Why don't you post your engineer who's way more useful and versatile than three Jedis and we'll see if that holds up.

That wasnt so hard, now was it?

660 earned experience, plus the 110 starting - and I have zero issues being overshadowed by the others.

I've showed you mine, lets see yours.

Ah, I see the signature ability will always be held up as the thing a force sensitive character can't do unless they start out with Engineer, in which case they would have to attain their force ratings through the exile and emergent, adding significant cost to developing the character. But alright, let's see what we can come up with there.

You're 265 points into Mechanic because of the signature ability, and have locked that down as the starting career.

Looks like you spent 90 out of your 110 starting XP on stats, and bought one dedication.

That leaves 415 that in your character went into skills, Outlaw Tech and Recruit.

So, let's start by picking up the Force Sensitive Exile, spending 165 XP, picking up 2 Force Ratings, a Dedication, Quick Draw, Touch of Fate, a rank in Street Smarts, two ranks in Uncanny Reactions, Balance and Intense Focus.

We're left with 250 XP to spend, and have Intense Focus, which lets us take a Maneuver and spend strain to upgrade any skill check once. One of the most versatile talents in the game.

Now we're going to pick up Artisan, at a cost of 170 XP to get two ranks in Solid Repairs, a rank in Grit and Inventor, A force rating, Master Artisan, and Intuitive Improvements.

This leaves us with 80 XP, and we have Master Artisan, allowing us to take a maneuver to decrease the difficulty of a mechanics check once, and Intuitive Improvements, the most powerful talent for adding hardpoints to items, since you can use it on an infinite number of items and increase their hardpoints by 2 instead of just 1.

We're going to have to spend all 80 of the remaining XP to buy Mechanics 4 and Computers 3, since obviously we can't have an equivalent character to yours without those skills being the same.

Ok, so we have the Mechanic Tree with the Signature Ability, we have a Force Rating of 3, but no force powers yet, we have lost some of the goodies from Outlaw Tech, and we haven't bought any skill ranks yet, but we've gained Intense Focus, Balance, Master Artisan and Intuitive Improvements, all extremely good talents. We've also picked up one more dedication than the original character.

Alright, so you're actually correct, at 660 XP gained it's not possible to make a force user that exceeds your original character without losing access to the signature ability.

However, since you wanted to know when a force sensitive character would surpass yours, let's keep going a bit here:

25 XP to add those 3 force dice to all rolls in Resilience, Athletics, Coordination, Brawl, Pilot Planetary and Pilot Space.

30 XP to add those 3 force dice to all rolls in Charm, Coercion, Deception, Leadership and Negotiation

25 XP to add them to all Mechanics checks.

Oh, the character needs 45 XP to get those 3 ranks in Melee, which I guess is your main combat skill, so those ranks can't be ignored.

I guess 15 XP for the ranks in Brewmaster, props for having a cool custom skill.

(Of course if this character was created in play these things would be bought in a more natural order)

So, we're talking about 150 more XP before that character passes yours by. There is no way you'll be able to add the equivalent of 3 more yellow dice to 11 different skills in 150 XP, let alone 3 more dice to Mechanics.

Another thing, there is a flaw in your character, the Mechanic Tree doesn't have a Toughened node on it's 10XP tier, that's a Grit node, so your character should have 2 fewer wound and 1 more strain threshold.

Scathing tirade is actually a lot less powerful than I thought when I said that would be an overpowered character, because I thought it was 1 advantage to increase the damage to all targets, rather than 1 advantage to add 1 damage to 1 target.

Assume the 410 XP FR6 character instead buys every conceivable way for skills to gain force rating though, doesn't B-line for force ratings but builds up in a reasonable order, and actually plays to the strengths of the constituent classes. You do wind up with pretty some pretty high rolls in a ton of skills.

The skills you can add force rating to at relatively modest cost right now are Charm, Coercion, Deception, Leadership, Negotiation, Athletics, Brawl, Coordination, Pilot Planetary, Pilot Space, Mechanics, Perception and Vigilance.

You can also add force ratings to Gunnery and Ranged Light / Ranged Heavy with the correct specializations/talents, but those skills are much more expensive to add force ratings to.

Oh my god! You mean that a character with more experience points is going to be better than a character with fewer experience points? What a revelation! You sir have truly opened my eyes.

And with those 150 experience points, I will finish out my second tree and get the second signature ability* plus a whole bunch of it's tiers, making me more awesome-er than I am now.

