anyway. Im a big star wars fan. So much so, that i cant get excited even one bit about rouge 1. Its politically correct. So much of that has gone around any way that i reject anything that also is..and its self defeating. Were finally at the last trilogy which was hard enough getting hardcore fans to accept. But now a "cut away" money grabbing movie that has characters no fan will probably care about. Just stop. Stick with the final trilogy and stop. Its ruining what magic starwars has. Its too much. Just stop before you ruin it more. Or before it becomes an extreme leftist movie. Which it already has developed into

I know, right? I mean, who the hell thought it would be a good idea to make women the lead protagonists in Star Wars? What are they, stupid, or just mind-influenced by those horrible feminists fighting for equality and equity? /s

Are you f'ing serious dude? What fracking century do you even live in? Women and minorities "[ruin] what magic starwars(sic) has"?? Do you even hear yourself? I mean, really, goddess forfend we should have a movie that shows women actually doing stuff, and being the heroes. And the poor young boys (let alone older men who grew up with this boys' fantasy world) who don't get to see themselves reflected in the protagonist, many for the first time in their lives, how will they cope? What will this do to their self-esteem? Oh, right, nothing, because virtually every other action lead is a white man.

Seriously, gtfo with this bs. Star Wars is a story of hope and change, of fighting the demons both within and without and overcoming them. Star Wars is about building a better world for all of us and those that come after. If you don't like that you don't belong in the fandom in the first place.

Do you do anything beside stalk the forum looking for feminist arguments to be had? There's actually a game here called Armada that people play. The guy didn't even mention feminists or women specifically. Don't get me wrong, I think his conclusion is off, and I thought the movie was fan-frekking tastic and I loved Jyn/Felicity and thought she was great, but it's clear the film was pushing politically correct vision.

it's clear the film was pushing politically correct vision

Really? So at the same time as Princess Leia passes away, you call having a lead feminine character "politically correct".

You have an issue with your perception of the world.

No one asked for my opinion. But I'll express it anyway. Im a big star wars fan. So much so, that i cant get excited even one bit about rouge 1. Its politically correct. So much of that has gone around any way that i reject anything that also is..and its self defeating. Were finally at the last trilogy which was hard enough getting hardcore fans to accept. But now a "cut away" money grabbing movie that has characters no fan will probably care about. Just stop. Stick with the final trilogy and stop. Its ruining what magic starwars has. Its too much. Just stop before you ruin it more. Or before it becomes an extreme leftist movie. Which it already has developed into

I know, right? I mean, who the hell thought it would be a good idea to make women the lead protagonists in Star Wars? What are they, stupid, or just mind-influenced by those horrible feminists fighting for equality and equity? /s

Are you f'ing serious dude? What fracking century do you even live in? Women and minorities "[ruin] what magic starwars(sic) has"?? Do you even hear yourself? I mean, really, goddess forfend we should have a movie that shows women actually doing stuff, and being the heroes. And the poor young boys (let alone older men who grew up with this boys' fantasy world) who don't get to see themselves reflected in the protagonist, many for the first time in their lives, how will they cope? What will this do to their self-esteem? Oh, right, nothing, because virtually every other action lead is a white man.

Seriously, gtfo with this bs. Star Wars is a story of hope and change, of fighting the demons both within and without and overcoming them. Star Wars is about building a better world for all of us and those that come after. If you don't like that you don't belong in the fandom in the first place.

Do you do anything beside stalk the forum looking for feminist arguments to be had? There's actually a game here called Armada that people play. The guy didn't even mention feminists or women specifically. Don't get me wrong, I think his conclusion is off, and I thought the movie was fan-frekking tastic and I loved Jyn/Felicity and thought she was great, but it's clear the film was pushing politically correct vision.

You're gonna have to explain what politically correct vision you're talking about there... noticing that the world isn't predominantly white and male isn't being politically correct. And if being politically correct means inclusive/ egalitarian then sign me up.

(and before you say it, i say this as a white, ex military, middle class male ).

it's clear the film was pushing politically correct vision

Really? So at the same time as Princess Leia passes away, you call having a lead feminine character "politically correct".

You have an issue with your perception of the world.

What does Carrie Fisher dying have to do with the casting and writing of the new Star Wars films?

