Most kind, Beatty, thank you. I try to be respectful of others' views on forums such as this, because we are really here to talk about our love for Star Wars, especially in the gaming realm. (I still have yet to try Armada as a game. I largely get the miniatures to serve as 3D references for when I build my own CG versions of such models.)

I do agree, different mindsets can have civil discourse if they consider the words of the other, and choose their own words carefully with respect. Extreme mindsets on both sides can end up being a wee bit too passionate about their own beliefs and opinions, to the exclusion of the other.... and then nothing gets considered or resolved.

Young adults today did not grow up in our generation, where we were a bit more thick-skinned. A time when we didn't need "trigger warnings" on our movies and shows. (All we needed was G, PG, PG-13, and R). A time when we trusted our childrens' intelligence when it came to video games, even when they started getting a bit more intense in content.. (Not that I have children....'cause I don't. ) When we understood that victory and defeat are supposed to have very different feelings, and that we couldn't always get what we want. That one could be magnanimous in victory, and gracious in defeat. Where we could watch movies like "Blazing Saddles" or "The Kentucky Fried Movie" and understand that such movies were meant for all of us to laugh at ourselves as well as each other. And hindsight goes on.

Believe me, I'm no angel in the matter. I think it is easier in the written forum to be able to have civil discourse, because the participants have time to consider what it is they want to say, and how to say it without being disruptive or disrespectful. Even if someone says something that rubs the other(s) the wrong way, the respondents can still return fire with civility and class. In real-time, vocal discussion, people are often put to the test on how well they can comport themselves over potentially heated issues. There have been plenty of times in forums where my views have upset others....although certainly not intentionally.

As Henry VIII said in The Tudors: Honor and virtue can be redeemed and recovered. Time cannot.

And yes, 2016 has not been a very good year..

I have appreciated your tone very much Martok2112 (even as a self-identified SJW, I embrace the term), but disagree heartily with your sentiments.

One thing about your description of "this generation" (I'm kind of in the middle, born a touch early for millenials, too late for the previous gen), remember that this generation very much is what was made of them by your generation. All the participation trophies, the "special snowflake" education, all of that was given and implemented by your generation (and I'm not necessarily agreeing with you that they're negatives. This generation gets dumped on rather unfairly quite a bit by the older generations that handed them a really sh*tty situation).

No, you haven't had a black person say those things to you, because for the most part "black person" when used casually isn't seen as a slur, by a great many african americans. Now, when you're speakling generally, to the public at large, there may be people who do take offense to the term, and really, like it's really any extra effort. I mean, it is four more syllables. That might make your talk or paper a whole 30 seconds longer by the end. /s

Also, YOU didn't need trigger warnings and safe spaces as a kid or young adult, that does not mean that they are somehow unnecessary or indicative of some sort of inherent weakness in the current generation of young adults. We grow as a society, we learn things. We make mistakes and we try to correct them. It is the driving force that has made us the dominant species on this planet, the desire to do better. What you are seeing today is the current iteration of that drive. Mental health is a real thing, and it has to be maintained just as strenuously as physical health. Just as eating junk food reduces your physical health; constant re-exposure or reactivation of past trauma degrades your mental health. Now, my form of PTSD stems from my time in the Army, I get anxious driving sometimes (particularly if tired or already anxious) and around the 4th of July I get a touch jumpy. Some people, on the other hand, have it from other traumas, from DV, from childhood abuse (both emotional and physical), from deprivation (poverty and hunger, sickness), and from a host of other sources. Now, we can't anticipate every trigger, but we can think of the most common ones (sexual violence, combat, and abuse) when we write, and give a friendly warning. I endured quite a bit of emotional abuse as a child from both my mother and my siblings. I have a really difficult time watching movies with abuse, or reading articles about such, unless I'm in a good place. A trigger warning at the top of the article lets me know to avoid it on days when I'm not in that good place. Sorry if they make you read a bit more, or ask you to write a bit more, but they exist for a darn good reason, even if that reason doesn't apply to you.