*I'm AFB at the moment, so I'm only assuming I need 150 points to get there. That sounds about right.

Another thing, there is a flaw in your character, the Mechanic Tree doesn't have a Toughened node on it's 10XP tier, that's a Grit node, so your character should have 2 fewer wound and 1 more strain threshold.

Well look at that. I guess something good came out of this thread after all.

Oh my god! You mean that a character with more experience points is going to be better than a character with fewer experience points? What a revelation! You sir have truely opened my eyes.

And with those 150 experience points, I will finish out my second tree and get the second signature ability* plus a whole bunch of tiers, making me more awesome-er than I am now.

*I'm AFB at the moment, so I'm only assuming I need 150 points to get there.

It's like this game breaking PC of his has infinite xp and time. No matter what build you show him he'll just claim that in another Y amount of XP the Force user will surpass your build.

He has yet to actually produce this magically broken character mind you. Just point out that if we dump more xp into the character we are going to get a Force user that is better.

Why don't you post your engineer who's way more useful and versatile than three Jedis and we'll see if that holds up.

That wasnt so hard, now was it?

660 earned experience, plus the 110 starting - and I have zero issues being overshadowed by the others.

I've showed you mine, lets see yours.

Ah, I see the signature ability will always be held up as the thing a force sensitive character can't do unless they start out with Engineer, in which case they would have to attain their force ratings through the exile and emergent, adding significant cost to developing the character. But alright, let's see what we can come up with there.

You're 265 points into Mechanic because of the signature ability, and have locked that down as the starting career.

Looks like you spent 90 out of your 110 starting XP on stats, and bought one dedication.

That leaves 415 that in your character went into skills, Outlaw Tech and Recruit.

So, let's start by picking up the Force Sensitive Exile, spending 165 XP, picking up 2 Force Ratings, a Dedication, Quick Draw, Touch of Fate, a rank in Street Smarts, two ranks in Uncanny Reactions, Balance and Intense Focus.

We're left with 250 XP to spend, and have Intense Focus, which lets us take a Maneuver and spend strain to upgrade any skill check once. One of the most versatile talents in the game.

Now we're going to pick up Artisan, at a cost of 170 XP to get two ranks in Solid Repairs, a rank in Grit and Inventor, A force rating, Master Artisan, and Intuitive Improvements.

This leaves us with 80 XP, and we have Master Artisan, allowing us to take a maneuver to decrease the difficulty of a mechanics check once, and Intuitive Improvements, the most powerful talent for adding hardpoints to items, since you can use it on an infinite number of items and increase their hardpoints by 2 instead of just 1.

We're going to have to spend all 80 of the remaining XP to buy Mechanics 4 and Computers 3, since obviously we can't have an equivalent character to yours without those skills being the same.

Ok, so we have the Mechanic Tree with the Signature Ability, we have a Force Rating of 3, but no force powers yet, we have lost some of the goodies from Outlaw Tech, and we haven't bought any skill ranks yet, but we've gained Intense Focus, Balance, Master Artisan and Intuitive Improvements, all extremely good talents. We've also picked up one more dedication than the original character.

Alright, so you're actually correct, at 660 XP gained it's not possible to make a force user that exceeds your original character without losing access to the signature ability.

However, since you wanted to know when a force sensitive character would surpass yours, let's keep going a bit here:

25 XP to add those 3 force dice to all rolls in Resilience, Athletics, Coordination, Brawl, Pilot Planetary and Pilot Space.

30 XP to add those 3 force dice to all rolls in Charm, Coercion, Deception, Leadership and Negotiation

25 XP to add them to all Mechanics checks.

Oh, the character needs 45 XP to get those 3 ranks in Melee, which I guess is your main combat skill, so those ranks can't be ignored.

I guess 15 XP for the ranks in Brewmaster, props for having a cool custom skill.

(Of course if this character was created in play these things would be bought in a more natural order)

So, we're talking about 150 more XP before that character passes yours by. There is no way you'll be able to add the equivalent of 3 more yellow dice to 11 different skills in 150 XP, let alone 3 more dice to Mechanics.

Another thing, there is a flaw in your character, the Mechanic Tree doesn't have a Toughened node on it's 10XP tier, that's a Grit node, so your character should have 2 fewer wound and 1 more strain threshold.