Rogue One Lead Good Guys Characters:

-Jyn: woman

-Cassian; Latino

-Baze: Asian dude

-Chirrut: Second Asian dude

-Bodi: Middle eastern dude

-Mon Mothma: woman

Rogue One Lead Bad Guys:

-Krennick: White dude!

-Tarkin: White dude!

-Vader: White dude!

-Pretty much every other imperial officer: White dude!

Rogue One Other less than heroic characters:

-Garven Dreis: white dude who was kind of a jerk and ordered execution and was kinda unwilling to support Jyn's crew

-Forest Whittaker: black dude who was a terrorist

-Galen Erso: white dude who creates the death star (bad) ultimately redeems himself but would have been better if he didn't make it in the first place.

Force Awakens:

-Rey: a woman

-Finn: black dude

-Poe: heroic white dude

-Han: heroic white dude

-Kylo: Evil white dude

-Hux: Evil white dude

-Phasma: Evil woman

So out of 19 lead or semi-lead characters, we have

8 / 10 heroic minorities

2 / 10 heroic white dudes

5 / 6 villains represented by white dudes

1 / 6 villains played by a woman

3 less than heroic but not quite evil roles, 2 of which are white dudes.

I don't understand how my world perception is off. Listen, I thought Rogue One was GREAT. FANTASTIC. But I don't know how anyone can honestly say they didn't seed the deck with obvious, in-your-face multiculturalism when it came to the heroic characters. I don't really care too much because the film was GREAT, but I also can't say it wasn't very noticeable/obvious.

The guy didn't even mention feminists or women specifically. Don't get me wrong, I think his conclusion is off, and I thought the movie was fan-frekking tastic and I loved Jyn/Felicity and thought she was great, but it's clear the film was pushing politically correct vision.

For me, I'll always compare Rogue One unfavorably to the original version of the Death Star plan story as presented in the radio drama. In that story:

1-The rebellion was mostly a political entity with various planets and Senators conspiring to thwart the Empire through various means, both political and militarily.

2-The Empire was, as seen in ANH, more of a bureaucracy. Sure, there were evil people inside but they mainly were working in out of the public view. Only after the Death Star was complete could they say "**** it, we're in charge".

3-Princess Leia had a much more significant role, secretly providing aid to the rebels on the Tantive IV under cover of "diplomatic mission" or providing emergency aid (i.e. "mercy missions"). It was the princess that tricked the empire into revealing the existence of the death star and she planned the capture of the DS plans.

4-Princess Leia hyperspaces into the rebel planet, get's the plans under the excuse that she had engine trouble, and jumped out immediately afterwards. She wasn't directly involved in the fighting.

As I've said before, in Rogue One the Empire and Rebellion seem stuck in their post-ANH military configurations and Princess Leia is relegated to a mere side character, not the brave Rebel leader that she was in ANH. Heck, she was so uninvolved, you'd have to wonder why Tarkin was so sure she even knew of the location of the Rebel Base.

I've heard from others, and agree 100%, that the "steal the plans" plot would have been better served as a heist film rather than as a war film with the Star Wars: The War Story being better suited to some other event taking place later in the timeline. I would have preferred that at least one character from Rogue One survived so you could juxtapose what the pre and post-Death Star galaxy looked like.

-Poe: heroic white dude

O scar Isaac was born in Guatemala to a half-French/half-Guatemalan mother and a Cuban father. I can't speak for whether or not he considers himself a "white dude".

Personally, I have no problem seeing hot chicks kick *** in a fantasy or sci-fi movie.....or even in a show like NCIS.

It's a fictional story. Why should I shed tears just because a movie has a female protagonist in the lead?

Yes, Star Wars is and should be about diveristy. It is about a galaxy of a thousand thousand inhabited worlds. Some human, some not so human. Black, white, olive skinned, male, female, droid, what have you.

If there was one eentsy weentsy problem I had with Rogue One (and I do not say this in any way disrespectfully toward people of color or of foreign descent), but there were a lot of dialects and accents that I really had a hard time discerning what a lot of the characters were saying. (No, I'm not deaf, the theater crowd was politely quiet during the film's presentation.) But seriously, there was some dialogue I had to try and focus on, and could not because of the many accents... and sometimes, depending on the dramatic needs of the situation, just how fast they were speaking. I plan on going and seeing this movie again, but next time, I might make use of the theater's "closed caption" function, simply so I can see what is actually being said during some of those scenes.

