Hey folks

So in a game I was just in, there was a dispute regarding barrel rolls, specifically the timing of the template placement and adjustment of the ship. The question comes down to can you move the template up/down the ship's edge once you've removed your ship from the playing field?

Specifically, the rules for barrel rolls state the following:

2. Place one end of the template against the left or right side of the ship’s base. The template cannot be placed beyond the front or back edges of the base. 3. Lift the ship off the play surface, then place the ship at the other end of the template. The template cannot be beyond the front or back edges of the ship’s base, and the ship must face in the same direction as before the barrel roll.

So theoretically, you've removed the ship from the board, so how can you officially know where it originally was to ensure the template does not extend beyond the base. But then in the FAQ, it states the following:

In the absence of the ruling you desire, consider the following: before picking up the ship to attempt the barrel roll, use another template to mark the ship's original position. If the barrel roll does not fit, the ship goes back to its original spot with no chance of cheating. As they say: "An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure."

I'm of the belief that after you've picked up your ship during a BR it's going to be IMPOSSIBLE to move the template up/down the ship's edge because the ship is no longer on the board!

When making a BR you should do your sliding of the template before you ever pick up the ship to move it. If you think you may not fit then put the template at the top/bottom edge of the ship before you pick it up and/or otherwise mark the original position so you could return the ship there if you can't find a safe landing spot at the other end of the template. Because you've already picked a side you'd need to try the other end of the ship's side to make sure there are no legal places to move.

I see few situations where you'd need to put the template in the middle of a ship's side before rolling and then accidentally not having a safe place to land.

Could you use a proxy base?

This specific game was on vassal, so the ability to undo it was moot. But the question of whether or not you're allowed to actually move the template still applies.

You may have found a loophole, or maybe FFG intended some wiggle room in barrel rolling. We may never know. I reviewed the rules you referenced and looked for other relevant entries. Based on the FAQ, it appears the template can be moved "as necessary" after the ship is placed on the other side of it. "As necessary" is a condition subject to interpretation. When a template is placed for a barrel roll, it is rarely unclear whether or not the barrel roll will be successful. As the player performing the barrel roll, it is easy to argue moving the template is necessary to complete the action. As an opponent, I would argue that moving the template from its original position is neither necessary nor sportsmanlike. The barrel roll is not "necessary" unless a game condition says the ship "must" barrel roll; in the absence of "must" the barrel roll is optional and therefore moving the template is not necessary. If barrel roll cannot be completed without moving the template to a postion that would have been illegal from the ship's original position; then moving the template is unsportsmanlike.

The way I've seen people resovle this is to use 2 1 straight templates, thus meaning you know where the ship started.

Personally, i think the reference to moving the template is before the ship is lifted off the board. I mean, once you've placed the template down, you're going to see if there's a potential overlap forwards or backwards before lifting and replacing the ship. Plus if you go back to the Learn to Play guide, on page 5 it states the procedure for executing a manoeuvre and step 3 says "holding the template firmly in place...". I know that's for a manoeuvre, not a barrel roll, but I think the same mechanic still holds. Once you've figured where you need to place the template for the barrel roll, it stays held firmly in place while you slide your ship up and down on the other end trying to find a legal placement.

You can move the template before moving the ship, but certainly not after.

On Vassal, just "undo" and repeat, or copy the rolling ship keeping one copy in the original position until completed the roll.

In real life, ALWAYS mark the ship's starting position