So after dumping this build into OggDude's character builder, if you go the route of 'force dice to skill maximization' you give up the Signature Ability and pretty much all skill ranks beyond at start ranks to gain Force Dice to a bunch of skills that are otherwise just two or three green dice. The exception is the Mechanics skill, where the three Force Dice are useful, as that is where the character's focus is.

Being able to add three force dice to other skills is nice, but unless you are actually rolling those skill checks, the XP cost to get your Force Dice to those pools isn't doing anything for you. For example, if you are not the pilot of the craft that your party is flying/driving around it, being able to add Force Dice to piloting skills doesn't do anything. Also, while having your Force Dice to mechanics skills is nice, you can't stack this with Intuitive Improvements. You either add your pool for a Mechanics check to get success or advantage, or you add it so you can possibly get up to two more hard points to the item (which is a one time deal). You don't get both options.

All in all, what I would say here is the build you suggest here Aetrion is a decent build, but not so much better than Desslok's for me to call it anything other than "another fine option for a character to spend their XP on". Certainly I don't find it more "powerful" than Desslok's (if 'powerful' is something we can even define in this discussion let alone this game system).

And with those 150 experience points, I will finish out my second tree and get the second signature ability* plus a whole bunch of it's tiers, making me more awesome-er than I am now.

Those 150 XP you are ahead are only there because I knew you'd claim the signature ability makes your character better than the force user, but whew, luckily there is another signature ability so you can claim signature abilities make you better. Except then you'll be out of signature abilities, and the force character can also buy both of them eventually. You on the other hand can't ever get Manipulate.

Besides, the notion that your character is better because you might get the signature abilities earlier is highly debatable. Signature abilities are neat and all, but even if Manipulate was the only force power you ever develop, having the ability to heal droids and repair starships just by touching them, cause ion damage with melee attacks and produce triumphs on demand while making crafting rolls is not exactly something you can just brush off as being worthless.

Having signature abilities simply doesn't automatically mean your character is better than the force user, and even if it did, ok, add some more points and the force user now has both signature abilities a well. What can you buy at that point that let's you keep claiming your character is better?

Bottom line is and remains, you'll hit the point where you're out of things you can buy to keep claiming that your character is better and you'll have to start putting XP elsewhere, while the force user just keeps getting better at mechanics.

So after dumping this build into OggDude's character builder, if you go the route of 'force dice to skill maximization' you give up the Signature Ability and pretty much all skill ranks beyond at start ranks to gain Force Dice to a bunch of skills that are otherwise just two or three green dice. The exception is the Mechanics skill, where the three Force Dice are useful, as that is where the character's focus is.

All in all, what I would say here is the build you suggest here Aetrion is a decent build, but not so much better than Desslok's for me to call it anything other than "another fine option for a character to spend their XP on". Certainly I don't find it more "powerful" than Desslok's (if 'powerful' is something we can even define in this discussion let alone this game system).

Those 150 XP you are ahead are only there because I knew you'd claim the signature ability makes your character better than the force user

Okay, I wont spend those 150 points. And we're back to the shocking revelation that a character with more points is better than a character with fewer points.

How amazingly insightful of you. Surely you must have knelt at the feet of Buddha for several minutes to attain that level of enlightenment.

but whew, luckily there is another signature ability so you can claim signature abilities make you better. Except then you'll be out of signature abilities, and the force character can also buy both of them eventually. You on the other hand can't ever get Manipulate.

Wait - so your overpowered jedi can keep on buying while I cant? If they can keep growing, I'll pick up the Maurder and Doctor, buy down to the Pressure Point talent and be a combat god. Or perhaps after 90 years of playing, I'll just buy every single tree in the game.

Besides, the notion that your character is better because you might get the signature abilities earlier is highly debatable.

Lets see - the ability to build a starship out of coconuts and the ability to reroll any dice is pretty awesome.

However, your question was "How do you balance the force in mixed games?" My answer is There is no need, that I am not overshadowed by the three Jedi in the group. My engineer is goddamned awesome despite all the Jedi-ness around me. And this isn't some hypothetical scenario - we've been playing for 2.5 or 3 years now and not once have I ever felt like I was a sidekick or that I didn't have my own moments of awesome.

Here, I will repeat my point for the slow of mind in our audience: After 3 years of playing, there has never been an imbalance in a game with three Jedi and Mundane.

Honestly, you must get so very tired moving those goalposts. Why don't you sit down and take a rest while the adults discuss things. There's a good lad.

Okay, I wont spend those 150 points. And we're back to the shocking revelation that a character with more points is better than a character with fewer points.

