Can someone explain why people like Davith? I was excited to put him into lists when he was first released. Both a force user and a spy? Yes please! And his fell swoop, with his ability to cause a damage by moving through a figure, certainly intrigued me as abilities that give uniques multiple attacks (and allow unmitigated damage) are much needed.

But in practice he just didn't hit very hard and I never felt I got my six points worth out of him. Admittedly, I'm not great with melee characters since I don't play them as much. But even when I played against him, especially with my current imperial spy list which gives my troopers the option of the white die, I found I could mostly ignore him. As pointed out in another thread, he can deal heavy damage when focused, but otherwise he isn't very noteworthy if you can roll an evade to negate his fell swoop. He oftentimes can't take out a single trooper.

Also, when I replaced him with Lando, my list was much more powerful. Lando can hit hard close up and has the option to take shots from far away. His gambit ability strengthens his attacks and his defense and gives him access to the white die. Lando seems better in every (well, except for his traits) way.

So can someone explain what I'm missing?

-ryanjamal

I think his value at 6 points is strong. Comparing him to other 6 cost rebel units, he has performed pretty well for me. I am already running Lando in my list and I'm short 6 points, so he's a good filler. I don't use him as a bruiser, or even as a key figure, but more of an irritation to the opponent. He typically dies in all of my games, but can last long enough and be focused on long enough to allow the rest of the list to do some work. On top of that, he's fairly efficient at 10 hps for a 6 cost.

I've thrown him in lists to get another spy on the board, and usually he performs really well for me. I make sure to focus him right away. When he's focused and hidden, he'll almost always get off Fell Swoop. It's not unlikely for him to kill a really healthy figure, or two sort of weak ones, in one activation. Vanish is also a really fun card to play if you can time it right.

I really enjoy playing with Davith.

Though I need to try get in more games with Lando.

Some of the comments were deleted from the other thread, so I'm copying them here:

buckero0:

there is and probably always will be two camps (probably the same with all skirmish games) There can be crossover between the two camps

those that play IA skirmish in order to compete and win or practice for the tournaments.

those that play IA for fun or theme or just to hang out with friends and play a game.

You must also realize that in the designers eyes, this is still a campaign game first and then skirmish game. (some of that may be changing hopefully)

Davith may not be the most competitive figure, but he is only 6pts for 10 health. He has built in stealth, Melee characters have always been weaker (except RGC perhaps) Zillo Tech. is a thing, and we're still stuck in Trooper spam swamp for a while. That being said, he is FUN to play, very thematic (he's a Jedi in a Star Wars themed game) He can use the Force User cards and moves fast and against certain deployments, he can wreck face. If the junk droid can do damage, Davith with Hide and a yellow die can also do some damage to guys as well. Everyone has there own tastes.

beefcake4000's comment from the other thread:

Competitively I'd take two obi wans if I could... but to me daviths damage output is almost as good and I reckon he makes great use of focus. I've always felt he does more damage than lando but there is always the issue of melee. Hmmmm

majushi's comment from the other thread:

Lando and Davith both roll GY for attack (although Lando can change dice if needed)

GY worst roll is pic2477003.png + pic2477003.png

For Lando this = 2 Damage, Hide & Stun @ Range 3

For Davith this = 1 Damage, Hide & Pierce 3 @ Melee

So vs a Black dice (assume 2pic2477040.png), Davith is more likely to get his damage through than Lando, thanks to that pierce 3.

vs White dice, assume not a dodge, and it's evade + block. Lando gets 1 Damage through, Davith gets 0.

GY best roll is 2mb_32913_0.png + 1mb_32913_0.png & 2pic2477003.png.

For Lando this is 5 Damage, Hide & Stun @ Range 5

For Davith this is 4 Damage, Hide & Pierce 3 @ Melee

Again, vs Black dice, Davith is likely to get at least 3 Damage through (vs singe evade) or 4 + Hide through vs anything else.

Lando is only going get 5 Damage through vs Evade, but max 4 vs the rest of the dice, only 3 through most of the time (vs 2pic2477040.png) and just 2 vs the 3pic2477040.png. (all these with Stun and Hide though)

Lando's strength lies in reducing the bad rolls thanks to his re-rolls, or changing dice type to suit situation (Red for better damage average, Blue for better range average)

Davith's strength lies in more consistent damage from outset (thanks to that pierce 3).