The reason you think people in your generation didn't "need them" is because your generation was shamed and denigrated much harder for showing "weakness", i.e. mental health issues. Mental illness was a complete stigma then (now it's just a fairly huge one, but things are getting better thanks to scrappy young adults and their older allies).

Now, about the movies, I guarantee you plenty of people have ALWAYS been insulted and hurt by them (and a great many others), but like with mental illness they just couldn't say anything about it, not if they didn't want to just make it worse. What you are seeing today is an environment that's been straight up burned out of that jungle of judgement to leave room for people to express this, a sort of hidden base if you will from which to fight the pervasive stereotyping and coating that happens in nearly all of media (seriously, look up "***** coating" of "color coating" sometime with respect to media).

You seem to be approaching this from a somewhat more open mind, but still from an insistence that what was there before is inherently better because it's what you grew up with. Being sandwiched between the generations gives me a perspective a bit different from either viewpoint (though I lean more to the side of those pushing for more inclusivity and consideration, in the classical definition of a liberal I push for change because "natural social evolution" is too **** slow where basic human rights and dignity are concerned).

Signed,

Your friendly neighborhood transwoman pansexual military-veteran gamer

Political correctness was once the term used for inclusiveness, but it became an insult over time. It was a bad term to begin with and it didn't help that some people used it like a hammer to beat others over the head with.

People that rail against inclusivity as "political correctness" are usually people that have their worldview challenged and it makes them uncomfortable. It is not easy to alter what your perceptions are, to unlearn bias.

Everyone carries bias -- everyone -- and we all experience these challenges to those biases. Some people more readily comprehend it and adapt to it, others take longer and a few too many will never want to leave their comfort zone.

I watched a movie with people in it. I didn't create a checklist of gender, ethnicity, race, religion, etc. It didn't even occur to me. It was a movie about people.

No one asked for my opinion. But I'll express it anyway. Im a big star wars fan. So much so, that i cant get excited even one bit about rouge 1. Its politically correct. So much of that has gone around any way that i reject anything that also is..and its self defeating. Were finally at the last trilogy which was hard enough getting hardcore fans to accept. But now a "cut away" money grabbing movie that has characters no fan will probably care about. Just stop. Stick with the final trilogy and stop. Its ruining what magic starwars has. Its too much. Just stop before you ruin it more. Or before it becomes an extreme leftist movie. Which it already has developed into

I know, right? I mean, who the hell thought it would be a good idea to make women the lead protagonists in Star Wars? What are they, stupid, or just mind-influenced by those horrible feminists fighting for equality and equity? /s

Are you f'ing serious dude? What fracking century do you even live in? Women and minorities "[ruin] what magic starwars(sic) has"?? Do you even hear yourself? I mean, really, goddess forfend we should have a movie that shows women actually doing stuff, and being the heroes. And the poor young boys (let alone older men who grew up with this boys' fantasy world) who don't get to see themselves reflected in the protagonist, many for the first time in their lives, how will they cope? What will this do to their self-esteem? Oh, right, nothing, because virtually every other action lead is a white man.

Seriously, gtfo with this bs. Star Wars is a story of hope and change, of fighting the demons both within and without and overcoming them. Star Wars is about building a better world for all of us and those that come after. If you don't like that you don't belong in the fandom in the first place.

Do you do anything beside stalk the forum looking for feminist arguments to be had? There's actually a game here called Armada that people play. The guy didn't even mention feminists or women specifically. Don't get me wrong, I think his conclusion is off, and I thought the movie was fan-frekking tastic and I loved Jyn/Felicity and thought she was great, but it's clear the film was pushing politically correct vision.

