Ah, I was wondering if some one was gonna try to make flechette canon tie/D's work. What you want to take against this is self stressors, so the control element of the list means nothing. They won't have mods for every shot, which is nice for you. And finally, take high ps ships to try and kill a defender outright before they get to fire.

On the plus side, flechette cannons only deal a stress if you are not already stressed. So no stacking. As long as you have some way for your ships to clear stress, you should be good. Now the fact that they are on defenders is another story. TIE D's aren't great at action efficiency, so just get as many guns (preferably big ones) on target as possible.

This list is very similar to a TLT list in that all it wants to do is throw tons of dice at the opponent and hope they stick, since most of their attacks aren't going to be modified. I think part of the reason your list fared poorly is the same reason it probably struggles against TLT, almost everytime the opponent rolls dice, you are taking a hit, which means they can practically kill one of your ships a turn, and there isn't much you can do about it, except clever play and positioning, but unlike the TLT list, there isn't a donut hole to hide in.

So, anything that fairs well against TLT should fair well here. Here are some lists I can think of:

1. Big HP lists like 2x Ghost or 2x Decimator. Yes, they will deal about 2-3 hits a turn per ship, but you have the HP to soak it up, and they are not very defensive. I think the 2x Ghost and a Y would eat these Defenders for lunch.

2. PTL Aces will do fine, as the stress from Flechette Cannon won't do anything, and they have the tokens to deflect the majority of the damage.

3. Better Jousting List: BBBBZ or something similar could also fair well, as you have a real shot to kill a Delta before it even fires.

4. Big Ships with Boost and PWT - This can eat this list for breakfast, like a classic Fat Han, Gunner Deci, or Super Dash. Just boost/br out of their arcs

That gives you a start, at least!

Thank you for the ideas!

I didn't think of the Big Ships. It will be time to get them out again. Also, we've been playing it wrong and piled stress on stress, which added significantly to me losing. It's been too long since I played last and I trusted my opponent with the rules.

Maarek Stele (TIE Defender) (35)

Predator (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

TIE/D (0)

Rexler Brath (37)

Predator (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

TIE/D (0)

And a 16 point initiative bid.

or Backstabber

Countess Ryad would be 36 points - base 34 plus 2 points for cannon. She'd only be 32 if she took TIE/x7. Still the list comes in at 100 points but thought I'd point it out just in case you had been mislead.

I think you'll find the strength of this list much reduced if your opponent uses the flechette rule properly! Have fun.

I have killed this exact list using the Runner up list from Worlds (with Corran and Miranda with tons of bombs). I jousted 2 of them with Corran who was stressed anyway, and lost a couple of shields while dealing 3 damage back with a double tap. But then Miranda came around with the countess in pursuit. and put a Conner Net on 2 of them. One of them also hit a rock next turn. I was then able to hit both again with an ion bomb next turn, killing one of them with sabine and TLTing the one on the rock for 2 more. Meanwhile Corran was back to full, despite Ryad now following him. I now had Corran fleeing from Ryad (couldn't outmaneuver her because of the stress from ptl and Flechette) and Miranda in pursuit with a Delta behind Miranda. he realized that he could not kill Corran fast enough so he flipped Ryad to ger both guns on Miranda. I dropped my ion bomb on the Delta, managed to arc-dodge it and gave Ryad a Homing missile treatment for 4 damage. She took the crit where she could not go straight too which is hilarious on her. I took a fair amount of damage in return and was down to hull on Miranda. He then set up a block with his Delta fir Ryad so she could select a bank and still fire at me. But i Cleared the stress, then 2 Slammed away and got Ryad and the Delta with another Conner net. This killed her and made for the 4th time the Delta went straight 1 in this game... By that time Corran also had turned around and obliterated the Delta on the next turn.

Hmm.. strange. Not sure why she is listed as 32 points. Might have been a mixup when I made the list in squadron builder. He definitely played it at 100 points.

Yeah, I think I would have struggled less if Norra hadn't been constantly double stressed. She died last and put up quite a fight, more often than not staying at range 3 and putting asteroids between her and the enemy.

Hmm.. strange. Not sure why she is listed as 32 points. Might have been a mixup when I made the list in squadron builder. He definitely played it at 100 points.

Yeah, I think I would have struggled less if Norra hadn't been constantly double stressed. She died last and put up quite a fight, more often than not staying at range 3 and putting asteroids between her and the enemy.

How was Norra getting double stressed? Flechette Cannons only stress you if you're not already stressed...

The way to kill /Ds is to outmanoeuvre them - even without the need to go fast, they're still predictable - they like the 4k, the 3 turn, and the 1 bank more than pretty much any other manoeuvres, and if you can bump one with two or more guns on it, it's likely dead in the water.

I flew Miranda Norra and Biggs to 2nd place recently, and murdered a host of defenders of both stripes on the way. What was your build? Did you bring enough boom to delete a defender before it shoots? I took a HM Miranda for the 5-dice attack, and a standard Norra. Give it a try - five reds with TL, Focus and no evade tokens makes defenders weep.

If you can arc dodge a defender then your opponents flying them wrong, the way to beat /D is to out pace it's damage it's literally a dps race.

Maarek Stele (TIE Defender) (35)

Predator (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

TIE/D (0)

Rexler Brath (37)

Predator (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

TIE/D (0)

And a 16 point initiative bid.