You're missing the point. You're clinging to signature abilities to claim your character is the better mechanic than a force user can be, but once you've bought both of them there is nothing else you can buy to stay the better mechanic. Force dice and extra abilities from Manipulate as well as force exclusive mechanical abilities will overtake your character in that field at some point, regardless of where else you spend your points. It's not about XP, it's about potential, which is what I've been saying all along.

There's only one person here that's missing the point.

Bottom line is and remains, you'll hit the point where you're out of things you can buy to keep claiming that your character is better and you'll have to start putting XP elsewhere, while the force user just keeps getting better at mechanics.

I think this presumes facts not in evidence. Just because said force user can roll 10 force dice on that mechanics check doesn't mean it will matter. Sometimes success is just that; success, whether it's because you rolled 1 success or 10 success.

Ultimately if I got to the point where I had about 0.5% chance of failure on a particular skill check, I'd probably tell the GM its time for a new campaign.

Okay, I wont spend those 150 points. And we're back to the shocking revelation that a character with more points is better than a character with fewer points.

You're missing the point. You're clinging to signature abilities to claim your character is the better mechanic than a force user can be, but once you've bought both of them there is nothing else you can buy to stay the better mechanic. Force dice and extra abilities from Manipulate as well as force exclusive mechanical abilities will overtake your character in that field at some point, regardless of where else you spend your points. It's not about XP, it's about potential, which is what I've been saying all along.

I tell you what Aetrion: When you've finally gotten to this peak of potential power, please post your character to this forum. Let us know how long it took you to get there (e.g. hours played) and XP earned. I am serious. I want to know.

And just to be clear: Your +660 XP character you described above isn't there yet. Not by a long shot.

Force dice and extra abilities from Manipulate as well as force exclusive mechanical abilities will overtake your character in that field at some point, regardless of where else you spend your points.

Since this is such a huge issue in your game, then just implement a house rule that disallows adding force dice to skills. Problem solved.

I think this presumes facts not in evidence. Just because said force user can roll 10 force dice on that mechanics check doesn't mean it will matter. Sometimes success is just that; success, whether it's because you rolled 1 success or 10 success.

Ultimately if I got to the point where I had about 0.5% chance of failure on a particular skill check, I'd probably tell the GM its time for a new campaign.

That's the thing he's overlooking - once you get to about 4 yellow dice, adding more dice really doesn't really do that much. Adding another 10 will get you a whole bunch of advantage and triumphs - I guess the guy is afraid that crafting will take over the universe?

Also, skills are boring. Any schlubb can get five yellows and a green. Big deal - talents is where the fun of being a mechanic really is. Utility Belt, Bad Motivator, build a boat out of coconuts - that's the meat of the good stuff, not the ability to generate successes.

Ah well, I guess I'll keep on playing and having fun being overshadowed by the three Jedi in my party. Just call me Sidekick!

I tell you what Aetrion: When you've finally gotten to this peak of potential power, please post your character to this forum. Let us know how long it took you to get there (e.g. hours played) and XP earned. I am serious. I want to know.

And just to be clear: Your +660 XP character you described above isn't there yet. Not by a long shot.

I don't really know where that number lies, and it's a little ridiculous that people are telling me I have to find that number to prove it exists at all in a thread that is primarily a question about where to set the limits to prevent hyperspecialized characters.

If you count force ratings you're not at the mechanical peak until you've picked up every last one of them, so it's totally pointless to give you a number for that. It's much more of an issue of diminishing returns and caps for non-force sensitive characters. You're going to cap out at 6 in an attribute (7 with implant), 5 ranks in the skill, possibly two relevant signature abilities and a bunch of supporting talents. At that point going force sensitive allows you to keep advancing in the same area of expertise.

I mean let's assume Desslok just keeps building his character, gets both signature abilities, gets his skill maxed out, hits all the relevant nodes in supporting talents, and then despite everything that's been said he'd still end up with 3 more dice, a bunch of talents that support his craft he doesn't have yet, and a whole force power that enhances it further if he kept going in the direction I pointed out.

The one singular point I'm making is that if you stack force abilities on top of mundane abilities in any given area of advancement you can specialize in that area to a greater degree.

Now whether you think no character should ever be played that long, or you think that nobody can ever earn that much XP in a game, or that the other skills a non-force character can pick up more than make up for the difference is irrelevant to the problem I describe and the question I asked in this thread.