I participate when I feel the need to participate, not just so that some ass-hat will consider me legitimate. Guess what, this is MY community TOO, not just your boys' club where guys can sit around and complain about girls ruining "their" fandom with no one calling them on it. Don't like it, too **** bad. Plus, being pretty much the only woman on this forum from what I can tell (and the last time this conversation came up), it's pretty much up to me and the few outspoken allies we have around here (thanks you guys for speaking up to shout that a-hole down alongside me, though I wish you'd done it before I jumped in). When you are the only person of your gender at EVERY event you go to whether it's causal play or a regional tournament, when you have to get on the forums and see bull spouted against your gender with no one calling it out until YOU do, THEN you can ***** about what I say and actually have some semblance of legitimacy in doing so.

it's clear the film was pushing politically correct vision

Really? So at the same time as Princess Leia passes away, you call having a lead feminine character "politically correct".

You have an issue with your perception of the world.

What does Carrie Fisher dying have to do with the casting and writing of the new Star Wars films?

Rogue One Lead Good Guys Characters:

-Jyn: woman

-Cassian; Latino

-Baze: Asian dude

-Chirrut: Second Asian dude

-Bodi: Middle eastern dude

-Mon Mothma: woman

Rogue One Lead Bad Guys:

-Krennick: White dude!

-Tarkin: White dude!

-Vader: White dude!

-Pretty much every other imperial officer: White dude!

Rogue One Other less than heroic characters:

-Garven Dreis: white dude who was kind of a jerk and ordered execution and was kinda unwilling to support Jyn's crew

-Forest Whittaker: black dude who was a terrorist

-Galen Erso: white dude who creates the death star (bad) ultimately redeems himself but would have been better if he didn't make it in the first place.

Force Awakens:

-Rey: a woman

-Finn: black dude

-Poe: heroic white dude

-Han: heroic white dude

-Kylo: Evil white dude

-Hux: Evil white dude

-Phasma: Evil woman

So out of 19 lead or semi-lead characters, we have

8 / 10 heroic minorities

2 / 10 heroic white dudes

5 / 6 villains represented by white dudes

1 / 6 villains played by a woman

3 less than heroic but not quite evil roles, 2 of which are white dudes.

I don't understand how my world perception is off. Listen, I thought Rogue One was GREAT. FANTASTIC. But I don't know how anyone can honestly say they didn't seed the deck with obvious, in-your-face multiculturalism when it came to the heroic characters. I don't really care too much because the film was GREAT, but I also can't say it wasn't very noticeable/obvious.

Now do that for all eight movies, then come back and tell me the numbers (hint: they swing wildly the other way). EVERY SINGLE PROTAGONIST in the first movie, save one, was a white guy, and the exception was still white.

"To the person in the position of privilege, equality looks like subjugation." Don't remember who said it, but you might want to take it to heart. When you've grown up seeing white dudes everywhere then yes, a movie like Rogue One can seem "obviously stacked", but you wouldn't be saying that if it had been reversed, two poc characters and all white guys. Instead you'd be here saying "They just chose the best people for the job." GTF over it. Other people exist, they are in both the US and the world in numbers greater than white people, and they deserve representation. The faux notion of this land as a land of white people is dying. Let it fracking die already.

I've seen this movie three times now, and each time I love it just as much. I even still get a bit of that intense feeling during the final sequence. Took my five-year-old to their second viewing, and during all the tense parts they kept chanting "I am one with the force, the force is with me. I am one with the force, the force is with me!" It was great. Bugged other people maybe (though it was in a theater at a kids' arcade, so oh well), but it definitely enhanced the experience for me! :-D

No one asked for my opinion. But I'll express it anyway. Im a big star wars fan. So much so, that i cant get excited even one bit about rouge 1. Its politically correct. So much of that has gone around any way that i reject anything that also is..and its self defeating. Were finally at the last trilogy which was hard enough getting hardcore fans to accept. But now a "cut away" money grabbing movie that has characters no fan will probably care about. Just stop. Stick with the final trilogy and stop. Its ruining what magic starwars has. Its too much. Just stop before you ruin it more. Or before it becomes an extreme leftist movie. Which it already has developed into

I know, right? I mean, who the hell thought it would be a good idea to make women the lead protagonists in Star Wars? What are they, stupid, or just mind-influenced by those horrible feminists fighting for equality and equity? /s

Are you f'ing serious dude? What fracking century do you even live in? Women and minorities "[ruin] what magic starwars(sic) has"?? Do you even hear yourself? I mean, really, goddess forfend we should have a movie that shows women actually doing stuff, and being the heroes. And the poor young boys (let alone older men who grew up with this boys' fantasy world) who don't get to see themselves reflected in the protagonist, many for the first time in their lives, how will they cope? What will this do to their self-esteem? Oh, right, nothing, because virtually every other action lead is a white man.