Command cards aren't my strong suit, but Spy + Force User in my opinion is better than Leader + Smuggler.

beefcake4000's second comment from the earlier thread:

It would matter too what's in the rest of your build. If you are running original Luke he could give davith the reroll which would overcome much of landos benefit. But if you're looking for a lone wolf perhaps davith with the extra speed? I think davith really capitalises on having focus too...

majushi's comment from the other thread:

Lando and Davith both roll GY for attack (although Lando can change dice if needed)

GY worst roll is +

For Lando this = 2 Damage, Hide & Stun @ Range 3

For Davith this = 1 Damage, Hide & Pierce 3 @ Melee

So vs a Black dice (assume 2), Davith is more likely to get his damage through than Lando, thanks to that pierce 3.

vs White dice, assume not a dodge, and it's evade + block. Lando gets 1 Damage through, Davith gets 0.

GY best roll is 2 + 1 & 2.

For Lando this is 5 Damage, Hide & Stun @ Range 5

For Davith this is 4 Damage, Hide & Pierce 3 @ Melee

Again, vs Black dice, Davith is likely to get at least 3 Damage through (vs singe evade) or 4 + Hide through vs anything else.

Lando is only going get 5 Damage through vs Evade, but max 4 vs the rest of the dice, only 3 through most of the time (vs 2) and just 2 vs the 3. (all these with Stun and Hide though)

Lando's strength lies in reducing the bad rolls thanks to his re-rolls, or changing dice type to suit situation (Red for better damage average, Blue for better range average)

Davith's strength lies in more consistent damage from outset (thanks to that pierce 3).

Command cards aren't my strong suit, but Spy + Force User in my opinion is better than Leader + Smuggler.

Thanks ryanjamal

I've edited your post in my quote above to update the symbols

majushi's comment from the other thread:

Lando and Davith both roll GY for attack (although Lando can change dice if needed)

GY worst roll is +

For Lando this = 2 Damage, Hide & Stun @ Range 3

For Davith this = 1 Damage, Hide & Pierce 3 @ Melee

So vs a Black dice (assume 2), Davith is more likely to get his damage through than Lando, thanks to that pierce 3.

vs White dice, assume not a dodge, and it's evade + block. Lando gets 1 Damage through, Davith gets 0.

GY best roll is 2 + 1 & 2.

For Lando this is 5 Damage, Hide & Stun @ Range 5

For Davith this is 4 Damage, Hide & Pierce 3 @ Melee

Again, vs Black dice, Davith is likely to get at least 3 Damage through (vs singe evade) or 4 + Hide through vs anything else.

Lando is only going get 5 Damage through vs Evade, but max 4 vs the rest of the dice, only 3 through most of the time (vs 2) and just 2 vs the 3. (all these with Stun and Hide though)

Lando's strength lies in reducing the bad rolls thanks to his re-rolls, or changing dice type to suit situation (Red for better damage average, Blue for better range average)

Davith's strength lies in more consistent damage from outset (thanks to that pierce 3).

Command cards aren't my strong suit, but Spy + Force User in my opinion is better than Leader + Smuggler.

Thanks ryanjamal

I've edited your post in my quote above to update the symbols

In regards to the text I highlighted above, Davith will usually be hidden, so it's likely he'll have another surge on that. And in most cases where I get 2+ surge results, which is fairly common with Davith (especially if you focus him) I'm always taking that fell swoop for a second attack. Assuming I'm attacking the same target, Fell Swoop lets me get in a free damage off of Cut and Run as well.

In my experience Davith can lay down some hurt if you maneuver him right.

I haven't had much experience with Lando yet though to make an educated comparison.

Perhaps my problem is that I don't focus Davith in the beginning. As a result I usually struggle to manage two surges in my attacks. I also play against a lot of lists with white dice, which are Davith's bane with their evades. Perhaps my other problem is that I generally prefer the reliability of Lando's rerolls and more consistent damage output. I also generally prefer ranged attacks to melee, as with the rebels I'm likely to run the twins, and for figures to gain the benefits from the twins they need to be able to hang back some, so I prefer the flexibility of Lando as well.

