EDIT: Oops, left the random out of the title.

Why does this card have a random discard clause? It's a fairly improbable trigger but it turns what otherwise looked like a card good card into an unreliable one. It's one of the cards I'd describe as bad RNG: it makes a card unreliable in a way the player can't influence.

I understand the need for the volatility of Cloaking Device: the TIE phantom only has two base agility for a good reason. But why stick an RNG mechanic in here?

Can anyone explain to me why this couldn't be either flat out discard or simply not discard at all? It seems so unnecessary to me.

EDIT: Oops, left the random out of the title.

Why does this card have a random discard clause? It's a fairly improbable trigger but it turns what otherwise looked like a card good card into an unreliable one. It's one of the cards I'd describe as bad RNG: it makes a card unreliable in a way the player can't influence.

I understand the need for the volatility of Cloaking Device: the TIE phantom only has two base agility for a good reason. But why stick an RNG mechanic in here?

Can anyone explain to me why this couldn't be either a point less but a guaranteed discard or simply not discard at all? It seems so unnecessary to me.

N'Dru with cluster missiles/ homing missiles

and of course thematic reasons as Vineheart says below.

Strictly because its an illicit. Illicits are never a flatout bonus, theyre either a discarded bonus or chance to go away or self harm.

Feedback array is probably the closest to strictly bonus, and it causes self-harm.

N'Dru with cluster missiles/ homing missiles

If that's a bad thing then the RNG has a good chance of refresh every time a nearby ship dies. And if that's not a bad thing then why is the RNG necessary?

Strictly because its an illicit. Illicits are never a flatout bonus, theyre either a discarded bonus or chance to go away or self harm.

Feedback array is probably the closest to strictly bonus, and it causes self-harm.

Then have it discard when used. Instead it has a mechanic where it's a one use discard some games and a non-discard in others. Given I believe that this sort of RNG isn't a good thing in of itself I don't see any benefit to outweigh the cost.

It's an Illicit version of Extra Munitions. You're guaranteed one recharge once a ship goes boom. If you do it right and throw enough dice at a ship you could be firing a new torpedo each turn hence the need for it to need a chance to get discarded. For two points its a nice upgrade.

Strictly because its an illicit. Illicits are never a flatout bonus, theyre either a discarded bonus or chance to go away or self harm.

Feedback array is probably the closest to strictly bonus, and it causes self-harm.

(Edit: fixed grammar. Posting from a phone is funny)

...because it could possibly be an infinite use item without it?

It's more restrictive than Extra Munitions, because it needs a trigger to activate. It isn't an instant +1 use on your ordnance. However, that is contrasted with the potential to use that ordnance more than 1 time. That sort of benefit, could get to be too powerful, though, so the RNG tones it down a little. But this little upgrade works on more than just torpedoes, missiles, and bombs; it also works on modifications, cannons, and turrets. So for the same cost as Extra Munitions, you can "regenerate" a greater variety of upgrades for potentially more than two uses, but you must be within range 1-2 of a ship that is destroyed in order for this upgrade to trigger.

I think it's fine. As many others have said, if you get even one extra use out of your discarded upgrade, this was worth it, even if you roll blank. You can't expect more than that, but if you do get more, you score big.

EXTRA MUNITIONS SCAVENGER CRANE

2 cost 2 cost

2 uses per upgrade 2+ uses per upgrade

torpedoes, missiles, bombs torpedoes, missiles, bombs, cannons, turrets, modifications

instant trigger triggers only when a ship at range 1-2 is destroyed

Because **** you, thats why *to the best of my knowledge)

Same reason as to why cloaking device does

Ie no reason

Except for making you feel bad when **** happens outside your control and possibly makes you lose

If it triggers once, it's as good as extra munitions on a single-ordnance platform. Everything after that just makes it more cost effective.

I don't think it's a bad use of randomness. It is 100% reliable for a single use. If you can get it to trigger once it was probably worth two points. Anything past that is just added value.

I don't think that being within range 1-2 of a ship that is destroyed is difficult trigger at all. This ship doesn't need to destroy the ship and the destroyed ship doesn't even need to be an enemy ship.

Strictly because its an illicit. Illicits are never a flatout bonus, theyre either a discarded bonus or chance to go away or self harm.

Feedback array is probably the closest to strictly bonus, and it causes self-harm.

Agreed, Scum ships are. It built by a manufacturing plant; they are duct taped, zipped tie and glued together by the owner. In other words, not always reliable. It is thematic.

Black Market Slicer Tools: Destresses target if it hits.

Burnout Slam: Single use.

Rigged Cargo Chute: Single use.

Cloaking Device: RNG based burnout when in use to prevent extreme agility tanking, discard impractical.

Dead Man's Switch: Single use.

EMP Device; Single use.

Feedback Array: Damages and ions the ship that uses it.

Glitterstim: Single use.

Hot Shot Blaster: Single use.

Only one other illicit runs on this sort of RNG and it needs to.

I do. It adds a frustrating unreliability without a cause that I can see.