Seriously, gtfo with this bs. Star Wars is a story of hope and change, of fighting the demons both within and without and overcoming them. Star Wars is about building a better world for all of us and those that come after. If you don't like that you don't belong in the fandom in the first place.

Do you do anything beside stalk the forum looking for feminist arguments to be had? There's actually a game here called Armada that people play. The guy didn't even mention feminists or women specifically. Don't get me wrong, I think his conclusion is off, and I thought the movie was fan-frekking tastic and I loved Jyn/Felicity and thought she was great, but it's clear the film was pushing politically correct vision.

I participate when I feel the need to participate, not just so that some ass-hat will consider me legitimate. Guess what, this is MY community TOO, not just your boys' club where guys can sit around and complain about girls ruining "their" fandom with no one calling them on it. Don't like it, too **** bad. Plus, being pretty much the only woman on this forum from what I can tell (and the last time this conversation came up), it's pretty much up to me and the few outspoken allies we have around here (thanks you guys for speaking up to shout that a-hole down alongside me, though I wish you'd done it before I jumped in). When you are the only person of your gender at EVERY event you go to whether it's causal play or a regional tournament, when you have to get on the forums and see bull spouted against your gender with no one calling it out until YOU do, THEN you can ***** about what I say and actually have some semblance of legitimacy in doing so.

We should have been a little bit more switched on to this when it was first posted, you're right. This forum is about little plastic spaceships, and that shouldn't be used as platform from which to c rap on people because of their sex, race etc.

Here here on the "snowflake generation" critique as well, i seriously hate that term.

On a lighter note, what's with all us ex military types on this forum 'ey? Armada is like catnip to uniformed types!

The makeup of the cast didn't bug me one bit. I've loved strong female leads ever since Ripley the space trucker got in a walking forklift and trash-talked an Alien Queen. (I watched Aliens before Alien)

I'm so annoyed when women and people of other ethnicities have prominent roles in my fantasy universe of Jawas, Wookies, Twi'leks, Trandoshans, sentient droids, Ewoks, Gungans (!) etc etc etc.

That doesn't bother me one bit.

I loved the film. I didn't think any of the cast were particularly interesting characters but the set pieces were magnificent. And it was worth it for the last 5 minutes.

If you don't like it you don't have to watch it. Easy. Does it have any more power to 'ruin' the setting than the Christmas Special or the Ewoks cartoon?

We do seem pretty common in the game, don't we?

Most kind, Beatty, thank you. I try to be respectful of others' views on forums such as this, because we are really here to talk about our love for Star Wars, especially in the gaming realm. (I still have yet to try Armada as a game. I largely get the miniatures to serve as 3D references for when I build my own CG versions of such models.)

I do agree, different mindsets can have civil discourse if they consider the words of the other, and choose their own words carefully with respect. Extreme mindsets on both sides can end up being a wee bit too passionate about their own beliefs and opinions, to the exclusion of the other.... and then nothing gets considered or resolved.

Young adults today did not grow up in our generation, where we were a bit more thick-skinned. A time when we didn't need "trigger warnings" on our movies and shows. (All we needed was G, PG, PG-13, and R). A time when we trusted our childrens' intelligence when it came to video games, even when they started getting a bit more intense in content.. (Not that I have children....'cause I don't. ) When we understood that victory and defeat are supposed to have very different feelings, and that we couldn't always get what we want. That one could be magnanimous in victory, and gracious in defeat. Where we could watch movies like "Blazing Saddles" or "The Kentucky Fried Movie" and understand that such movies were meant for all of us to laugh at ourselves as well as each other. And hindsight goes on.

