Another good episode IFF guys. While I would prefer an Armada only podcast I also wouldn't mind the podcast covering other games if you guys aren't fully into Armada right now. I have loved the IA skirmishes I have played and feel it's a much better tourney game than Armada, due to the precision of a gridded map and shorter games.

I'm also combat fatigued from how long Armada games have increased over the past year, and have been quite vocal about how clumsy and taxing it is to play with lots of squadrons, especially when both sides have 8+ (12+ vs 12+ is mind torture). I just don't like spending 1/2 of my play time shuffling squads around to move pieces, figuring out engagement and ranges for 20 pieces, and their keyword interactions, .... UHG ... it really kills gameflow for me. I'm still advocating a cut in the squadron max from 1/3 to 1/5 (134 to 80 points) or some ship upgrade that does lots of damage to squads grouped up, to discourage the giant squad balls. While I'm REALLY looking forward to Wave5 I'm also cringing just thinking about all of the new squadron keywords. It will only add more time to large squad battles and they already are too taxing for my preference. My holy grail would be Armada on a grid. It really would cut play time in half.

For me, the maneuver tool is why I was drawn to this game in the first place. I don't know if I'd like this game as much on a grid, but I can understand your frustration.

Sa-weet, can't wait to see the shirt

I'll admit it would be a shame to lose a dedicated Armada podcast, that's what got me listening to you guys, obviously, but if its starting to feel forced, maybe you guys should try a general one (or make that a Star Wars gaming one, because... well... STAH WAWS! muhaha).

You guys have got the decent back and forth and sense of humour (plus DrunkTarkins deadpan), so, whatever you guys decide, I'm pretty sure I'll stick around to listen.

Also, god dammit! I've been trying to avoid picking up IA for a few months now! But d**n if I don't now fancy picking it up after xmas with the inevitable gift vouchers (the very same scenario that made me pull the trigger on Armada). But its just finding the time to play if I did (and weathering my girlfriends unimpressed "what have you bought now?!" looks).

I'm also combat fatigued from how long Armada games have increased over the past year, and have been quite vocal about how clumsy and taxing it is to play with lots of squadrons, especially when both sides have 8+ (12+ vs 12+ is mind torture). I just don't like spending 1/2 of my play time shuffling squads around to move pieces, figuring out engagement and ranges for 20 pieces, and their keyword interactions, .... UHG ... it really kills gameflow for me. I'm still advocating a cut in the squadron max from 1/3 to 1/5 (134 to 80 points) or some ship upgrade that does lots of damage to squads grouped up, to discourage the giant squad balls. While I'm REALLY looking forward to Wave5 I'm also cringing just thinking about all of the new squadron keywords. It will only add more time to large squad battles and they already are too taxing for my preference. My holy grail would be Armada on a grid. It really would cut play time in half.

Wow! You really encapsulated my love/hate well. I thought I was kind of alone on an island with that, and was even feeling a little guilty, but I'm counting that as vindication.

Maybe it's a New York thing and that's why we get no regional.

I'm also combat fatigued from how long Armada games have increased over the past year, and have been quite vocal about how clumsy and taxing it is to play with lots of squadrons, especially when both sides have 8+ (12+ vs 12+ is mind torture). I just don't like spending 1/2 of my play time shuffling squads around to move pieces, figuring out engagement and ranges for 20 pieces, and their keyword interactions, .... UHG ... it really kills gameflow for me. I'm still advocating a cut in the squadron max from 1/3 to 1/5 (134 to 80 points) or some ship upgrade that does lots of damage to squads grouped up, to discourage the giant squad balls. While I'm REALLY looking forward to Wave5 I'm also cringing just thinking about all of the new squadron keywords. It will only add more time to large squad battles and they already are too taxing for my preference. My holy grail would be Armada on a grid. It really would cut play time in half.

Wow! You really encapsulated my love/hate well. I thought I was kind of alone on an island with that, and was even feeling a little guilty, but I'm counting that as vindication.

Maybe it's a New York thing and that's why we get no regional.

Don't get me started man. How there is no regional anywhere near one of the largest population centers in the country is freaking mind boggling to me. Ima go ahead and blame Assmodee.

Assmodee.

Maybe it's a New York thing and that's why we get no regional.

