Untangling stacked replacement effects of Targeting Synchronizer and Deadeye

By Rakaydos, in X-Wing Rules Questions

Swx60-targeting-synchronizer.pngDeadeye.jpg

"When a friendly ship at (range) is attacking a ship you have locked, the friendly ship treats Attack (TL): as Attack:"

"If a game effect instructs that ship to spend a TL, it may spend your TL instead."

"When an attack instructs you to spend a TL, you may spend a focus instead"

So if I'm reading this right, if I have a ship with TS and Deadeye, AND a TL, AND a focus, an ally can shoot a missile at my target, and instead of spending a TL, it attempts to spend my TL, which I replace with spending a focus.

Thoughs?

I would say that no attack is instructing the deadeye ship to discard a target lock so deadeye does nothing.

My reading is "if a game effect instructs that ship to spend a tl, ( that ship) may spend your tl (for that game effect) instead.

If the game effect is an attack, an attack is trying to spend your TL, so deadeye.

The "you" in Deadeye always refers to the ship equipped with Deadeye. When the ally ship attacks a target the Deadeye ship has locked, Targeting Synchronizer says that the friendly ship may spend your target lock. Since you (the ship with Deadeye) are not the one discarding the target lock, there is no option for the ally to spend your focus instead.

The issue i see here is both are changing Attack: Target Lock into something else.

Deadeye makes it Attack: Focus

Target Synch makes it Attack:

You cant have it be both. So which are you opting for? Attack: Focus and you completely ignore the Target Synch, or Attack: and you spend the TL on the Target Synch ship and keep your focus?

The may at the end to spend the Target Synch ship's targetlock is completely nonexistent if you opt to not use the trigger for the card, which is forcing the attack: targetlock to become attack.

In fact, it doesnt even give you an option. It flatout says "Treats it as attack" so it overrides Deadeye entirely. You cant take the bottom half of a card and ignore the top half unless its two separate triggers such as Gonk.

Edited by Vineheart01

RAW its very clean: synchro allows you to spend TARGET LOCK. End of story.

"Do what the card ...."

The issue i see here is both are changing Attack: Target Lock into something else.

Deadeye makes it Attack: Focus

Target Synch makes it Attack:

You cant have it be both.

This is exactly the answer.

RAW its very clean: synchro allows you to spend TARGET LOCK. End of story.

"Do what the card ...."

I agree the RAW its very clean, but have a different view point as to why (same end result).

If you use Target Synchro your "Attack (Target Lock):" has been changed to "Attack:" and Deadeye can no longer trigger as it needs the wording "Attach (Target Lock):" in order to do so. Likewise if you use Deadeye your "Attack (Target Lock):" has been changed to "Attack (Focus):" and now Target Synchro can no longer trigger as it needs the wording "Attack (Target Lock):" in order to do so.

The issue i see here is both are changing Attack: Target Lock into something else.

Deadeye makes it Attack: Focus

Target Synch makes it Attack:

You cant have it be both. So which are you opting for? Attack: Focus and you completely ignore the Target Synch, or Attack: and you spend the TL on the Target Synch ship and keep your focus?

Deadeye can no longer trigger as it needs the wording "Attach (Target Lock):" in order to do so.

IMO, your logic is wrong (both of you).

Deadeye has 2 independent effects, and you can very well use the 2nd effect, even if you didn't use the first.

Here's how I see this working out...

  • Ship A has a Proton Torpedo, and Enemy X in arc at range 2.
  • Ship B has Targeting Synchronizer, Deadeye, a focus, a TL on Enemy X and is at range 1-2 of Ship A.

  • Ship A wants to attack Enemy X with Proton Torpedoes
    • Proton Torpedoes is "Attack (Target Lock)"
    • Targeting Synchronizer on Ship B forces Ship A to treat it as "Attack"
    • When Proton Torpedoes instructs Ship A to spend its TL, Targeting Synchronizer allows Ship A to spend ship B's TL instead.
    • Ship B's Deadeye never has a chance to trigger, since Ship B isn't the one spending the TL.

Important to note that the reason why Deadeye on Ship B doesn't trigger is not because it is an "Attack" instead of an "Attack (focus)", but because it is Ship A spending the TL instead of ship B.

This might seem like a petty difference to point out, however...

An alternative, more interesting, scenario (which you flawed logic would have made as impossible) is this one:

  • Ship A has a Proton Torpedo, Deadeye, a focus, and Enemy X in arc at range 2.
  • Ship B has a Proton Torpedo, Targeting Synchronizer, Deadeye, a focus, a TL on Enemy X and is at range 1-2 of Ship A.

  • Ship A wants to attack Enemy X with Proton Torpedoes
    • Proton Torpedoes is "Attack (Target Lock)"
    • Targeting Synchronizer on Ship B forces Ship A to treat it as "Attack"
    • When Proton Torpedoes instructs Ship A to spend its TL, the player has a choice between 2 effects:
      • Ship A can spend ship B's TL (Targeting Synchronizer)
      • Ship A to spend its focus token (Deadeye)
  • Ship B still has its TL on Enemy X and can now use it to fire its own Torpedo / Missile.

Deadeye, for reference:

  • You may treat the Attack (target lock): header as Attack (focus):.
  • When an attack instructs you to spend a target lock, you may spend a focus token instead.

Targeting Synchornizer for reference:

  • When a friendly ship at Range 1-2 is attacking a ship you have locked, the friendly ship treats the "Attack (target lock): header as "Attack:."
  • If a game effect instructs that ship to spend a target lock, it may spend your target lock instead.
Edited by Klutz

The issue i see here is both are changing Attack: Target Lock into something else.

