A player made an interesting comment Thursday night that caught me off guard. He mentioned that a player that we both know insists that range is measured from cardboard to cardboard. The rules state closet point to closet point. To me this would include the base. Anyone else run into a player that insists the measurement is from the cardboard token?

A player made an interesting comment Thursday night that caught me off guard. He mentioned that a player that we both know insists that range is measured from cardboard to cardboard. The rules state closet point to closet point. To me this would include the base. Anyone else run into a player that insists the measurement is from the cardboard token?

Its an uncommon misconception I've seen and have been apart of when I first started playing but the rules are quite clear that the base 9the plastic part) counts for measurement

This seems like crazy pills! Why wouldn't the base be part of the model....and more importantly why is the cardboard the point of reference??? I love this forum, it lets me in on the crazy amount of misunderstanding's that go on around the world. I am guessing this guy has not played a lot of miniature games?

Possibly this player has been dabbling in Armada too much. Over there range is measured from cardboard to cardboard.

That's never been the case for X-wing, though. Everything except the template nubs count.

Its actually the opposite, you have to measure base to base. You need the cardboard in order to check whats within arc, but you still measure base to base.

What is a common misconception is that the cardboard is part of the base, which is not. For small and large ships it has no real effect in the game, but for huge ships its kind of tricky sometimes because the cardboard extends beyond the base.

A player made an interesting comment Thursday night that caught me off guard. He mentioned that a player that we both know insists that range is measured from cardboard to cardboard. The rules state closet point to closet point. To me this would include the base. Anyone else run into a player that insists the measurement is from the cardboard token?

Well, it's not quite right for either side there.

Interestingly enough, someone made a similar post on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/5e2bsf/psa_you_measure_from_the_cardboard_when_firing/

Basically, when measuring in arc , you need to stay in the cardboard lines, and the arc actually is not exactly in the corner. However it is still base to base when shooting. So you can have rare situations when you get someone in TL range but actually can't shoot them. Or they shoot you at R2 but your return shot comes back at R3. This is more commonly seen in turreted/extra arc ships.

A player made an interesting comment Thursday night that caught me off guard. He mentioned that a player that we both know insists that range is measured from cardboard to cardboard. The rules state closet point to closet point. To me this would include the base. Anyone else run into a player that insists the measurement is from the cardboard token?

Well, it's not quite right for either side there.

Interestingly enough, someone made a similar post on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/5e2bsf/psa_you_measure_from_the_cardboard_when_firing/

Basically, when measuring in arc , you need to stay in the cardboard lines, and the arc actually is not exactly in the corner. However it is still base to base when shooting. So you can have rare situations when you get someone in TL range but actually can't shoot them. Or they shoot you at R2 but your return shot comes back at R3. This is more commonly seen in turreted/extra arc ships.

One look at the author of that post tells me all I need to know. Paragoomberslayer was banned here for a reason. Looks like he has moved to reddit to make people's lives a misery there.

A player made an interesting comment Thursday night that caught me off guard. He mentioned that a player that we both know insists that range is measured from cardboard to cardboard. The rules state closet point to closet point. To me this would include the base. Anyone else run into a player that insists the measurement is from the cardboard token?

Well, it's not quite right for either side there.

Interestingly enough, someone made a similar post on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/5e2bsf/psa_you_measure_from_the_cardboard_when_firing/

Basically, when measuring in arc , you need to stay in the cardboard lines, and the arc actually is not exactly in the corner. However it is still base to base when shooting. So you can have rare situations when you get someone in TL range but actually can't shoot them. Or they shoot you at R2 but your return shot comes back at R3. This is more commonly seen in turreted/extra arc ships.

One look at the author of that post tells me all I need to know. Paragoomberslayer was banned here for a reason. Looks like he has moved to reddit to make people's lives a misery there.

Actually, surprisingly, he's calmer over there. At least for now.

Actually that is a surprise!