Again, no disrespect intended with previous statement. MTFBWY'all.

Living in Diverse area (even though Portland is still very white it does have a lot of people from different cultures) I may have an advantage because I am use to accents, but I didn't think anyone had that thick of an accent at all. Donnie Yen might be from Hong Kong but his English is very good, better than many Americans I've meet, and his accent is still ok to deal with. The worst I heard was Forest's "accent?" It was the hardest but that wasn't even an accent, that was a director's choice for the character and didn't sound like Forest at all.

If you live in middle America without exposure to different cultures then it might be hard at first, but give it a little time and effort and you will have no issues. (I started with British films and found that was very useful to understanding accents, and their native tongue is English.)

The only thing I couldn't understand from Forrest Whittaker was the line about the tentacle monster brain-****** Bodhi. It was clear it had some reprecussions but I couldn't understand exactly what he said (and I've seen the movie 3 times looking specifically for that line on the latter 2 and I still couldn't understand what he says)

He said it makes them go insane and lose their mind.

At least that's what I got from it.

I don't understand how my world perception is off. Listen, I thought Rogue One was GREAT. FANTASTIC. But I don't know how anyone can honestly say they didn't seed the deck with obvious, in-your-face multiculturalism when it came to the heroic characters. I don't really care too much because the film was GREAT, but I also can't say it wasn't very noticeable/obvious.

I think there's no question that Disney is pushing Star Wars to be more inclusive. Yes, that is 'politically correct'. I guess the question is if you applaud or denounce that fact.

As a general response to all the "multicultural" complaints about the recent films let me drop a Truth bomb. Whites are absolutely a minority on this planet we call Earth. (And why are there two Asian actors from China in the movie? Because Star Wars Is Huge In China! Portraying culturally accurate characters that connects to Millions of its fans just makes sense.) Yes we control most of the wealth but as for numbers we are the minority. And as for women? More than half of the Humans are women even if most of the leading characters in the films we watch are men women still out number men.

So in a galaxy far far away do we still have to have to have racism and sexism? Oh wait, that's the Empire, a Xenophobic Sexist Authoritarian Dictatorship. You know, the "Bad Guys".

Racism and Sexism is not good for anyone in the end and again Star Wars is about inclusiveness and that is exactly what we are getting. So embrace it or hide in a small bunker holding onto beliefs that are outdated. Most movies still have White Protagonists but now that there are a handful of movies breaking that mold why is anyone freaking out? I know why but that Fear is based on a lie.

I'm gonna say that I'm pretty much a conservative.... but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good movie, and Rogue One ranks up to be one of the best Star Wars movies ever made (in my humble opinion.)

The original Star Wars was really a risk on so many levels.... and it was a risk that paid off. It was a product of its time, but it was a movie that inspired the imagination....and still does to this day.

Now, living in a more socially conscious world, a movie like Rogue One pays off as a product of its time.

I believe in "social consciousness". I don't believe in "social justice warriors".

I believe in being polite, and just generally being good to one another. I don't believe in political correctness.

I saw no SJW'ing or political correctness in Rogue One...or in TFA (or even the prequel trilogy) as a result of its diversity, multiculturalism, and female empowerment. (There's a difference between "empowered" and "entitled". ) What I saw were two Star Wars movies that, again, IMVHO, started bringing the magic back.

(And Padme Amidala still has the cutest butt in a galaxy far far away....Thank you, Episode II! )

I believe in "social consciousness". I don't believe in "social justice warriors".

I believe in being polite, and just generally being good to one another. I don't believe in political correctness.

Hey man,

Thanks for sharing your point of view. Could you expand on what you mean by social consciousness?

For my part, political correctness essentially is about politeness. Where many of my conservative friends seem to get their hackles raised is when they are admonished for transgressing new norms of politeness regarding including particular groups.

When I hear people complaining about Political Correctness it feels like they are upset because they can't openly say the n-word, call someone a F&@ or publicly put women in their "place". You know, being publicly ridiculed for oppressing groups of people they don't like. So all I hear when someone complains about Political Correctness is "Help Help, I'm not allowed to oppress!"