Well.. it's hard to win with squadronless fleets nowadays, so NY doesn't get a regional.

(And on a serious note I'm surprised and disappointed - I would expect NYC to have at least one regional within reasonable distance)

I only made it to 38 minutes in on the way home today. That being said, I've been on a serious drought from Armada. Other than occasionally painting squads, it's been X Wing here. And a lot of non gaming things in life.

I'm also drooling at Imperial Assault, but again, absolutely no life on that game locally. Tough to invest in another "loser" game to only collect dust. Actually our player base even for X Wing has shrunk in the last 4-6 events. Sounds like 40k and Blood Bowl are coming back and drawing interest.

If you guys move on to other games, it sounds normal, but we'll miss the shenanigans of the podcast. But I absolutely understand without fresh content, it's hard to do them. Plus if your heart isn't in it, no reason to force it.

Can't wait to finish the rest of the episode this week!

I'm also combat fatigued from how long Armada games have increased over the past year, and have been quite vocal about how clumsy and taxing it is to play with lots of squadrons, especially when both sides have 8+ (12+ vs 12+ is mind torture). I just don't like spending 1/2 of my play time shuffling squads around to move pieces, figuring out engagement and ranges for 20 pieces, and their keyword interactions, .... UHG ... it really kills gameflow for me. I'm still advocating a cut in the squadron max from 1/3 to 1/5 (134 to 80 points) or some ship upgrade that does lots of damage to squads grouped up, to discourage the giant squad balls. While I'm REALLY looking forward to Wave5 I'm also cringing just thinking about all of the new squadron keywords. It will only add more time to large squad battles and they already are too taxing for my preference. My holy grail would be Armada on a grid. It really would cut play time in half.

Wow! You really encapsulated my love/hate well. I thought I was kind of alone on an island with that, and was even feeling a little guilty, but I'm counting that as vindication.

This is what I enjoy about Armada. I love the precise movements and placements needed to execute a plan. It feels good to get all the pieces together when you have squads pinning and attacking in every direction. Plotting for 5 minutes and moving squads is so satisfying, even more so when my opponent is willing to invest a few mintues into planning their own move, not just throwing a squad into the brawl because they want to speed up the game. I find the biggest time consumer is before the initial strike. Once you get engaged, your movements and attack should be pretty clear and take no time at all.

I don't think the new squads will be a huge issue once we get used to playing them. How often are you looking at Escort ot Bomber anymore? And if it is often, you need to play more games or memorize the cards. Any of the fleet generation sites can help with that and improve your fleet theory crafting.

My local scene is all Malifaux and Age of Sigmar... I'm so depressed about it I'm about to drive two hours to get an Armada store tourney in this weekend. I'm contemplating putting up a flyer at the store like I'm in need of a bassist.

While it was somewhat somber hearing you guys saying that you're heart isn't in Armada for the time-being, I definitely enjoyed the episode. I usually really enjoy when you guys talk about other stuff, so I would welcome the change when you switch over to a more general format. However, I LOVE the intro and would be really sad to see that go.

I'm also combat fatigued from how long Armada games have increased over the past year, and have been quite vocal about how clumsy and taxing it is to play with lots of squadrons, especially when both sides have 8+ (12+ vs 12+ is mind torture). I just don't like spending 1/2 of my play time shuffling squads around to move pieces, figuring out engagement and ranges for 20 pieces, and their keyword interactions, .... UHG ... it really kills gameflow for me. I'm still advocating a cut in the squadron max from 1/3 to 1/5 (134 to 80 points) or some ship upgrade that does lots of damage to squads grouped up, to discourage the giant squad balls. While I'm REALLY looking forward to Wave5 I'm also cringing just thinking about all of the new squadron keywords. It will only add more time to large squad battles and they already are too taxing for my preference. My holy grail would be Armada on a grid. It really would cut play time in half.

Wow! You really encapsulated my love/hate well. I thought I was kind of alone on an island with that, and was even feeling a little guilty, but I'm counting that as vindication.

Maybe it's a New York thing and that's why we get no regional.

We are very lucky here to be 1.5 hours from Toronto, where they have a very large and skilled player base. We were able to go to their regionals a couple weeks ago and had a great time. Oddly, I played a 10 squad list and lost to a squadless CR90 swarm. Hah, how is that for irony. Lol

Another good episode IFF guys. While I would prefer an Armada only podcast I also wouldn't mind the podcast covering other games if you guys aren't fully into Armada right now. I have loved the IA skirmishes I have played and feel it's a much better tourney game than Armada, due to the precision of a gridded map and shorter games.