But maybe I need to try Davith out in another list with better support for his play style. We'll see. But the rest of you definitely need to try Lando out. :-) His traits may not be great, but he is definitely worth his 6 points.

-ryanjamal

Perhaps my problem is that I don't focus Davith in the beginning. As a result I usually struggle to manage two surges in my attacks. I also play against a lot of lists with white dice, which are Davith's bane with their evades. Perhaps my other problem is that I generally prefer the reliability of Lando's rerolls and more consistent damage output. I also generally prefer ranged attacks to melee, as with the rebels I'm likely to run the twins, and for figures to gain the benefits from the twins they need to be able to hang back some, so I prefer the flexibility of Lando as well.

But maybe I need to try Davith out in another list with better support for his play style. We'll see. But the rest of you definitely need to try Lando out. :-) His traits may not be great, but he is definitely worth his 6 points.

-ryanjamal

Don't forget Davith starts the game hidden. You have 1 surge for free. You'd have to be pretty unlucky to not roll at least 1 more surge on a GY attack (16% chance to NOT roll a surge).

Also, A dodge result negates all damage done, you can still trigger Fell Swoop and attack again.

Also, when you trigger Fell Swoop, you move 2 SPACES, which can let you attack a different target or simply step onto the enemy you're currently attacking and then step back. Doing this adds one free unblockable damage due to his Cut and Run ability.

Davith is great because he's fast, he's flexible and he's a Force User / Spy which opens up some great cards for him. Between cut and run, extra movement from fell swoop and a force surge at the end, he can do some serious damage. He does benefit quite well from a focus too.

And all that for 10 health, White dice and 6 points. He's a bargain and get's better with more force users like Luke or Obiwan.

Perhaps my problem is that I don't focus Davith in the beginning. As a result I usually struggle to manage two surges in my attacks. I also play against a lot of lists with white dice, which are Davith's bane with their evades. Perhaps my other problem is that I generally prefer the reliability of Lando's rerolls and more consistent damage output. I also generally prefer ranged attacks to melee, as with the rebels I'm likely to run the twins, and for figures to gain the benefits from the twins they need to be able to hang back some, so I prefer the flexibility of Lando as well.

But maybe I need to try Davith out in another list with better support for his play style. We'll see. But the rest of you definitely need to try Lando out. :-) His traits may not be great, but he is definitely worth his 6 points.

-ryanjamal

Don't forget Davith starts the game hidden. You have 1 surge for free. You'd have to be pretty unlucky to not roll at least 1 more surge on a GY attack (16% chance to NOT roll a surge).

Also, A dodge result negates all damage done, you can still trigger Fell Swoop and attack again.

Also, when you trigger Fell Swoop, you move 2 SPACES, which can let you attack a different target or simply step onto the enemy you're currently attacking and then step back. Doing this adds one free unblockable damage due to his Cut and Run ability.

Davith is great because he's fast, he's flexible and he's a Force User / Spy which opens up some great cards for him. Between cut and run, extra movement from fell swoop and a force surge at the end, he can do some serious damage. He does benefit quite well from a focus too.

And all that for 10 health, White dice and 6 points. He's a bargain and get's better with more force users like Luke or Obiwan.

He's currently my favorite figure in Skirmish. He's certainly not the best, but he's my favorite (until Vinto comes out).

I had fun using him in a force user list with Luke and Obi Wan though currently I'm trying to make him work in a Rebel Spies list.

I played a guy who's far and away my superior in the game on Vassal

He had Leia

Lando

Murne

Obiwan

Davith

Gideon

3PO

allSmuggler

Rebel High Command

All the spy cards, Negation, Take Initiative and the good force user cards.

I scored 15pts from the Dianoga, but a missed Deflection shot from Bossk killed me. I literally didn't get a decent card played again the rest of the game. He CommDisrupted me 3-4 times before wiping me out. I've never seen Murne do anything in any game, but when she's focused, she can actually hurt you pretty good bc she's usually hidden as well and the +2dmg & +2acc means she can hit from far away with some punch.

I played a few games last night with Lando replacing Davith and found him really good. I do like the damage output of a properly used Davith but the flexability of Lando and his awesome card was really interesting too. The extra stun option and reliable damage output was nice. Not sure which I prefer but I'm going to run with Lando for a few more and see