Downgrade to Countess and add a token dispenser?

I find that Rebel ships have a horrible time with Tie/Ds, especially 3 of them. They normally do not have the green dice to repel a bunch of unmodified shots.

Your best bet is PS killing one of them. Make sure the initial engagement doesn't happen at range 3. There they will have the advantage and probably get some damage in with their cannons. Fletchette cannons kind of stink. Your opponent would probably be better with 1 tractor and an Ion. I've ran the triple cannon list and its pretty **** effective. It's really funny when you tractor, stress, and Ion a single ship in one round.

You can't really bypass range three combat rebels are slow and the /D wants to slow roll in, anyone speeding in fast with non x7's needs a sharp slap.

You just shoot them in the face. Defenders have always been soft to getting shot in the face repeatedly because 3 evade dice and 6 hp never goes as far as you think when your defense strategy is 'take a focus and shoot people'. Focus fire melts them because 3 greens still only averages 1 evade so pummeling ps1 defenders to death isn't horribly hard unless they roll hot or you aren't focus firing.

Hmm.. strange. Not sure why she is listed as 32 points. Might have been a mixup when I made the list in squadron builder. He definitely played it at 100 points.

Yeah, I think I would have struggled less if Norra hadn't been constantly double stressed. She died last and put up quite a fight, more often than not staying at range 3 and putting asteroids between her and the enemy.

Because we were playing the flechette cannons wrong.

I flew Miranda Norra and Biggs to 2nd place recently, and murdered a host of defenders of both stripes on the way. What was your build? Did you bring enough boom to delete a defender before it shoots? I took a HM Miranda for the 5-dice attack, and a standard Norra. Give it a try - five reds with TL, Focus and no evade tokens makes defenders weep.

My list was:

Norra, R2D2, PTL, Tail Gunner, Alliance Overhaul

Miranda, TLT

Biggs, R7

I was going for durability, but they still died really fast. Also, I didn't know what my opponent would bring, so I just went with a list I wanted to play for fun.

The HM sounds interesting. Will give that a go next time.

You can't really bypass range three combat rebels are slow and the /D wants to slow roll in, anyone speeding in fast with non x7's needs a sharp slap.

My opponent has a very in-your-face playing style. The problem is that I don't play often enough to make the best of his mistakes

You just shoot them in the face. Defenders have always been soft to getting shot in the face repeatedly because 3 evade dice and 6 hp never goes as far as you think when your defense strategy is 'take a focus and shoot people'. Focus fire melts them because 3 greens still only averages 1 evade so pummeling ps1 defenders to death isn't horribly hard unless they roll hot or you aren't focus firing.

Yep /D sacrifices durability for superior firepower but you have to beat their damage to win and that's not always so easy.

Defenders that are not X7........easy

Black Sun Soldier (13)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Glitterstim (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Black Sun Soldier (13)
Homing Missiles (5)
Glitterstim (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Black Sun Soldier (13)
Homing Missiles (5)
Glitterstim (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Guri (30)
Lone Wolf (2)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Glitterstim (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Extra Munitions (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Airen Cracken (19)
Trick Shot (0)
Homing Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)

Lieutenant Blount (17)
Trick Shot (0)
Assault Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

"Deathfire" (17)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Conner Net (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Tomax Bren (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

"Deathrain" (26)
Fire-Control System (2)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Conner Net (4)
Seismic Charges (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

While I love Guri the Bomber list if flow right will have your opponent asking what just happened

Defenders that are not X7........easy

Black Sun Soldier (13)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Glitterstim (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Black Sun Soldier (13)

Homing Missiles (5)

Glitterstim (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Black Sun Soldier (13)

Homing Missiles (5)

Glitterstim (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Guri (30)

Lone Wolf (2)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Glitterstim (2)

Autothrusters (2)

Virago (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

While I love Guri the Bomber list if flow right will have your opponent asking what just happened

And how would it be flown right?

Defenders that are not X7........easy

Black Sun Soldier (13)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Glitterstim (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Black Sun Soldier (13)

Homing Missiles (5)

Glitterstim (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Black Sun Soldier (13)

Homing Missiles (5)

Glitterstim (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Guri (30)

Lone Wolf (2)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Glitterstim (2)

Autothrusters (2)

Virago (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

While I love Guri the Bomber list if flow right will have your opponent asking what just happened

And how would it be flown right?

If you have to ask then you are doing it wrong. does that help?

Hard to say any more with out seeing the board set up. Is the Guri list the one you want to fly or the bomber list

The Guri list sounds intriguing.

Mainly after some general pointers on how to fly them.

send the Z95s in first they are expendable fly 1 in the front (the one with Clusters) and 2 in the back and joust the Delta's you should be able to drop 1 before it shoots then have them focus on Ryad the trick with Guri is keep her away from the Z95s so lone wolf always triggers combined with Sensor Jammer she should not take much if any damage keep the pressure on Ryad once she is down Guri should have no trouble finishing off the last Defender

use Big rocks also Defender can have trouble getting around them but Guri can boost to get around and once the Z95 have fired there Missiles they are expendable and you don't need to worry if you fly them through a rock to get a shoot

I have also had good success with this list against large base ship lists

hope this helps