I'm also combat fatigued from how long Armada games have increased over the past year, and have been quite vocal about how clumsy and taxing it is to play with lots of squadrons, especially when both sides have 8+ (12+ vs 12+ is mind torture). I just don't like spending 1/2 of my play time shuffling squads around to move pieces, figuring out engagement and ranges for 20 pieces, and their keyword interactions, .... UHG ... it really kills gameflow for me. I'm still advocating a cut in the squadron max from 1/3 to 1/5 (134 to 80 points) or some ship upgrade that does lots of damage to squads grouped up, to discourage the giant squad balls. While I'm REALLY looking forward to Wave5 I'm also cringing just thinking about all of the new squadron keywords. It will only add more time to large squad battles and they already are too taxing for my preference. My holy grail would be Armada on a grid. It really would cut play time in half.

1. In every game discussion I have with people, I end up being the "unremittingly pushing theme over game mechanics and optimal play" guy
2. Casual gamers like myself can probably get away with running any kind of list we want, because our games come down to skill vs skill, not what is statistically more reliable in the bleeding-edge meta
3. So, take my opinions with a grain of salt...

But the game state I'd really like to see for squadrons to evolve into would be for them to be flying in all directions, with small dogfights taking place in multiple locations at the same time. Example: Your opponent engages your X-Wings with a cloud of TIEs. You hold them at bay, but in the background a wing of bombers makes a bee line for your exposed capital ships. You scramble your A-Wings to descend on them with a vengeance. But the bombers lose their pursuers in an asteroid field and emerge on the other side.

How we get the game to mechanically support small fighter tactics as a strategy, I'm not sure.

Personally, I want to see what wave 5 has to offer before we worry about the time consumption and tediousness of squadrons. Also I realize that there are a lot more new squadron abilities to get used to, but in the end of the day most experienced players will be used to them within a couple of weeks, and worst case there will be 1-2 squadrons that an experienced player will be unfamiliar with before a match begins. In the end of the day you are only allowed 134pts of squadrons so there are only so many new ways you will be able to incorporate the new unique abilities and squadrons in your list. After just observing 3-4 games most players will get the jist.

I can understand the concern. It isn't really fair for either player for a game to go to time, and I think that is more important now that there are objectives like Blockade Run where not getting to turn six can swing things in a huge way.

This is going to sound antithetical but if you hate flying squadrons,take as much anti squadron squadrons as you can fit in. .. this will make squadron game more or less straight up. .. blow up their squads before they blow up your ships. .. no complexities to contemplate... and you'll have a better ship game as a result. ..

I'm loving the podcast guys, about to listen to it a second time.

I'll say the game is dangerously close to being "solved" with the overabundance of squadrons. But I'm hoping that the next wave levels that back out a bit. The game being lengthened unnecessarily by the squadron meta is something I've been remarking on for a while now. Bluntly, squadrons on both sides are just too tough relative to what's attacking them, except for other squadrons. This leads to games where a single large furball in the center grinds down to nearly a halt as every offensive and defensive combo is triggered at once, not killing off enough enemy squadrons to significantly shorten the next squadron phase.

This is going to sound antithetical but if you hate flying squadrons,take as much anti squadron squadrons as you can fit in. .. this will make squadron game more or less straight up. .. blow up their squads before they blow up your ships. .. no complexities to contemplate... and you'll have a better ship game as a result. ..

Yes, I definitely had to look up 'Antithetical'. It didn't mean what I initially thought. Quite the opposite actually. /wink

I hope you guys will keep doing Armada casts, I would hate to lose your show.

Woo wee, Corellian chew is a bitter and salty treat

Just finished my second listen through, and I have a few observations and comments:

1) In my professional opinion, it sounds like you guys are more than a little burnt out on the current state of Armada. It happens, no biggie. I'd say probably the worst thing to do for that right now is to force yourselves into the game when you want to take things other directions. That just increases the burn out in my experience. We have lots of new Armada stuff on the horizon, and a new Regional season has begun (having played in one already, I was pretty excited about the general diversity of lists), so there are quite a few things to look forward to in this game's future that might be the moisturizing cream that the Flesh Star Destroyer needs for that dry rashy aft taint.