Believe me, I'm no angel in the matter. I think it is easier in the written forum to be able to have civil discourse, because the participants have time to consider what it is they want to say, and how to say it without being disruptive or disrespectful. Even if someone says something that rubs the other(s) the wrong way, the respondents can still return fire with civility and class. In real-time, vocal discussion, people are often put to the test on how well they can comport themselves over potentially heated issues. There have been plenty of times in forums where my views have upset others....although certainly not intentionally.

As Henry VIII said in The Tudors: Honor and virtue can be redeemed and recovered. Time cannot.

And yes, 2016 has not been a very good year..

I have appreciated your tone very much Martok2112 (even as a self-identified SJW, I embrace the term), but disagree heartily with your sentiments.

One thing about your description of "this generation" (I'm kind of in the middle, born a touch early for millenials, too late for the previous gen), remember that this generation very much is what was made of them by your generation. All the participation trophies, the "special snowflake" education, all of that was given and implemented by your generation (and I'm not necessarily agreeing with you that they're negatives. This generation gets dumped on rather unfairly quite a bit by the older generations that handed them a really sh*tty situation).

No, you haven't had a black person say those things to you, because for the most part "black person" when used casually isn't seen as a slur, by a great many african americans. Now, when you're speakling generally, to the public at large, there may be people who do take offense to the term, and really, like it's really any extra effort. I mean, it is four more syllables. That might make your talk or paper a whole 30 seconds longer by the end. /s

Also, YOU didn't need trigger warnings and safe spaces as a kid or young adult, that does not mean that they are somehow unnecessary or indicative of some sort of inherent weakness in the current generation of young adults. We grow as a society, we learn things. We make mistakes and we try to correct them. It is the driving force that has made us the dominant species on this planet, the desire to do better. What you are seeing today is the current iteration of that drive. Mental health is a real thing, and it has to be maintained just as strenuously as physical health. Just as eating junk food reduces your physical health; constant re-exposure or reactivation of past trauma degrades your mental health. Now, my form of PTSD stems from my time in the Army, I get anxious driving sometimes (particularly if tired or already anxious) and around the 4th of July I get a touch jumpy. Some people, on the other hand, have it from other traumas, from DV, from childhood abuse (both emotional and physical), from deprivation (poverty and hunger, sickness), and from a host of other sources. Now, we can't anticipate every trigger, but we can think of the most common ones (sexual violence, combat, and abuse) when we write, and give a friendly warning. I endured quite a bit of emotional abuse as a child from both my mother and my siblings. I have a really difficult time watching movies with abuse, or reading articles about such, unless I'm in a good place. A trigger warning at the top of the article lets me know to avoid it on days when I'm not in that good place. Sorry if they make you read a bit more, or ask you to write a bit more, but they exist for a darn good reason, even if that reason doesn't apply to you.

The reason you think people in your generation didn't "need them" is because your generation was shamed and denigrated much harder for showing "weakness", i.e. mental health issues. Mental illness was a complete stigma then (now it's just a fairly huge one, but things are getting better thanks to scrappy young adults and their older allies).

Now, about the movies, I guarantee you plenty of people have ALWAYS been insulted and hurt by them (and a great many others), but like with mental illness they just couldn't say anything about it, not if they didn't want to just make it worse. What you are seeing today is an environment that's been straight up burned out of that jungle of judgement to leave room for people to express this, a sort of hidden base if you will from which to fight the pervasive stereotyping and coating that happens in nearly all of media (seriously, look up "***** coating" of "color coating" sometime with respect to media).

You seem to be approaching this from a somewhat more open mind, but still from an insistence that what was there before is inherently better because it's what you grew up with. Being sandwiched between the generations gives me a perspective a bit different from either viewpoint (though I lean more to the side of those pushing for more inclusivity and consideration, in the classical definition of a liberal I push for change because "natural social evolution" is too **** slow where basic human rights and dignity are concerned).

