It doesn't matter what you want to call it. Even if the rotation is a year people will still snipe and sale on ebay at increased prices. Anyone around during wave 2 and 3 has already experienced this, with this game, when y-wings, tie advanceds and the falcon were out of stock for half a year.

It.was.bad.

The only thing I could see that would help in this situation is if the old core set was phased out for a new one exactly the same with upgrades/pilots, it just had updated manuvere templates and damage deck. Because NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, is going to be using the old damage deck after Kylo Ren comes out.

To ask a counter point: Why? What benefit would FFG or FFG consumers get from limited production runs? FFG would simplify their SKU offerings a bit, but would have to offset that with some other offering to make up for the upgrade cards in the ships that are out of production, so that's fairly well offset. FFG consumers would have a simpler product set to select from, but that's a learning curve, not really a huge burden for a game like this. I don't see a compelling reason to do it. I see a LOT of compelling reasons to not limit production runs.

Consumers get no advantage; obviously the bigger the selection, the happier people are.

Perhaps with the internet mode of commerce, with no need for in-store displays and dust-collecting inventory, the whole idea is out-of-date.

Maybe, just maybe, the only redeeming feature would be the notion that there are already 2 ways to buy several kinds of ships, and I would hate to think that I would never see Phoenix Squadron A-Wings because FFG shies away from releasing a 3rd version of the same ship.

Well, good thing they don't, because there are 2 ships that have had three releases. What you are advocating is for FFG to constantly relook and re-release the same ships over and over again. Which is bad for the game. Look, you may not like some of the new stuff coming. But at the very least, Wave X opens up some real amazing design space that you couldn't really cover with existing ships.

And despite what people may tell you, how rotation works in a miniatures game doesn't exactly work the same as it does in a card game. At the very least, the need is much less.

Why not just let the current functional model continue to work. Ships that don't sell don't go into the reprint cue as there are plenty still with distributors. When things start to move toward out of stock status, it gets a reprint. The profits to FFG and Asmodee drive production, so as long as demand endures for a given product, they'll find capacity to keep it in production. If there's no demand, production ceases.

Limited edition/rotation only serves the secondary market, encouraging ebayers to buy large stock of ships they will neither play nor open just for the inflated resale value after stock runs out. Bad for the community, which is therefore ultimately also bad for the game and the publisher.

The only way to make limited edition ships work IMO is if you also make them mo longer competitively legal.

Otherwise you'd end up with people paying insane prices on ebay because something that came out today made an out of print ship great.

I am strongly against this idea.

The only release model I can think of that would be worse than this idea would be random boosters. GAH!

Yeah that's a terrible idea it locks future customers out of ever owning those ships.

With things like the Falcon in the de edition running out and the amount of reprints not even able to satisfy all pre-orders … we kind of have this already. FFG is very conservative with the size of their printruns and waiting 6 months or even a year until someship become avaible again is not unheard off. At least outside of the united states. In the united states at the other hand prices for stuff like the raider explode when numbers start running low.

Besides that, I totally would not mind to have limited edition ships which are printed once and never come back. Normal standard ships with special paint jobs or slight variation on the model details. So far we got those bundled in the ace packs (bloodstripe and royal guard interceptor, glaive squadron defenders, new canon Falcon, different colored A-Wings, technical the TIE/AD x1 from the raider qualifies too as it has a different paint job too). Unbundling them from card fixes which could release separately as card only expansions would be fine by me.

Alas anything that involves new cards should never be in a really limited edition that would be awful and a good reason to quit official expansions altogether.

-snip- NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, is going to be using the old damage deck after Kylo Ren comes out.

Why? If you're using a squad that benefits from using the old deck, what are you seeing about those 4 cards that's especially devastating? Blinded Pilot, Damaged Cockpit, and Stunned Pilot aren't much different, and Injured Pilot isn't really a big deal for these squad type since they're all ps 1 or 2 generics without EPTs; it will mess up your formation if you're flying a swarm, but so would Shaken Pilot's forced non-straight maneuver.

What you are advocating is for FFG to constantly relook and re-release the same ships over and over again. Which is bad for the game. Look, you may not like some of the new stuff coming. But at the very least, Wave X opens up some real amazing design space that you couldn't really cover with existing ships.

And despite what people may tell you, how rotation works in a miniatures game doesn't exactly work the same as it does in a card game. At the very least, the need is much less.

