Not really. To get that crit Vader needs to spend an action on a target lock so he won´t have either the focus or the evade that the Defender has.

Yes really, that build is based on taking TL once and never spend it. Leaves Focus/Evade/BR or Boost still on the table. The dial is the bigger issue, or the absence of a native boost action on the TIE/AD x1. No native boost means no thrusters and it means as well that you usually can not have the MK2 on Vader to pimp the dial into something more useful,

With Kylo Ren crew I am still sure that we see Vader again, He really is the easiest way to apply crits right from the start and make the best out of "Show you the darkside."

Vader is meat for multiple TLTs.

This. Defenders are also meat for TLT, but the white K turns with focus/evade helps them a long massively.

Since you already have a thruster ace you could go for whatever you want!

Anything with juke is awesome with carnor, so I would say either Vessery/ryad with juke or Vader with juke, engine and computer.

Personally I would go with vader, since he is way more flexible: You can boost/BR, you can have two actions, after your first TL, you focus evade every turn, juking it out + you are PS9. But it all depends on your playstyle.

Yes I agree. But Defender would be as prone to TLTs as Vader. Both have 3 agility, evade and focus. Vader at least can get into range 1 easily

Thanks for answers so far

As I said in the end, I would prefer vader. Try him out with juke. It will make up for your lack of TL, and punish your opponent when they come close to carnor.

+ He is vader for crying out loud.

I think vader is a great sleeper ace. I do think he is a really solid choice right now. Yes he hates tlt but we all know defenders do too.

People complain about the dial but I fly him all the time and I really think he makes it great, the thing is you have to arc dodge with him, he takes skill, but with practice he is really as great as the player using him.

Because he doesn't use ptl his moves don't become predictable. But he takes strict playing

I have been practicing this list for regionals

Lambda-Class Shuttle: Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Collision Detector (0)

· Emperor Palpatine (8)

TIE Advanced: · Darth Vader (29)

Adaptability (Increase) (0)

Engine Upgrade (4)

TIE/x1 (0)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE Defender: · Maarek Stele (35)

Predator (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/x7 (-2)

at ps10 vader can move after everything being used in the game right now, and shoot them before they shoot him. You just have to be patient though. Get out of arc and then target lock, then when you engage you can focus evade. You don't get in arc then target lock, or sometimes if then catch you in arc just take the weak shot and focus evade. You need that level of carefulness. But with stele backing him up on offense you fine with firepower. I often beat my friends double ghost build, so it has plenty of firepower as long as your good with it.

Vader (EU, Targeting Computer).

Isn't Targeting Computer a redundant upgrade on him?

I think that's a typo for ATC.

The main issue is, as always, TLTs.

Are Defenders not worse against TLTs?

They fair about the same, the defender just has 1 more hit-point. Also since the defender never needs to target lock it should always have focus evade which you can't garuntee vader will.

The main issue is, as always, TLTs.

Are Defenders not worse against TLTs?

Neither are bad against TLTs. Focus + Evade stops 1 TLT from getting damage through most of the time. The only problem is 2+ TLTs. But if you are in range of multiple TLT's then you are flying the ship wrong.

My suspicion is that autothrusters has made a lot of imperial players lazy. You have to think carefully how you position either Vader or a Defender when facing multiple TLTs. Then you will do fine. But of course, people don't want to think. Take a ship with autothrusters and you don't have to---its easy-mode.

So yeah, if you like a 'thinking-man's ship' than put Vader on the table. If you want something that requires less planning ahead when setting your dial, then take a ship with autothrusters.

The main issue is, as always, TLTs.

Are Defenders not worse against TLTs?

They fair about the same, the defender just has 1 more hit-point. Also since the defender never needs to target lock it should always have focus evade which you can't garuntee vader will.

Vader is generally a solid pilot. Ive flown him a few times throughout the JM5K meta and just a bit after in I think 1 Regional (Top 16) and 1 Vassal tournament (Top 2).

He is definitely able to win games, and has the ability to get PS10/PS11 so he can win the Ace vs Ace game if you dont screw up early.

The only reason not to take him at the moment is the Black One Title, and similarly a Dengaroo with Countermeasures.

