It doesn't, though.
Only the unique pilots can currently equip Virago.
Actually, the Vigo can take it. It doesn't help the Enforcer, though.
The Vigo can only take the title if it also takes VI though.
I mean, sure, while we're slapping illegal upgrades on things...
Drat. Forgot it doesn't have an EPT slot. Poor Vigo just can't catch a break.
Hello Mr. Cerve, thank you for contributing to this post 
.
The thing is that all the superiority fighter you have said, are all a better multy-role fighter than the Kihraxz.
I think you may have a misunderstanding as to what a Multi-Role Fighter is versus a Space Superiority Fighter.
A Multi-Role Fighter is a Fighter that is capable of engaging in Space to Space and Space to Ground combat. In essence, it is a spacecraft intended to perform different roles in combat. Please note that it can also perform roles such as space reconnaissance, forward space control, and electronic-warfare spacecraft (e.g. outfitting the Kihraxz with "Black Market Slicer Tools"). Attack missions include the subtypes: space interdiction, suppression of enemy space defense (SESD), and close space support (CSS).
A Space Superiority Fighter is a type of Fighter designed for entering and seizing control of enemy space as a means of establishing complete dominance over the enemy's space force (space supremacy). Space Superiority Fighters are designed primarily to effectively engage enemy Fighters, more than other types of spacecraft, although some may have a secondary role for air-to-ground strikes (Please note that the TIE Interceptor, a Space Superiority Fighter, is incapable of fulfilling this role as is has no ordinance, nor does it have the Systems or Tech slot upgrade).
Therefore, in X-wing Miniatures, a Multi-Role Fighter would be a Fighter that has at least the following criteria:
Therefore, in X-wing Miniatures, a Space Superiority Fighter would be a Fighter that has at least the following criteria:
In closing, the Protectorate Starfighter does not meet the criteria of a Multi-Role Fighter as it does not have a Systems, Tech, Astromech or Illicit upgrade slot and therefore it cannot be used in this capacity. Secondly, as the Kihraxz Fighter does meet the criteria of a Multi-Role Fighter, (while I admit it would be nice to get some additional upgrades in a future Aces Expansion), it is therefore not "...in need of a fix."
Best Regards,
.
P.S. - I did make a mistake on one of my examples of a Multi-Role Fighter in my earlier post for the TIE Advanced Prototype - as it should be classified as a Space Superiority Fighter, my apologies.
[Edit: Spelling Error]
Edited by SlaveofChristNext time someone complains about the new waves dropping too quickly, I am going to remind them of that a (currently) 4 page thread exists on theorizing 5 Zealous Recruits jousting 5 Cartel Marauders. Hopefully the meta will react in time to counter these OP swarms....
Though I was planning on taking 5x Cartel Marauders to my local Regional next month BEFORE they became cool (again?)
Edited by Hydralisk1015 Cartel Marauders took me to the top 40 at Yavin and won me a store tournament this year. Black Sun Aces are one of the "Mindlink Six" as well.
I appreciate not everyone's willing to put the time in, but they can still get good results.
I'd still MUCH rather take a naked, generic Kihraxz over a naked, generic Protectorate as well (as I'm sure fickle will agree one extra shield is worth more than one extra inverted commas worthless inverted commas green dice)
I hate this argument so much. Maybe, just maybe, you aren't actually better than the consensus in evaluating ships, and you performed above their station through a combination of experience, tricks, and luck?
Not you specifically, but getting real peaved at people telling me that their statistical variance is the norm.
OK, so let me get this straight - you're perfectly willing to go along with people who base their opinion on the raw data but have never picked up the ship in anger, but you're going to disregard the arguments of anyone with positive first hand experience, because it doesn't match your own point of view?
I'm sorry, but that kind of thought process is what led Britain to leave the EU, and Trump to become President-elect.
I don't believe that this is a fair comparison.
You really are comparing apples to oranges. Would you compare an A-wing to an X-wing or a TIE Interceptor to a TIE Advanced? If the answer is no, then the same could be said about comparing the Kihraxz to the Protectorate Starfighter.
Hello Mr. Cerve, thank you for contributing to this post
The thing is that all the superiority fighter you have said, are all a better multy-role fighter than the Kihraxz.
I think you may have a misunderstanding as to what a Multi-Role Fighter is versus a Space Superiority Fighter.
< snip >
All very interesting, but until the X-Wing ruleset includes ground attacks I fail to see how it's relevant.
Hello Mr. Cerve, thank you for contributing to this post
The thing is that all the superiority fighter you have said, are all a better multy-role fighter than the Kihraxz.
I think you may have a misunderstanding as to what a Multi-Role Fighter is versus a Space Superiority Fighter.
< snip >
All very interesting, but until the X-Wing ruleset includes ground attacks I fail to see how it's relevant.
As long as you play 100/6 it's not amazingly relevent, but I've heard a lot of people say the X and the Special-K come into their own in Epic battles, where you can make better use of their ordnance slots.