There is no such thing as "extreme agility tanking" when it cones to CD. There is no palp; no soontir. No thrusters even

If youre not attacking, youre not contributing enough unless youre palp or manny neithrr of whom can run with CD anyway

If whisper can roam around with 4 dice and evade and focus AFTER attacking, there is simply no excuse

Cloaking device would have been perfectly balanced with no random drawback

Scavenger Crane seems like a small buff to Serrisu flying with ships carrying ordnance. If you decide to burn down Serrisu, the ships she was protecting get another ordnance shot. It makes the prioritization a little rougher.

Because Scum.

...and also because ficklegreendice.

Because Scum.

...and also because ficklegreendice.

1000% convinced the latter is the actual reason

If whisper can roam around with 4 dice and evade and focus AFTER attacking, there is simply no excuse

Cloaking device would have been perfectly balanced with no random drawback

Possibly, although even if Cloaking Device is needlessly inconsistent that doesn't make it better that Scavenger Crane works on the same model.

Interesting that they went with blanks here and eyes on Cloaking Device, then both have the same odds.

besides unless youre facing a swarmy list, odds are you are going to get it once anyway.

Its range 1-2, its pretty common for a ship to die at range3 of you whether you did it or not. I'd expect about half of the deaths to be out of range of the crane user. If you managed to get it off twice thats already more than expected.

Same mentality as cloaking device. You dont get it for the cloak, you get it for the slingshot. If it doesnt go away, sweet i can use it for the agility later when im in trouble, but right now i just want that slingshot. Every list ive seen utilize it properly didnt care if it went away, but they werent upset if it stayed around.

You take the crane to let you doublebomb or doublemissile something you normally wouldnt have access to. Expecting to triplefire anything like that is being optimistic as hell, both because who the hell is going to let a ship with this thing live that long and if you are banking on getting that third use, and the crane went away on the first attempt, now what? Dont plan for it to stick around, plan for it to only get used once but have options in case it does stick around.

besides unless youre facing a swarmy list, odds are you are going to get it once anyway.

Its range 1-2, its pretty common for a ship to die at range3 of you whether you did it or not. I'd expect about half of the deaths to be out of range of the crane user. If you managed to get it off twice thats already more than expected.

Or if you have a swarmy list. Scavenger Crane isn't picky about who dies. It just demands blood for the blood god.

besides unless youre facing a swarmy list, odds are you are going to get it once anyway.

Its range 1-2, its pretty common for a ship to die at range3 of you whether you did it or not. I'd expect about half of the deaths to be out of range of the crane user. If you managed to get it off twice thats already more than expected.

This is kind of how I feel, too.

I wonder, though ... in a worst-case scenario, how abusive can this upgrade become? Instead of complaining about why the randomness is unnecessary in the average game, let's try to figure out what condition scared the designers into making it random. Thoughts?

It's some rigged up cobbled together piece of equipment that's as likely to fall apart as work correctly. It's not like Scum has access to fully equipped drydocks and shipyards. Some guy probably just welded this thing onto his ship.

Bombs.

Clusterbombs can in theory take out a 6hp ship if you use them right and get lucky.

Proxies can do 3 damage

Conners auto do 1

Protons are a ****

Against the usual 2ship lists (or even 3) it wouldnt be that crazy, since even then youre only getting 1-2 free bombs assuming youre alive to use them.

Against swarms though, or as WWHSD said using your own swarm, you could just endlessly pump out a TON of bombs. With the innate ability to move people around, a thick wall of clusters will not be dodged.

15pts for the PS1 guy, +2 for crane, +4 for clusters, +2 for mod = 23pts. Four of these guys = 92pts, still got 8pts to slap in some other goodies (or bring a named one).

If the crane didnt have a danger of going away, that can EASILY be 10+ groups of clusters. Remember the crane procs off a ship death, so ALL FOUR tugboats would get their bomb back off a single kill. Against say Dengaroo, big deal. Against say a 4man list, which commonly has 1-2 really squishy guys, wow thats a lot of bombs

It's probably not very good but Feedback Z-95s using their last hit point to do a point of damage to an enemy and giving their boss Xizor a torpedo reload is kind of funny.

I'm confused why you have an issue with it operating this way Blue Five. How does it harm you if it isn't discarded on use and isn't guaranteed to last the length of the game? If it bothers you that much, can't you just treat it as a discard after use? With the amount of opportunities it will have to trigger, might be best for everyone to view it that way anyways.

For an ability as wide reaching as this one, it seems like a fine medium. Currently, the cards it combos with seem to tell me that this is an appropriately priced card taking in to consideration the range restriction. ability, chance of discard after use, and upgrade slot.

besides unless youre facing a swarmy list, odds are you are going to get it once anyway.

Its range 1-2, its pretty common for a ship to die at range3 of you whether you did it or not. I'd expect about half of the deaths to be out of range of the crane user. If you managed to get it off twice thats already more than expected.

This is kind of how I feel, too.

I wonder, though ... in a worst-case scenario, how abusive can this upgrade become? Instead of complaining about why the randomness is unnecessary in the average game, let's try to figure out what condition scared the designers into making it random. Thoughts?

Dengaroo regening Countermeasures pretty consistently is scary enough that I'm glad they put the limit on it. Overall though, I think it's just part of being an illicit, which is fine.