Deadeye makes it Attack: Focus

Target Synch makes it Attack:

You cant have it be both. So which are you opting for? Attack: Focus and you completely ignore the Target Synch, or Attack: and you spend the TL on the Target Synch ship and keep your focus?

Deadeye can no longer trigger as it needs the wording "Attach (Target Lock):" in order to do so.

IMO, your logic is wrong (both of you).

Deadeye has 2 independent effects, and you can very well use the 2nd effect, even if you didn't use the first.

Here's how I see this working out...

  • Ship A has a Proton Torpedo, and Enemy X in arc at range 2.
  • Ship B has Targeting Synchronizer, Deadeye, a focus, a TL on Enemy X and is at range 1-2 of Ship A.

  • Ship A wants to attack Enemy X with Proton Torpedoes
    • Proton Torpedoes is "Attack (Target Lock)"
    • Targeting Synchronizer on Ship B forces Ship A to treat it as "Attack"
    • When Proton Torpedoes instructs Ship A to spend its TL, Targeting Synchronizer allows Ship A to spend ship B's TL instead.
    • Ship B's Deadeye never has a chance to trigger, since Ship B isn't the one spending the TL.

Important to note that the reason why Deadeye on Ship B doesn't trigger is not because it is an "Attack" instead of an "Attack (focus)", but because it is Ship A spending the TL instead of ship B.

This might seem like a petty difference to point out, however...

An alternative, more interesting, scenario (which you flawed logic would have made as impossible) is this one:

  • Ship A has a Proton Torpedo, Deadeye, a focus, and Enemy X in arc at range 2.
  • Ship B has a Proton Torpedo, Targeting Synchronizer, Deadeye, a focus, a TL on Enemy X and is at range 1-2 of Ship A.

  • Ship A wants to attack Enemy X with Proton Torpedoes
    • Proton Torpedoes is "Attack (Target Lock)"
    • Targeting Synchronizer on Ship B forces Ship A to treat it as "Attack"
    • When Proton Torpedoes instructs Ship A to spend its TL, the player has a choice between 2 effects:
      • Ship A can spend ship B's TL (Targeting Synchronizer)
      • Ship A to spend its focus token (Deadeye)
  • Ship B still has its TL on Enemy X and can now use it to fire its own Torpedo / Missile.

Deadeye, for reference:

  • You may treat the Attack (target lock): header as Attack (focus):.
  • When an attack instructs you to spend a target lock, you may spend a focus token instead.

Targeting Synchornizer for reference:

  • When a friendly ship at Range 1-2 is attacking a ship you have locked, the friendly ship treats the "Attack (target lock): header as "Attack:."
  • If a game effect instructs that ship to spend a target lock, it may spend your target lock instead.

Remember when we just rolled some dice to see if we hit, and they rolled some dice to see if we missed?

Oh, the golden days... :)

  • Ship A has a Proton Torpedo, Deadeye, a focus, and Enemy X in arc at range 2.
  • Ship B has a Proton Torpedo, Targeting Synchronizer, Deadeye, a focus, a TL on Enemy X and is at range 1-2 of Ship A.

  • Ship A wants to attack Enemy X with Proton Torpedoes
    • Proton Torpedoes is "Attack (Target Lock)"
    • Targeting Synchronizer on Ship B forces Ship A to treat it as "Attack"
    • When Proton Torpedoes instructs Ship A to spend its TL, the player has a choice between 2 effects:
      • Ship A can spend ship B's TL (Targeting Synchronizer)
      • Ship A to spend its focus token (Deadeye)
  • Ship B still has its TL on Enemy X and can now use it to fire its own Torpedo / Missile.

The only case I can think of where this would be useful is when attacking a ship in range one of Biggs. Otherwise, ship A could have just used Deadeye to fire the ordnance and pay the cost in the first place.

In the case of Biggs, Ship A could opt to not use Deadeye to make "Attack: Target Lock" into "Attack: Focus". They would instead use the Targeting Synchronizer on Ship B to make the ship that B has a lock on into the only legal target for their ordnance. When it comes time to pay the cost for the attack however, Ship A chooses to use Deadeye and spends their focus token instead of using B's target lock. This allows Ship A to attack a ship protected by Biggs and leave the Target Lock for Ship B to use.

  • Ship A has a Proton Torpedo, Deadeye, a focus, and Enemy X in arc at range 2.
  • Ship B has a Proton Torpedo, Targeting Synchronizer, Deadeye, a focus, a TL on Enemy X and is at range 1-2 of Ship A.

  • Ship A wants to attack Enemy X with Proton Torpedoes
    • Proton Torpedoes is "Attack (Target Lock)"
    • Targeting Synchronizer on Ship B forces Ship A to treat it as "Attack"
    • When Proton Torpedoes instructs Ship A to spend its TL, the player has a choice between 2 effects:
      • Ship A can spend ship B's TL (Targeting Synchronizer)
      • Ship A to spend its focus token (Deadeye)
  • Ship B still has its TL on Enemy X and can now use it to fire its own Torpedo / Missile.

The only case I can think of where this would be useful is when attacking a ship in range one of Biggs. Otherwise, ship A could have just used Deadeye to fire the ordnance and pay the cost in the first place.

In the case of Biggs, Ship A could opt to not use Deadeye to make "Attack: Target Lock" into "Attack: Focus". They would instead use the Targeting Synchronizer on Ship B to make the ship that B has a lock on into the only legal target for their ordnance. When it comes time to pay the cost for the attack however, Ship A chooses to use Deadeye and spends their focus token instead of using B's target lock. This allows Ship A to attack a ship protected by Biggs and leave the Target Lock for Ship B to use.

Yeah, I suppose the "combo" was utterly pointless, but you found a nice use for it.

I was mainly using the example to illustrate the nuance in the rules.

Nice catch with the Biggs scenario though! :)