Just take it as a pure hypothetical of: If there was a game where people play characters so long that hyperspecialization becomes an issue, where is the balance lever? Is there an XP number where you should simply say "No character gets more than this"? Is there some mechanic that keeps it all even no matter how high people level their characters?

I mean this is primarily an issue with open games. On the one hand, you don't want to simply tell people "No, you can't play your character anymore!" if they get too much XP, because that sucks a lot of the fun out of making a character if every session is just a step toward forced retirement. On the other hand, you don't want people to completely break the game with hyperspecialized characters that can do things like roll 5P5F3B on a craft check and make items that simply have every single positive quality.

I don't think there is a hard an fast rule for this Aetrion. If this were an issue in our game, there are a few ways I might handle it:

1. I would talk to the player and explain the problem that I was perceiving and ask them about redistributing some of their xp elsewhere to avoid the problem area of hyper-specialization.

2. We could retire their character with a suitably epic plot for them if that was a way they wanted to go.

3. If the player didn't want to retire the character, maybe that character could go off-scene for a while (necessitating the player to make a different character).

Any options for fixing a perceived issue within any rpg rule system should always involve input from the affected player(s), IMO. The fundamental disconnection that seems to be affecting the line of communication here is that your play style seems to be very different from most others'. This isn't bad per se it is just like comparing apples to oranges.

Lets review

I can make a bounty hunter and ultra specialize with talents into a jury rigging true aim auto firing nightmare of epicness.

I can do it faster, quicker and with less require xp then any Jedi.

I can take a smuggler and turn him into a nightmare talker with the ability to manipulate dice that renders him virtually immune to threats and despairs and I can do it faster and with less xp then any Jedi character.

I can take a Heavy and turn him into a walking explosion of death that can annihilate entire armies by himself and once again I can do it faster and easier with less xp then a Jedi.

Flat out non force using characters have better talents, stats and in many cases signature abilities that can be just as hyperspecialized as Jedi only all that xp you have to spend on force powers are more skills, talents and trees then a jedi can get.

I just don't understand how you fail to grasp this simple concept.

Aetrion, I get the impression you're either not understanding or rejecting the core premise here without articulating exactly why. There's an imbalance in the rules to be sure, but it isn't big, and it's in the wrong direction. Or at least, the wrong direction for it to be a foundation for your concerns.

Non-Force users are cheeze compared to starting Jedi. You're not wrong when you comment on the enormous potential for growth force powers and some of the top shelf Jedi abilities offer, but that growth is slow, measured and reasonable.

Eventually, in the distant future of a long and lovingly crafted campaign, the tables turn on the munchkins. But practically speaking, by the time a Jedi PC is ready to call themselves a Padawan, a non force user is a master of their craft. By the time your PC is powerful enough to be considered a Knight (and no, we're not going by the standards of the book. "Knight-Level Play" ...Tell me another one!), let alone a Master, the other guy is ready to retire or make a start on an entirely new skill-set.

Eventually Jedi pull out ahead and stay there, but their non-sensitive friends will also be legendary badasses who spent most of the campaign with a competitive edge.

I mean let's assume Desslok just keeps building his character, gets both signature abilities, gets his skill maxed out, hits all the relevant nodes in supporting talents, and then despite everything that's been said he'd still end up with 3 more dice, a bunch of talents that support his craft he doesn't have yet, and a whole force power that enhances it further if he kept going in the direction I pointed out.

Assuming your hypothesis is correct, do you know why don't buy all the force dice I can get my hands on? Because I play a CHARACTER, not an optimized spread sheet. Why don't I have the force? Because she's not force sensitive. She's a normal, mundane person who got caught up in the orbit of three Jedi. I don't do that because that's not who the character is.

But judging from this thread and your rules lawering thread, this is a concept you seem unable to grasp.

If there was a game where people play characters so long that hyperspecialization becomes an issue, where is the balance lever?

It's called "Don't be a one-trick pony"

Is there an XP number where you should simply say "No character gets more than this"?

Nope - and aside from your table, it seems that this hasn't been an issue.

Is there some mechanic that keeps it all even no matter how high people level their characters?

No there is not, but as this is such a huge issue in your game, then just implement a house rule that disallows adding force dice to skills and your problem is solved.

I mean this is primarily an issue with open games.

No, this is an issue with YOUR game. My game has no balance issues, despite apparently being within a hundred or so points of me being reduced to an utterly useless sidekick.

On the other hand, you don't want people to completely break the game with hyperspecialized characters that can do things like roll 5P5F3B on a craft check and make items that simply have every single positive quality.