There was a saying that at first people feel Oppressed when they have to treat everyone as equal even though that is the opposite of Oppression. And since Star Wars is now a saga for the whole world let there be more ethnic groups in to your Sci-Fi because the main characters are still white. (Rey and Jyn are both still really white.)

And asking you to treat other groups with respect is nothing, and I mean nothing, like oppression. It's nothing more than being respectful which is the exact thing you all want in return. Give respect and you shall receive respect back. Act disrespectful and don't be shocked or surprised when someone puts you back in your place.

In conservative circles 'political correctness' seems to mean a curb on free speech. In some way it is - though the enforcement is social, rather than legal - and dissing political correctness is taken as an act of righteous civil disobedience. Some conservatives also construct political correctness as being a prohibition against non-liberal political opinions. Like so many things, the term is definitionally gerrymandered to suit one's needs.

But Martok2112 seems like an authentic fellow, so I'd like to read his thoughts on the matter.

Hi, Mikael,

Well, to me, being socially conscious is simply the advocacy of positive socio-political change, and either taking part in ensuring that change through promoting understanding, or at least, not doing anything to prevent such change. When you are advocating social change and progress for the betterment of all, so that no one fights about it, or if you can adopt the "live and let live" mentality, and simply let social progress unfold as it should, then that, in my humble opinion, is social consciousness.... or perhaps "social conscience" is a better phrase. Whether it is a consciousness of a racial / ethnic, gender, sexual, religious, health status, or just what have you.... to try and help for the betterment of one so that the end result is the betterment of all....that's social consciousness.

But you don't have to browbeat people into acceptance, advocacy, or tolerance. If you browbeat, you only breed resentment. When you start browbeating, then you've gone from advocating "social consciousness" to precipitating "social justice warmongering"...which to me means you've lost focus..

Bottom line is this: "Be excellent to each other." -Abraham Lincoln

That's all it takes.

As for "political correctness".... as with many things, it may have started out as a good idea in someone's mind, but ultimately, lots of good ideas fall into disharmony....sometimes as a result of the dissatisfaction of others, or as a result of crumbling under its own weighty goals.

I've always taken "political correctness" as unnecessarily walking on eggshells.

The stigma one feels when hearing the term "political correctness" actually amounts to a notion that a general once cited: That political correctness was the misguided, liberal notion that one can pick up a turd by the clean end. (paraphrased)

But, disregarding that last statement, I've always discerned between "political correctness" and simply "being polite."

I'm going to be very frank, here:

When you don't have to go out of your way to be cool to somebody, anybody, regardless of who they are or what they represent, that's just being polite. Being excellent to another.

When you have to adopt euphemisms and walk on eggshells around even someone you'd call a friend (and sacrifice verbal economy...LOL!)....that's being politically correct.

To me, a white person is a white person, regardless of their background. A black person is a black person regardless of their background. A handicapped person (whether mentally or physically) is a handicapped person....and so forth, and so on.

I don't expect to be called "German-Irish-American" I certainly am not a "Teutonic-Celtic-American".. I'm a white boy, plain and simple. White, conservative, spiritual, heterosexual. Big deal. White person suits me just fine. That's just who I am. No need to waste many more words than "white person", "white man", or "white boy" on me. Now, because I can live with that simple two-word descriptor, it doesn't mean I'm claiming "white privilege" or that I hate someone who might be white, liberal, gay, or black, moderate, bisexual.... or any combination you choose to throw together in contrast. There are even some who would say that if I am perfectly happy with being simply called "white boy" that I am brazenly flexing my "white privilege".

But as a young lesbian woman once told me at a Bourbon Street club that I sang at shortly after the tragic massacre at the gay dance club in Florida, "Always be proud of who you are."

About the only time I use a locative identifier with the suffix -American is "Native American"....because that is what they are. They aren't Indians. That was a misnomer given to them by someone who thought he'd landed in India centuries ago. (If I recall correctly, I'm pretty sure that legend belongs to Christopher Columbus, but I could be wrong. )

To this day, I've never had a black person come up and say to me: "Why'd you call me a 'black person'?! I am an African-American! Or if that is too much for you, I am a person of color!" I have never had that happen to me when I referred to someone (even to their face) as a black person.