Against B1 Title, life pretty much sucks. Youll end up a 2 dice ship more often than you want.

The other big threat in the upcoming meta will be Gunner HSCP PWT lists. Vader has it rough already against PWT, always having to risk one round to get that TL to be able to do real damage, which will always cost some early hitpoints, or at least 1 riskier engagement than you want. Gunner Turrets also make every round for Vader risky. Youll do more dice vs dice than you generally want to. (Of course, this is how all pre-Autothrusters Aces functioned, and wasnt THAT big of a deal back then).

Not that you cant make him work, Id just say there are other pilots that could fit a similar bill at the moment with less risk.

Honestly, Im considering putting Vader in for Regionals this year, but will probably pick a different Ace JUST so I dont have to deal with finishing off a Regen Poe that strips my only way to deal real damage.

The issue with Vader isn't specific things "TLTs" or "stressers" so much as it is that he's just weaker defensively than any other token stacker.

TAPs and Interceptors have Autothrusters. Complain all you like about it being "easy-mode" but the fact of the matter is that it's a guarantee that Vader will not have. And far from just TLTs, it works on out-of-arc Dengar shots and Range 3 shots as well.

Defenders have a free evade token even if they get blocked or stress-stacked or fly through a rock/debris. That's a pretty rousing endorsement, but let's go ahead and add in that the Advanced's dial is worse than the Defender's. EU is mandatory on Vader, much in the same way that Autothrusters is mandatory on Interceptors, because the Advanced dial is just that bad.

Offensively, if he gets his TL, ATC Vader is the best small Imperial ship excluding Phantoms. Defensively, he's the worst of the multi-token types. It's just the way it is.

The current meta is stacked pretty heavily against high agility and token-reliant ships. Lists have to be, otherwise they'll never punch through x7's. And Vader's just caught in the crossfire there, and he's got fewer cards in his hand than most.

Vader is better than Soontir right now.

Vader is more defensive than Fenn Rau, & Fenn Rau is doing fine.

Vader is more defensive than Fenn Rau, & Fenn Rau is doing fine.

Debatable. Fenn has title, Autothrusters and extra green at range 1, while Vader has evade action

Fenn is also often paired with Manaroo which means he gets two focus tokens if blocked. Vader is screwed if he gets blocked.

Interesting sidenote from the Worlds results thread:

Well the large ship fortress meta isn't as strong as it used to be and Vader was used to eat up the Arc Dodgers like Soontir. However thanks to the MOV change Vader ends up giving MOV to your opponent and fragile can't be touched by red dice ships are not the hunter-killers that they used to be. Sure they are a staple of Ace Wing but still not like the 1 Ship Meta where you had RAC and Whisper/Soontir.

As for Vader (pilot) he did got a considerable boon with the Raider expansion. Still he is very expensive and it is hard to make use of that free action with so much stress floating around.

Is there anything to transitioning Vader into the "Alpha Strike meta"? He can grab Crack Shot and Homing Missile on top of whatever you like for his regular load out and make a mess of something pretty early. It's not a crazy Bossk build, but it has a lot of front loaded offense that will carve up an awful lot of ships.

Vader, Crack Shot, Homing Missile, x1, ATC, Guidance Chips = 36

Quickdraw, Crack Shot, Homing Missile, Spec Ops, FCS, Guidance Chips = 37

27 points left could be Omega Leader, an LRS bomber, or something I'm not thinking of.

If you're looking to alpha strike, Tomax is the next most obvious option.

If you're looking to alpha with Homing Missiles and Vader, VI is probably better than Crack Shot. Then you know where your target is and can adjust accordingly.

To sum up here are two different opinions, both very reasonable. Thank you for all your arguments and the effort answering me

I run Vader, Fel, and Phenor and use Vader for anything that can bypass green dice *cough cough R5-P8 cough cough*

Why we see so less Vader in the last time? I would prefer him over PTL aces due to the stress meta

i haven't realy seen stress meta out of epic *grumbles about rebel transport* personally i like any ship that lets me do multiple actions, however x7s are still pretty expensive and are a bit redundant alongside intercepters