Signed,

Your friendly neighborhood transwoman pansexual military-veteran gamer

Basically, each generation gets frowned on from the one before.

Even when, some time back in my life (when I was younger and more foolish), I had sworn that I would not be so cynical of the generation that would follow mine.

Alas, when one gets older, and sees the folly of his/her own youth in the newer generation, often under a different lens, one finds that that very oath suddenly becomes moot.

We see our own follies in the youth that follow us.

I mean, surely I'm sure you've heard your elders say: "These kids! They don't know what consequences are! They weren't taught right from wrong!" and such things. God knows I've heard it plenty enough in my youth.

This could go on and on, and this really is not a political forum....so, I'll stop here..... and I completely respect your views, good Admiral.

Back to the movie:

Heh.... yeah: "I am one with The Force, The Force is with me!" I really liked that. (He also had one of the best one-liners in the whole of the film....imho.) I mean, here was a character who was not really a Jedi. To me, he was more of a "Force Monk". (Definitely reminded me of "Hundred Eyes" from Netflix's Marco Polo series. (Hundred Eyes is one of the best characters in that show.) Also, that chant kinda reminds me of, if I am not mistaken, a litany that a certain sniper made in "Saving Private Ryan" (I think that was the movie, anyway.) ..."Blessed is The Lord Who maketh my hands to war....." or something like that. It took off for quite a bit in a lot of first person shooters among players who liked to be snipers....at least in the sessions I'd played.

Ok....now, is it me, or did Darth Vader actually crack a joke in Rogue One. A sardonic joke to be sure, but a joke nonetheless.

Darth's double-pun was one of the films best moments!

Darth's double-pun was one of the films best moments!

It's not unprecedented either :-). He peppered them around in the original trilogy like a delicate spice.

Basically, each generation gets frowned on from the one before.

Even when, some time back in my life (when I was younger and more foolish), I had sworn that I would not be so cynical of the generation that would follow mine.

Alas, when one gets older, and sees the folly of his/her own youth in the newer generation, often under a different lens, one finds that that very oath suddenly becomes moot.

We see our own follies in the youth that follow us.

I mean, surely I'm sure you've heard your elders say: "These kids! They don't know what consequences are! They weren't taught right from wrong!" and such things. God knows I've heard it plenty enough in my youth.

This could go on and on, and this really is not a political forum....so, I'll stop here..... and I completely respect your views, good Admiral.

Back to the movie:

Heh.... yeah: "I am one with The Force, The Force is with me!" I really liked that. (He also had one of the best one-liners in the whole of the film....imho.) I mean, here was a character who was not really a Jedi. To me, he was more of a "Force Monk". (Definitely reminded me of "Hundred Eyes" from Netflix's Marco Polo series. (Hundred Eyes is one of the best characters in that show.) Also, that chant kinda reminds me of, if I am not mistaken, a litany that a certain sniper made in "Saving Private Ryan" (I think that was the movie, anyway.) ..."Blessed is The Lord Who maketh my hands to war....." or something like that. It took off for quite a bit in a lot of first person shooters among players who liked to be snipers....at least in the sessions I'd played.

Ok....now, is it me, or did Darth Vader actually crack a joke in Rogue One. A sardonic joke to be sure, but a joke nonetheless.

"Age does not bring wisdom, just perspective." Robert Heinlein

I've seen some of the best and worst of the older generation(s). They show just as much capacity (and sometimes more) for arrogance and idiocy, for recklessness and ridiculousness. Many have learned, true, but many haven't. In addition, they can be blinded by nostalgia, something the younger generation has yet to be too afflicted with. John Oliver did a great segment on The Daily Show wherein he explored the decades of the various Fox "anchors'" youths for what about it made it, according to them, a "simpler, more wholesome time." It was great. Watch it here: http://www.cc.com/video-clips/e08ybj/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-even-better-than-the-real-thing