I'm going to second what MegaSilver said; if you are at the edge of arc the attacker might be measuring from the cardboard (because the line does not pass through the corner of the plastic), but the defender is always going to be to the plastic.

technically the little plastic peg for your maneuver templates count as part of your base. Its rather annoying, i like Armada's way better where its cardboard to cardboard and Line of Sight is drawn from the yellow pips.

technically the little plastic peg for your maneuver templates count as part of your base. Its rather annoying, i like Armada's way better where its cardboard to cardboard and Line of Sight is drawn from the yellow pips.

I am pretty sure the nubs only count for maneuvers and overlapping, not range measurement.

The nubs are part of the base. There is nothing saying otherwise.

Like i said, its annoying. I'd be happy to have someone correct me on that. I dont do it but ive had several people do it to me and i couldnt raise an argument. The nubs are indeed attached to the base, thus part of the base.

The nubs are part of the base. There is nothing saying otherwise.

Like i said, its annoying. I'd be happy to have someone correct me on that. I dont do it but ive had several people do it to me and i couldnt raise an argument. The nubs are indeed attached to the base, thus part of the base.

GUIDES

Each ship’s base has two pairs of movement guides,

one pair on the front and one pair on the back. These

guides are ignored for all purposes except executing

maneuvers and overlapping obstacles and other

ships. In those cases, the guides count as part of

the base.

I stand corrected. Thanks

The nubs are part of the base. There is nothing saying otherwise.

Like i said, its annoying. I'd be happy to have someone correct me on that. I dont do it but ive had several people do it to me and i couldnt raise an argument. The nubs are indeed attached to the base, thus part of the base.

GUIDES

Each ship’s base has two pairs of movement guides,

one pair on the front and one pair on the back. These

guides are ignored for all purposes except executing

maneuvers and overlapping obstacles and other

ships. In those cases, the guides count as part of

the base.

Also, on page 10...

Note: When determining ring arc and measuring range, ignore all guides (the two small bumps on the front and rear of each base).

I just made a comment over on Reddit, duplicating it here:

The rules are like this:

"To measure range, place the Range 1 end of the range ruler so that it touches the closest part of the attacker’s base. Then point the ruler toward the closest part of the target ship’s base that is inside the attacker’s ring arc. The lowest section (1, 2, or 3) of the ruler that overlaps the target ship’s base is considered the range between the ships."

They make no mention of "closest in arc" for the attacker (just for the defender), and neither does the FAQ - but instead, there's rather explicit mention of "closest" (which might not be in arc indeed).

Where do you have your rules interpretation from? It appears to be a Vassal consensus, but that doesn't make it right...

Covered in the FAQ Page 5

"Some card abilities use the expression “inside firing arc at Range X” or “inside firing arc beyond Range X.” This compound phrase defines a specific situation where the closest point to closest point distance between two ships, when measured inside firing arc, is at a specific range band. See the diagram below."

I must say, the one thing Star Trek Attack Wing did better is having the bases go in instead of numbs on the outside. I had to answer so many questions about those **** numbs at Worlds. Pesky little things.

Covered in the FAQ Page 5

"Some card abilities use the expression “inside firing arc at Range X” or “inside firing arc beyond Range X.” This compound phrase defines a specific situation where the closest point to closest point distance between two ships, when measured inside firing arc, is at a specific range band. See the diagram below."

There are definitely some really weird instances with "in arc" and "at range X". Take these few examples:

Fenn Rau + Fearlessness + Concord Dawn Title

Fenn Rau => At range 1 => this is closest to closest. You could in theory trigger it on a range 2 shot

Fearlessness => Inside firing arc AT range 1 and inside your firing arc => must be at range 1 when inside the defender's firing arc, but could be at range 2 of Fenn Rau's firing arc. Rare, but possible.

Concord Dawn Title => Inside firing arc AND AT range 1 => the range 1 is closest to closest as the word AND makes it two separate conditions.

Lancers => The side arcs must consider the plastic of the base, therefore the side arcs are actually better than the front and rear. Also, read each pilots ability for IN ARC AT and IN ARC AND AT for the differences like I mentioned in Fenn's abilities.

Covered in the FAQ Page 5

"Some card abilities use the expression “inside firing arc at Range X” or “inside firing arc beyond Range X.” This compound phrase defines a specific situation where the closest point to closest point distance between two ships, when measured inside firing arc, is at a specific range band. See the diagram below."