I am advocating nothing, and I am especially not advocating re-releases of ships just to rotate paint jobs or whatnot. I am just wondering if, for the long term health of the game, some ships might disappear from store shelves.

If existing ships are not pulling their weight in the tournament scene, is FFG wasting more creative energy on fixes than on just letting that design slide into post-tournament obscurity to be replaced by a better idea? Sure, the T-65 X-Wing needs to stay relevant, but is anyone going to care* if the Khiraxz goes out of production (and, as someone pointed out, becomes casual-play only)?

I like all of the stuff in the game. I've had tons of fun with Scyks long before the fix, and I'm looking forward to the first non-TIE fighter for Imps in a very long time. What I do find amusing, however, it that in a game where change is mandated by each successive Wave of the game, people seem very threatened when someone suggests a possible change to how things are.

*Or will they only care that the price of a ship they never used in the first place goes up in price on the secondary market due to capitalistic parasitism?

Why not just let the current functional model continue to work.

Why not, indeed. Y'all seem to think I am soliciting for change, when I'm just pontificating.

The only way to make limited edition ships work IMO is if you also make them mo longer competitively legal.

Otherwise you'd end up with people paying insane prices on ebay because something that came out today made an out of print ship great.

Agreed.

The only release model I can think of that would be worse than this idea would be random boosters. GAH!

Can't disagree with you there.

I admit, I've skipped pretty much all of the thread after seeing the wealth of "NO" answers.

To add to this, any ship that was in high demand, I have the financial means that I could walk into any FLGS and buy their entire stock easily and not even blink. I'd do this, then offer to sell it back to the lot of you at grossly inflated prices via EBay because I could. I'm pretty certain that I'm not the only person who could do this. Thus, this is a terrible terrible idea.

You now own ALL the Autothrusters.

As a side benefit, you can field a 25,000 pts Starviper squadron fleet.

I am strongly against this idea.

The only release model I can think of that would be worse than this idea would be random boosters. GAH!

Random boosters WITH a limited run. If there's something good in there you might expect to pay THOUSANDS if you want to own a real copy to use.

The game may shift each time there is a new release but retiring ships changes the game far more dramatically. It's not like Wave 10 hits the shelves and suddenly you MUST stop using the same squadron you've been using, and perhaps even refining, over the last 3 waves. However some kind of forced retirement does cause the situation where what you've been playing now has to be thrown out even if it is still usable even if not the greatest.

"Forced retirement" is suggestive to me of Games Workshop's approach with codices. And Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for that matter.

I really do not want to see X-Wing go down that route.

"Forced retirement" is suggestive to me of Games Workshop's approach with codices. And Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for that matter.

I really do not want to see X-Wing go down that route.

I never had a problem with GW army books. £10 every 4 years or so (at least when I first played, £20 when I stopped) and the whole army got a revamp and updates relevant to the rules.

IMO, were FFG to go down the X-Wing 2.0 route, the best thing they could do would be to release a big book (or pack) with all the cards errata'd as appropriate - this would prevent the need to buy any new ships just to have the cards and make your models worthwhile.

After that, new ships can be released and old ones reprinted.

I do not think that retiring ships would ever be a good idea. I believe the game is still growing with new players; I know I joined within the last year around Wave 8. I know that if I was not able to get a hold of original TIE Fighters (Wave 1), Slave 1 (wave 2), or the Falcon (Wave 2) without paying EBay scalper pricing due to them being "retired", I would not have picked up the game at all.

"Forced retirement" is suggestive to me of Games Workshop's approach with codices. And Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for that matter.

I really do not want to see X-Wing go down that route.

I never had a problem with GW army books. £10 every 4 years or so (at least when I first played, £20 when I stopped) and the whole army got a revamp and updates relevant to the rules.

£30 now... A few factions got lucky and recieved softback codizes for £20-£25.

And in recent times it wasn't just revamp and updates. The Imperial Guard got its name changed to Astra Militarum and got nearly half of its units taken away.

...and then there's the mix-and-match codices, like Eldar: Craftworlds and Eldar: Harlequins, or Adeptus Mechamicus: Skitarri and Adeptus Mechanicua: Cult Mechanicus. And Codex: Imperial Knights which gets bolted on to practically every Imperial list.

Because GW doesn't want you to collect one army any more; it wants you to collect ALL the armies. It doesn't want you to buy one book, it wants you to buy ALL the books.

And it wants you to do this every year.