2) Referring again to the regional reports, we have been seeing a huge amount of list diversity, and not everyone is bringing an absolute ton of fighters. In the games I have been playing lately, I'm running on the heavy side with 8 fighters (NOT 8YTs). More uniques will add new options to the squadron game, but I don't necessarily believe that is a bad thing, or will substantially slow things even further. People are going fighter heavy right now, but the amount of Clonisher lists I ran into for many months following the popularization of that list made me burned out as well. I think things will equalize as the game continues on.

3) Concerning the run-and-hide meta: I feel like this might be a meta difference, but I have never once experienced a player simply deciding to take a knee and avoid playing the game. In my meta, we might as well be playing on a 3x3 because everyone always immediately goes at one another and games routinely end with heavy casualties on each side. In a tournament, you might be able to afford avoiding battle maybe once, but that leaves you with a razor thin margin of error in your other games. I understand that there are some lists that you just know that you won't do well against, and prefer to take a tight win or loss as opposed to a crushing one, but I always thought this situation was suitably rare to not make much of an issue in the grand scheme of things.

4) Concerning objectives: While some objectives don't necessarily force combat, I feel like the game itself encourages combat. I might need to develop more thoughts on this, but again I've never really experienced anything but fleet combat and glorious death with this game. Maybe I just need to play more often or more competitively.

I'm not sure if you guys are interested in the Campaign portion of Corellian Conflict, but I think that'll be a nice diversion from the ultra competitive lists that are at tournaments. I think the fact that people will have to share unique squadrons and upgrades will also keep things interesting.

As to the future of the show, I gotta say that I really enjoy IFF as it currently stands, and I would still listen to you guys chat if Armada becomes only one of many features, or retreats to the background for a bit. I'll echo what others say in that I would prefer more frequent episodes, for maybe about an hour. If you guys just want to talk about what games you're playing that's fine with me!

(Side note: You guys really ought to get paid by FFG for the servicing you give their products. Ever since giving this a listen I've been trying to figure out if I can afford to get into Imperial Assault. So, thanks for that.)

I will say, if you do go to an all FFG podcast.. or all games etc... name needs to change to IFFGF.. Intensify Fantasy Flight Games Firepower... lol

Also, a note on Tien Nunb's effect; while it may not be easy to bank on, its nice that it proc's off what would otherwise be a useless die roll. Dependingon your target that may mean you rolled all hits or locked down their scatter or what have you. I personally am a big yay on him, especially in Rieekan/Yavaris fleets.

Also, a note on Tien Nunb's effect; while it may not be easy to bank on, its nice that it proc's off what would otherwise be a useless die roll. Dependingon your target that may mean you rolled all hits or locked down their scatter or what have you. I personally am a big yay on him, especially in Rieekan/Yavaris fleets.

And don't forget the extra blue die for Flight Controllers!

I'll say the game is dangerously close to being "solved" with the overabundance of squadrons.

I really disagree. I just won a (admittedly pretty small, 7-player) tourney with my squadronless Mon Mothma 4xMC30/3xGR75 swarm. I tabled two good players with heavy BCC Rhymerball builds to do it.

You have to take all of the preconceptions we've all formed and reexamine them in light of the extremely squadron-heavy meta. Builds that used to be suboptimal are suddenly pretty good; many previously-dominant builds are struggling. Don't be discouraged, just keep trying new stuff and figure out how to rework the things you like to fly into a workable build.

I'll say the game is dangerously close to being "solved" with the overabundance of squadrons.

I really disagree. I just won a (admittedly pretty small, 7-player) tourney with my squadronless Mon Mothma 4xMC30/3xGR75 swarm. I tabled two good players with heavy BCC Rhymerball builds to do it.

You have to take all of the preconceptions we've all formed and reexamine them in light of the extremely squadron-heavy meta. Builds that used to be suboptimal are suddenly pretty good; many previously-dominant builds are struggling. Don't be discouraged, just keep trying new stuff and figure out how to rework the things you like to fly into a workable build.

Shhhh! Gosh Ard you are not going to stay ahead of the meta for long if you keep giving away your secrets! Prove it on the table to them!