Edited by Rodent MastermindAll very interesting, but until the X-Wing ruleset includes ground attacks I fail to see how it's relevant.
A valid point.
While this is true, I also wanted to include that it can also do other roles using the Astromech, Tech, System & Illicit upgrade slots that the other (Superiority Fighters) can't do - that's all. Thanks .
P.S. - A notable exception is the Virago. Effectively it becomes both a Multi-Roll & a Space Superiority Fighter (which might also explain why it is so expensive with this upgrade).
[Edit: Additional Content Added]
Edited by SlaveofChristCorrect, but epic is such a different, game of X-wing that it doesn't really apply to what these guys are arguing.
I love mass numbers of ships in epic, by the way, it's easily my favorite casual format.
The Khira-wha? What is this ship you speak of?
/sarcasm
In all seriousness though Talonbane does scare the piss out of me. He has a habit of somehow doing way more damage than you'd expect, so hes generally my first target. Unfortunately for him he isnt hard to remove.
I think the K-fighter is too much of a glass cannon right now without a true punch. Its squishy, arguably easier than a Scyk to take down and doesnt hit much harder. Perhaps go full glass cannon and give it another attack die? Talonbane with a 6die range1 shot would seriously be mean lol but his fragility would balance it.
Also i find it BS that Fenn costs the exact same as Talonbane and basically got the same ability (only slightly better) for the cost of no illicit or shield. Not a fair trade to me. Fenn adds 1 die period at range1, Talonbane only gets +2 instead of +1 range bonus so any range1 missiles dont benefit and hes still 2agi at range1 while Fenn is rolling 4 dice and has title.
Edited by Vineheart01Fenn costs the same as cobra because cobra is kinda crap and ffg wanted rau to be decent
Its a good example of learning from ones mistakes
Edited by ficklegreendice(Snip) I'm not advocating Missile Khiraxz as a primary thing, but upgrading a missile-carrying Z-95, if you were planning to field one, to the tougher, better armed, higher PS and more manouvrable Khiraxz is not a bad plan. (snip)
If you not anyway push through with glitterstim.
Edited by ManagarmrKihraxz was born in the wrong generation
The Mist Hunter too.
Thirdly, an observation (more a personal one but with some experiene behind it): If ten ships end up in a scrum (hell, lets assume 8 because both players lose a ship in the first pass), then it's going to turn into a nightmare of collisions
Very true here. However, a target-of-opportunity scrum works out solidly in favour of the Recruits, as you can't PS kill one of my ships a turn; the best you can hope for is to plink away 1-2 from each ship, where my extra agility comes into play. Personal preference on the green dice vs shield, I suppose.
I don't necessarily know about "hard counter" - because I'm not convinced you'll get generic squads to hard-counter one another as completely as you think they can. Certainly setting the bar that I have to give a 'hard counter' to be viable is somewhat strict.
Hard counter was too strong a word choice, perhaps "will win nine times out of ten" would be more reasonable, given the restrictions.
But, for the sake of argument, a decent fight can be offered by:
2 x Concord Dawn Ace (25)
Autothrusters
Adaptability
2 x Concord Dawn Ace (25)
Fearlessness
Concord Dawn Protector
First off, I like the list. However, blocking from a Marauder isn't something I'm really worried about. Its the exact same thing as a generic X-wing trying to block an Interceptor - possible, but very, very unlikely. It is of course a threat, but not a very strong one against higher PS ships with many, many options available to them with no dependency on green moves.
As for the homing missiles, they aren't as good as you might think. I have 2 PS 5 ships that adore range 1, and two PS 6 (with adaptability) ships that adore range 3. If you give me initiative, then my PS 5 ships will move 5 forward from just outside range 3, and into range 1, then you move, but you now cannot use the homing missiles on the PS 5s because they're too close, and you aren't yet in range of the PS 6s, so no target lock there, ether. In other words, turn 1 of combat will leave you missile-less (or perhaps with 1 shot on the Autothrusters Aces, depending on how well I plan it out). There's not much you can do to avoid having the Fearlessness Aces taking their range 1 shots in that first round besides set up a screen with the Marauders as you said.
But even then, my lowest PS is a 5, so I will enjoy some deadly simultaneous fire before my ship goes down, leaving you less one ship as well. It is a fight, for sure, but I have range 1 and range 3 dominated, and after the homing missiles disappear, range 2 is equally good for me as it is you. Its worth noting that the Fearlessness ships are better than yours offensively and defensively at range 1, even without tokens. I agree that crack shot+homing missiles are an excellent combination (I use them on A-wings with dead-eye as well), but you'd actually be better spreading you fire, as two homing missiles with crack shot will deal 7.75 damage to a token less range 2 Concord Ace.
I have neither the pilot skill nor the firepower to peg missiles at the Adaptability/autothruster aces (where range 3 is as near to untouchable as makes no odds) but a Concord Dawn ace caught at range 2 is dead metal, copping an average of 2 damage including a critical).