"Forced retirement" is suggestive to me of Games Workshop's approach with codices. And Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for that matter.

I really do not want to see X-Wing go down that route.

I never had a problem with GW army books. £10 every 4 years or so (at least when I first played, £20 when I stopped) and the whole army got a revamp and updates relevant to the rules.

£30 now... A few factions got lucky and recieved softback codizes for £20-£25.

And in recent times it wasn't just revamp and updates. The Imperial Guard got its name changed to Astra Militarum and got nearly half of its units taken away.

Yeah and those £30 codexes last 2 years tops some like the knight codex lasted barely a year, then you've got to buy the other book they release after to fix the crap they got wrong the first time so really it's £60 just for your armies rules.

It's disgusting honestly.

That's why I dropped GW. That, and how useless AoS is.

They changed al the names so they could copy-write everything. They unsurprisingly lost a court case trying to sue a guy for using 'Space Marine'.

The only thing I could see that would help in this situation is if the old core set was phased out for a new one exactly the same with upgrades/pilots, it just had updated manuvere templates and damage deck. Because NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, is going to be using the old damage deck after Kylo Ren comes out.

That's why I dropped GW. That, and how useless AoS is.

They changed al the names so they could copy-write everything. They unsurprisingly lost a court case trying to sue a guy for using 'Space Marine'.

And they stopped to translate the names of the units. Even the generic ones like Veteran Squad, Infantry Squad and Heavy Weapons Team. Really annoying in fluff texts.

Would be like they wrote things like : "Schwere Waffen Trupps provide support fire."

Absolute BS...

As the number of available options continues to grow, I wonder if FFG (and FLGS) are going to be able/willing to have a complete line of 40+ X-Wing models.

I makes me wonder when/if X-Wing will begin to have releases that are produced for a period of time and then "retired" to allow for a different ship to take its place.

You mean a block format like

Only Ships appearing in episodes 7-9 are allowed in Tournament play

Then I will most probably stop Organised Play

I am strongly against this idea.

The only release model I can think of that would be worse than this idea would be random boosters. GAH!

Random boosters WITH a limited run. If there's something good in there you might expect to pay THOUSANDS if you want to own a real copy to use.

The game may shift each time there is a new release but retiring ships changes the game far more dramatically. It's not like Wave 10 hits the shelves and suddenly you MUST stop using the same squadron you've been using, and perhaps even refining, over the last 3 waves. However some kind of forced retirement does cause the situation where what you've been playing now has to be thrown out even if it is still usable even if not the greatest.

**** that reminds me of Monsterpocalypse. How did I ever get into that game. Only the really rich players could afford playing Martians and later on Pteradax (needed 6 Nuclear Power Plants - average of 2 per case) or Cthulhu (needed many Meat Slaves for regen - was an elite unit that was 3 per case at the most). Or they would need to split cases with multiple groups.

As the number of available options continues to grow, I wonder if FFG (and FLGS) are going to be able/willing to have a complete line of 40+ X-Wing models.

I makes me wonder when/if X-Wing will begin to have releases that are produced for a period of time and then "retired" to allow for a different ship to take its place.

You mean a block format like

Only Ships appearing in episodes 7-9 are allowed in Tournament play

Then I will most probably stop Organised Play

Not to mention that makes absolutely zero sense. Judging from the love commentary at Worlds, the developers are absolutely delighted when they see ships from the earlier waves on the table and doing well.

Or when they see lost variety full stop, for that matter.

That's why I dropped GW. That, and how useless AoS is.

They changed al the names so they could copy-write everything. They unsurprisingly lost a court case trying to sue a guy for using 'Space Marine'.

Wasn't it a woman who wrote a book called dot the space marine, which was for charity.

They did sue chapter house for making resin kits to add to their stuff, when they lost that badly they went on the name change nonsense.

That's why I dropped GW. That, and how useless AoS is.

They changed al the names so they could copy-write everything. They unsurprisingly lost a court case trying to sue a guy for using 'Space Marine'.

*Twitch*

Copyright has nothing to do with writing and everything to do with the right to copy.

This has been a PSA about copyright.

(It's also more likely to be trademark than copyright I think)

(AoS's bungled attempts to make all their names trademarkable/copyrightable are all the more hilarious because the dumb name they picked for their Elves (Aelves) has been used several times by fantasy authors, and is probably the go-to spelling when someone wants Their Elves To Be Different™, and is actually closer to the original Old English spelling which has been around for centuries.)