Now, ethnic slurs..... that defies even the term political incorrectness. That's just downright ugly, wanton racism. Slurs against people of different sexual backgrounds.... vile hate speech. It goes beyond a simple lack of political correctness into a whole different animal.

I consider myself politically incorrect. There's a difference between being anti-PC, and being flat out racist, supremacist, what have you.

Those who think that being PC means "Oh, dang, I cain't use the 'N' bomb no mo' !" have the wrong idea. They're racist. Period. If they can't even grasp the concept of simply being polite to someone who is not the same skin color as themselves, then how could they even identify political correctness?

Every race, every ethnicity, every sexual orientation, every religion, every ideology has their troublemakers. And where I live and work... you pretty much see it all at its best and its worst. And when you see it at its worst.....sometimes even the staunchest, most PC person could almost be driven to breaking from their ideology....regardless of who is being the worst of whatever it is they represent.

And I say this in all politeness, not political correctness: "I hope I have not offended anyone with my views."

Hey, folks. Let's all do ourselves a favor. Can we please get back to simple opinions about Rogue One? I find that even with the best of intentions, socio-political discourse can often fall into discord...and I really don't wanna see that happen.

Humble thanks.

Martok I completely respect your response here and agree with almost all of it. I don't think of myself as politically correct at all and still use terms that may upset today's young adults but I am also of a more liberal mind set. But I respect anyone who has a rational mind set to their beliefs. We all have seen too much hate in the last decade that is caused by a feeling of the loss of control. But here I think a liberal and conservative can agree.

Most kind, Beatty, thank you. I try to be respectful of others' views on forums such as this, because we are really here to talk about our love for Star Wars, especially in the gaming realm. (I still have yet to try Armada as a game. I largely get the miniatures to serve as 3D references for when I build my own CG versions of such models.)

I do agree, different mindsets can have civil discourse if they consider the words of the other, and choose their own words carefully with respect. Extreme mindsets on both sides can end up being a wee bit too passionate about their own beliefs and opinions, to the exclusion of the other.... and then nothing gets considered or resolved.

Young adults today did not grow up in our generation, where we were a bit more thick-skinned. A time when we didn't need "trigger warnings" on our movies and shows. (All we needed was G, PG, PG-13, and R). A time when we trusted our childrens' intelligence when it came to video games, even when they started getting a bit more intense in content.. (Not that I have children....'cause I don't. ) When we understood that victory and defeat are supposed to have very different feelings, and that we couldn't always get what we want. That one could be magnanimous in victory, and gracious in defeat. Where we could watch movies like "Blazing Saddles" or "The Kentucky Fried Movie" and understand that such movies were meant for all of us to laugh at ourselves as well as each other. And hindsight goes on.

Believe me, I'm no angel in the matter. I think it is easier in the written forum to be able to have civil discourse, because the participants have time to consider what it is they want to say, and how to say it without being disruptive or disrespectful. Even if someone says something that rubs the other(s) the wrong way, the respondents can still return fire with civility and class. In real-time, vocal discussion, people are often put to the test on how well they can comport themselves over potentially heated issues. There have been plenty of times in forums where my views have upset others....although certainly not intentionally.

As Henry VIII said in The Tudors: Honor and virtue can be redeemed and recovered. Time cannot.

And yes, 2016 has not been a very good year..

I too have my feelings on 2016 but it is not appropriate, Civil or PC. 2016 has been a bad year for many reasons, national, global and personally. It was a bad year for most for sure. Not going to miss this year nor will I look back on it with rose tinted glasses.

Agreed. My political views aside, 2016 was not a good year.

In fact, I wonder if anyone years down the road might turn their nose up at a wine that was made in 2016.

Connoisseur: "Ugh... 2016....not a good year."

Server: "But sir, madame, we did get Rogue One."

Connoissuer: "Ok, gimme the bloody bottle!"

Looks like Rogue One is indeed going to close out week three at number 1. Yeahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course, there weren't any real wide-release or hgh profile movies getting released this week, but I'm still happy that Rogue One is staying on top, regardless of the circumstances.