I just want to reassure that I dealt with Cover Up the right way:

Solo scenario "The Gathering", my Roland Banks - who was weakened by the "Cover Up" card in his threat area - defeated in the (clueless) hallway some rats or whatever, and due to his triggering ability would have been allowed to pick up a clue at the location.

Instead I then removed a clue from "Cover Up", (despite there were no clues in the hallway) because the text says "When you WOULD discover...", and I surely would have if there just had been any.... Agreed?

Because, what would happen if there were no more clues left on any of the locations? Were I then stuck with "Cover Up" and could not avoid the trauma?

I would hope for some official statement, as this question does not seem to be obvious in the rulings.

Yes, in that case you are stuck with it. Pretty harsh.

I don't have access to the FAQ, but I believe this treated the same as Buglary - i.e. you can use it even without clues on a location.

No. Cover up doesn't say "whenever you investigate successfully" but "whenever you would discover a clue". So no monsters to kill/clues to find = mental trauma.

Burglary:

http://arkhamdb.com/card/01045

Cover-Up:

http://arkhamdb.com/find?q=cover+up&sort=set&view=list&decks=player

That's the way I read it too which I think makes Cover up the worst weakness in the game at least as far as The Gathering goes (I have not played the other scenarios).

The other weaknesses have ways of being worked around. If Cover Up is drawn in a one or two investigator(s) game either Roland is hosed or the whole party is as there are not enough clues available to advance the Acts while also allowing Roland to discard the weakness. (In a three player game every clue needs to be collected. In a four player game there is one spare.)

That's the way I read it too which I think makes Cover up the worst weakness in the game at least as far as The Gathering goes (I have not played the other scenarios).

The other weaknesses have ways of being worked around. If Cover Up is drawn in a one or two investigator(s) game either Roland is hosed or the whole party is as there are not enough clues available to advance the Acts while also allowing Roland to discard the weakness. (In a three player game every clue needs to be collected. In a four player game there is one spare.)

You don't remove clues from the location and from Cover Up, there just have to be clues on the location. So, if you're in a spot with 2 clues, and would be able to discover 1, you can instead remove one from Cover Up. There are still 2 clues on the location.

So as long as you draw Cover Up early it just slows you down 3 investigations, but if you draw it too late in the game.. it is really unfortunate.

You don't remove clues from the location and from Cover Up, there just have to be clues on the location.

Right. And another case: If there is only 1 clue token left and Roland kills a monster that ends the scenario, I guess he just gets rid of that last counter before things are over. Would you agree?

Cover Up is bad (and, yes, you need to be in a location with a clue on it to pay off your Cover Up), but I will note that it, like Hospital Debts, are both weaknesses that have no effect if you're playing a one-shot.

Wow! Serious reading comprehension failure on my part. Thanks for the correction and clarification.

Always leave one clue on a low-shroud location if Roland is along for the trip

Note that the first scenario is really the only one where you're likely to run out of clues. Of course, a three-clue delay is even nastier in the other scenarios, but at least you won't end up in an "unwinnable" state.

You don't remove clues from the location and from Cover Up, there just have to be clues on the location.

Right. And another case: If there is only 1 clue token left and Roland kills a monster that ends the scenario, I guess he just gets rid of that last counter before things are over. Would you agree?

You know, that's actually a tough question to answer.

Roland's card says: After you defeat an enemy: Discover 1 clue at your location. (Limit once per round.)

If we're looking at Scenario 1, the objective of the third act is: Objective - If the Ghoul Priest is Defeated, advance

So if that last hit kills the Ghoul Priest we have two things happening. The objective will move forward and resolve, and you'd get to discover a clue after you defeat an enemy.

For Roland's power:

A reaction ability with a triggering condition beginning with the word "after..." may be used immediately after that triggering condition's impact upon the game state has resolved.

There are no specific call outs in the rules about when "If" occurs, but I'd put it on the same timing as "When"

a triggering condition beginning with the word "when..." may be used after the specified triggering condition initiates, but before its impact upon the game state resolves.

So, in this case, and using the Grim Rule as a backup. I'd say you kill the Ghoul Priest, trigger the flip of the Act card, go through it and reach the resolution, at which point the scenario ends

Some instructions in the act and agenda decks (as well as on other encounter cardtypes) contain resolution points, in the format of: " (→R#) ." If a resolution point is reached, the scenario ends. Read the designated resolution in the campaign guide.

If you could discover a clue it would happen after the game ends, and you can't do anything after the game ends... So that final kill shot, in this specific example can't let you get rid of that final clue from Cover Up. This just compounds how debilitating Cover Up is.

Edit:

I didn't mention it because it didn't matter much in the example, but Cover Up is a "when" ability, so it would happen without question when a clue is discovered, so the only real question in this example is if you get the opportunity to discover a clue.

Please remember the Grim Rule is just a cute name given to speed game play, not as an overall rules answer philosophy. The point is if you're playing a game and just can't remember or find how a ruling goes, don't waste time looking it up; Grim Rule it and move on. Keeping playing is the main point the Grim Rule is supposed to be addressing. Once the game is over, look over the questions and get ready for the next game, but don't take what was Grim Ruled as gospel. It was a convenience decision made so you can keep on chugging along.

But otherwise, you're right. "When" is before "after" in this game ("when you draw a card" triggers go off before "after you draw a card" is a good way to remember it). Roland's clue-nabbing ability triggers only after all effects of that enemy being defeated are dealt with -- which means, in this case, a Resolution effect that ends the adventure! Oops, poor Roland. Cover Up won't even get a chance to trigger. Let's look:

Enemy is defeated

"When enemy is defeated" effects (the Resolution in this case)

"After enemy defeated" effects (Roland's base ability)

"When you would discover a clue" effects (Cover Up)

Way down the line.

Please remember the Grim Rule is just a cute name given to speed game play, not as an overall rules answer philosophy. The point is if you're playing a game and just can't remember or find how a ruling goes, don't waste time looking it up; Grim Rule it and move on. Keeping playing is the main point the Grim Rule is supposed to be addressing. Once the game is over, look over the questions and get ready for the next game, but don't take what was Grim Ruled as gospel. It was a convenience decision made so you can keep on chugging along.

But otherwise, you're right. "When" is before "after" in this game ("when you draw a card" triggers go off before "after you draw a card" is a good way to remember it). Roland's clue-nabbing ability triggers only after all effects of that enemy being defeated are dealt with -- which means, in this case, a Resolution effect that ends the adventure! Oops, poor Roland. Cover Up won't even get a chance to trigger. Let's look:

Enemy is defeated

"When enemy is defeated" effects (the Resolution in this case)

"After enemy defeated" effects (Roland's base ability)

"When you would discover a clue" effects (Cover Up)

Way down the line.

Glad to hear I had it right, well, except in this case, I'd prefer the other answer!

I agree about the Grim Rule too, I only used it because I can't find anything in the rules giving "If" parity with "When". With no rule to back me up, in game play, I'd have to make the Grim choice. Now maybe somethings need to be taken for granted, and the English Language gives them parity, so that should be enough. It's just mildly irksome when the timing rules call out: "when," "after," "if," or "at." and then only detail timing for "when" and "after". You know, they spell out what to do timingwise if two "When" effects would happen simultaneously, but if a "When" and "If" happen at the same time, should one take precedence over the other? I read it currently as "No" and will treat them equally as "When" for rules that matter until some official update comes out.