The world has gotten a ton better, and despite doom-and-gloom complainers, the current generation is a strong and resilient one. It is a generation adept at adapting to the massive, unprecedented challenges thrown at them. They have taken a world that constantly denigrates them and made it their own. They aren't afraid to do some self-care, and come back out swinging when they're stronger. The millenials are a good generation, and chief among the reasons for that is their push, their abject insistence on treating people fairly; not just with equality, but with equity.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I'll yell at the top of my lungs that the movie was bad-ass until I die of hypoxia. :-)

One last thing to share, before I let this thread die, that I came across today and couldn't resist because it's just too perfect:

I honestly don't understand the whole controversy about Rogue One supposedly having a leftist slant. I'm a conservative, and if there was a leftist message in this film it was so subtle it went under my radar. The rebellion has always "diverse" and ragtag. The Empire has always been uniform and monolithic...

...I root for the Empire.

One last thing to share, before I let this thread die, that I came across today and couldn't resist because it's just too perfect:

But I thought Krennic was the protagonist?

But I thought Krennic was the protagonist?

You and Mikael would get along just fine.

But I thought Krennic was the protagonist?

You and Mikael would get along just fine.

He only wanted to bring peace and security to the galaxy.

But I thought Krennic was the protagonist?

You and Mikael would get along just fine.

He only wanted to bring peace and security to the galaxy.

From his point of view the Jedi are evil.

But I thought Krennic was the protagonist?

You and Mikael would get along just fine.

He only wanted to bring peace and security to the galaxy.

From his point of view the Jedi are evil.

Apparently, the reason why Star Wars movies bomb in China is that Chinese people can't understand why you would make a movie about a bunch of terrorists winning.

Source: The 16 Chinese kids in my homeroom class. They weren't kidding.

Also, you Americans really have to sort your race issues out before it tears your countries apart, again.

Apparently, the reason why Star Wars movies bomb in China is that Chinese people can't understand why you would make a movie about a bunch of terrorists winning.

Religious fanatic terrorists.

"May the Force be with us!"

"The Force is with me!"

"Use the Force!"

...generally followed by explosions and death.

Seriously, it's mind-blowing how easy it is to retell the tale in a completely different light .

Haha, read that one before. Really funny read.

I honestly don't understand the whole controversy about Rogue One supposedly having a leftist slant. I'm a conservative, and if there was a leftist message in this film it was so subtle it went under my radar. The rebellion has always "diverse" and ragtag. The Empire has always been uniform and monolithic...

...I root for the Empire.

You and Mikael would get along just fine.

Except that I'm a liberal lefty, but I take the Fox-news understanding of liberalism seriously. From that point of view, Liberalism attempts to stifle dissenting voices, such as those from non-mainstream news outlets, like Fox and Rush Limbaugh. Certainly in academia, where we all worship Karl Marx and Michelle Obama, everybody must believe in the progressive enterprise that is seeking to crush the spirit of the beleaguered white male - who created the glory that is Western civilization.

So, yes, Liberalism is the Empire, attempting to crush a scrappy Rebellion-like Tea Party movement, which wants to restore the republic to what it was when the world was the way it was supposed to be - before we got decadent and licentious.

As a liberal academic, I'm - of course - all for a centralized power system in the hands of a powerful black man like Darth Vader, and I am in anguish that he was defeated by Duke Trumptower.

Apparently, the reason why Star Wars movies bomb in China is that Chinese people can't understand why you would make a movie about a bunch of terrorists winning.

Religious fanatic terrorists.

"May the Force be with us!"

"The Force is with me!"

"Use the Force!"

...generally followed by explosions and death.

Seriously, it's mind-blowing how easy it is to retell the tale in a completely different light .

Hehe, love it.

But to pick up on D503 's point more seriously, that does get to a very interesting question. Is there more than anecdotal evidence and theory to support the idea that the themes of rebellion and autocratic government are what prevent enthusiasm for the new Star Wars films? I think it's certainly plausible, but I would like something solid to hang my hat on in order to embrace that explanation.