Dear god, is that what this is all about? That you're afraid of crafting?

Assuming your hypothesis is correct, do you know why don't buy all the force dice I can get my hands on? Because I play a CHARACTER, not an optimized spread sheet. Why don't I have the force? Because she's not force sensitive. She's a normal, mundane person who got caught up in the orbit of three Jedi. I don't do that because that's not who the character is.

*slowly raises hand* I... May be eyeballing the Sage career in my game because it has two force points... In my defense my character did grow up on a frontier farm and...

Assuming your hypothesis is correct, do you know why don't buy all the force dice I can get my hands on? Because I play a CHARACTER, not an optimized spread sheet. Why don't I have the force? Because she's not force sensitive. She's a normal, mundane person who got caught up in the orbit of three Jedi. I don't do that because that's not who the character is.

*slowly raises hand* I... May be eyeballing the Sage career in my game because it has two force points... In my defense my character did grow up on a frontier farm and...

I don't really know ... blah blah blah ... quality.

With this and the other thread you started you may want to consider another game to play.

The one singular point I'm making is that if you stack force abilities on top of mundane abilities in any given area of advancement you can specialize in that area to a greater degree.

And the point we've demonstrated is that at any given point you've named, there are still more mundane abilities to pick up. Even setting aside signature abilities, Desslok's character hasn't touched the Droid Tech, Cyber Tech, or Modder specs, all of which have something to add to his mechanical prowess. And then there's the Engineer's Saboteur and Scientist trees, at which point we're above 2000 XP and still adding mundane abilities to his mechanical focus. And even then, there's the Ace's Rigger spec to have an incredibly souped up ride, or Colonist's Entrepreneur to make sure he actually has the credits to build all of his fun gadgets. This game is broad enough and has enough interlocking parts that it is very difficult to reach a point where you can say "there's absolutely no way I could do this better--unless maybe I added Force Rating."

I don't really know ... blah blah blah ... quality.

With this and the other thread you started you may want to consider another game to play.

Is that really necessary?

And the point we've demonstrated is that at any given point you've named, there are still more mundane abilities to pick up. Even setting aside signature abilities, Desslok's character hasn't touched the Droid Tech, Cyber Tech, or Modder specs, all of which have something to add to his mechanical prowess. And then there's the Engineer's Saboteur and Scientist trees, at which point we're above 2000 XP and still adding mundane abilities to his mechanical focus. And even then, there's the Ace's Rigger spec to have an incredibly souped up ride, or Colonist's Entrepreneur to make sure he actually has the credits to build all of his fun gadgets. This game is broad enough and has enough interlocking parts that it is very difficult to reach a point where you can say "there's absolutely no way I could do this better--unless maybe I added Force Rating."

And by that point - hopefully - the AoR Engineer book will have dropped, giving me at least two more trees (assuming that they double up on one from Edge, which is probably pretty likely) to pick up. So that's what - about 10 trees? So that's 570 points just to buy the trees, plus at 300 to buy them fully out for another 3,000 points.

That's not even looking at the skills.

Assuming that you get 20 points a week, that's 178 weeks of playing - or just slightly over three and a half years. So to say I have nowhere to go is sheer lunacy.

I don't really know ... blah blah blah ... quality.

With this and the other thread you started you may want to consider another game to play.

Is that really necessary?

Possibly.

If one as a GM is spending most of their time and energy (especially for those of us who routinely "adult" and have responsibilities such as jobs, bills, and family) trying to constantly "fix" a system while hunting out every possible instance that the system breaks, then I'd say said individual is better with a system they don't have nearly as many concerns with, and thus spend their time and energy actually running games in that system instead.

For instance, as much as I like the general "dark fantasy" setting material for the recent Shadows of the Demon Lord RPG, I'll never run it because the system is (to me) far too clunky and has enough little problems that it wouldn't be fun for me, and the PCs are generally such scrubs that it probably wouldn't be much fun for my usual band of players either. Thus, we don't play it, though I've used at least one of the adventure PDFs as fodder for a 7th Sea 2nd edition adventure set in Eisen (and it went over with the players very well, as we love the new 7th Sea system).

Plus, there are other Star Wars RPGs out there, as well as a number of system hacks to let you play Star Wars using a different ruleset; I've seen ones for FATE, FATE Core, Margaret Weis Production's Cortex system, and Green Ronin's Dragon Age RPG just to name a few.