There are definitely some really weird instances with "in arc" and "at range X". Take these few examples:

Fenn Rau + Fearlessness + Concord Dawn Title

Fenn Rau => At range 1 => this is closest to closest. You could in theory trigger it on a range 2 shot

Fearlessness => Inside firing arc AT range 1 and inside your firing arc => must be at range 1 when inside the defender's firing arc, but could be at range 2 of Fenn Rau's firing arc. Rare, but possible.

Concord Dawn Title => Inside firing arc AND AT range 1 => the range 1 is closest to closest as the word AND makes it two separate conditions.

Lancers => The side arcs must consider the plastic of the base, therefore the side arcs are actually better than the front and rear. Also, read each pilots ability for IN ARC AT and IN ARC AND AT for the differences like I mentioned in Fenn's abilities.

oh for sure, thats why there is a pretty picture in the FAQ to explain all that. I was just quoting for the use of In arc measuring. Also, that was the first place I knew to look to address that being in arc matters for measuring.... Because of the pretty picture.

Covered in the FAQ Page 5

"Some card abilities use the expression “inside firing arc at Range X” or “inside firing arc beyond Range X.” This compound phrase defines a specific situation where the closest point to closest point distance between two ships, when measured inside firing arc, is at a specific range band. See the diagram below."

There are definitely some really weird instances with "in arc" and "at range X". Take these few examples:

Fenn Rau + Fearlessness + Concord Dawn Title

Fenn Rau => At range 1 => this is closest to closest. You could in theory trigger it on a range 2 shot

Fearlessness => Inside firing arc AT range 1 and inside your firing arc => must be at range 1 when inside the defender's firing arc, but could be at range 2 of Fenn Rau's firing arc. Rare, but possible.

Concord Dawn Title => Inside firing arc AND AT range 1 => the range 1 is closest to closest as the word AND makes it two separate conditions.

Lancers => The side arcs must consider the plastic of the base, therefore the side arcs are actually better than the front and rear. Also, read each pilots ability for IN ARC AT and IN ARC AND AT for the differences like I mentioned in Fenn's abilities.

oh for sure, thats why there is a pretty picture in the FAQ to explain all that. I was just quoting for the use of In arc measuring. Also, that was the first place I knew to look to address that being in arc matters for measuring.... Because of the pretty picture.

I also like pictures... harder to dispute than minuscule differences in the syntax of the English language.

ParaGombSlayer's post is correct (even if he's kind of a ****). But it's not worded very much good like (I'm sure I'll do no better).

I think the confusion there is in the idea of "point to point" being interpreted something like plastic corner to plastic corner. As well as the differences between measuring in arc versus from a turret.

Depending on the angles of the ships in question, the closest point in arc can lie anywhere along the plastic edge, WITHIN the printed arc on the attacker's ship token, and the range ruler overlaps the defender's base. However, an attack using a 360 weapon encompasses the entire base, so unlike a forward arc, you can measure from the corners of the plastic base.

Not every interaction within arc is as obvious as it seems, as some have mentioned. Shortly after picking up the Fang, a friend pointed out that when checking for Fearlessness or the Concord Dawn title, you don't need to have your opponents arc in your arc, you can each have the other's rear corner in arc at R1 and still trigger the effect. There's tons of interactions like this now that you need to keep your eyes open for.

Interesting arc interaction I found the other day that I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to use. The word May means you can turn it on or off. The Outrider title says you "May" fire outside of the arc. So, in theory, you could opt to not use the May which would then force an in arc shot that might give you range 2 where a full 360 would cause range 1. It's weird and I would hope to never have to judge such a call.

Interesting arc interaction I found the other day that I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to use. The word May means you can turn it on or off. The Outrider title says you "May" fire outside of the arc. So, in theory, you could opt to not use the May which would then force an in arc shot that might give you range 2 where a full 360 would cause range 1. It's weird and I would hope to never have to judge such a call.

Interesting. Anyone know of a rule that limits this possibility? I feel like there's something I'm forgetting here.