A guidance chip+homing missile combo will average 4 hits, with 1 being a crit in this case. Defense is 15/8 blocks (with focus), leading to 7/8 evade after crack shot. I.e, you will one-shot an ace 1/8 of the time, and reduce it to 1 hull on the others. Potent, but not quite strong enough to kill in 1 shot.
,
In return, one of the Cartel Marauders will probably get hoofed in the pods, but two range 2 shots with focus and one range 1 fearless attack without is probably not quite enough to kill it thanks to that shield (it'll take about 4 damage, give or take).
A range 1 fearlessness shot (without tokens) will deal 2 natural damage plus 1 from Fearlessness, for 3 against 6/8 blocks, leading to 2.25 damage overall. The range 2 shots will deal 2.25 damage each, of which 6/8 is blocked, leading to 3 damage overall. Total damage from that round of 3 ships firing is 5.25 damage. In other words, it is very unlikely - but possible to survive the shots.
In return, two range 1 shots (with focus) on my remaining Fearlessness ace would do 3 damage each, of which 9/8 + 1 damage is blocked, leading to 1.75 damage overall. Owch.
There are enough points spare to hand out inertial dampers somewhere, which is good for annoying people. I'm not sure if they'd be more annoying on the Marauders or the Aces. You could issue 2 glitterstimms instead, but then you're at the mercy of random initiative.
True, but inertial dampeners on the BSAs give you guaranteed protection from a range 1 rush by the fearlessness aces, as the cost of not having a target lock for the first round of combat.
Theoretically...
Very true, but I could then take Fenn Rau and ruin an ordnance list with my range 1 power. Opening up the board to other ships countering the Protectorate gets into all kinds of Meta-game stuff.
I'm not claiming either as a 'hard counter', so feel free to disregard. But well-handled they are certainly not a pushover as a matchup.
Absolutely, but I feel that they're still at a disadvantage, mainly because you're leaving two PS 6 aces with autothrusters alive for the endgame.
Missile kihraxz is certainly better than torpedo Protectorate, but I don't think its as good (and works ad odds with) Fearlessness Protectorates - because the ship with barrel roll + boost wants to be at range 1, where missiles tend to fail (excluding cluster mines, which do not shine against AGI 3 anyway).
Given that his pilot ability gives him a lift at range 3 as well as range 1, there is some argument for equipping Talonbane with a homing missile, too. Being able to lamp someone at range 3 whilst being as hard to hit as a protectorate and then closing to finish them off at range 1 (or drop shields and then hammer them in the case of a big ship) is a nice trick.
I like where you're going, and that's certainly viable. But:
Fenn Rau (36)
Advanced Proton Torpedoes
Fearlessness
Concord Dawn Protector
Guidance Chips
With Manaroo support or something else to feed him a target lock, or a range 3 slow play to gain the target lock, then slam into range 1, focus, and unleash a 6 die proton torpedo attack plus a guaranteed 1 hit. You're looking at something like 6.9 damage on a single shot. Goodbye Talonbane, Xizor, Bombers, Soontir, Whisper, etc. I think Talonbane does the opposite of what Fenn does - he wants to be at range , always.
Well, part of the problem is that this is one of those cases where I don't think FFG stuck close enough to the background flavor of the ship. The Kihraxz was built along similar lines to the X-Wing yes (and it has a similar role for Scum in XWM), but it's main draw were lots of aftermarket mod kits and customization hardpoints - with more focus on speed than weapons or armor. By FFGs normal standards it maybe should have switched it's ATK and AGI values, but 2 red ships have their own issues. And instead of neat Mod cards, the pack comes with a lot of EPTs. That said, while Illicit or Mod options could probably improve this, easiest for FFG would be to rerelase the ship with a slightly different model and call in the Vaksai title - the Black Sun made variant which was faster and tougher, and had even more capacity to carry stronger systems. Not sure what the most ideal form that title would take, somebody who actually plays with them probably knows better.
Well, part of the problem is that this is one of those cases where I don't think FFG stuck close enough to the background flavor of the ship. The Kihraxz was built along similar lines to the X-Wing yes (and it has a similar role for Scum in XWM), but it's main draw were lots of aftermarket mod kits and customization hardpoints - with more focus on speed than weapons or armor. By FFGs normal standards it maybe should have switched it's ATK and AGI values, but 2 red ships have their own issues. And instead of neat Mod cards, the pack comes with a lot of EPTs. That said, while Illicit or Mod options could probably improve this, easiest for FFG would be to rerelase the ship with a slightly different model and call in the Vaksai title - the Black Sun made variant which was faster and tougher, and had even more capacity to carry stronger systems. Not sure what the most ideal form that title would take, somebody who actually plays with them probably knows better.
Well...while I may not agree with the original OP (we have respectfully agreed to disagree ) I will admit that I would be excited if FFG did release an Ace pack and further expanded the options available to the Kihraxz - like a title card (thought your idea about the Vaksai sounds very cool 
!). Good input, thanks a bunch .
Perhaps a title along the lines of:
Vaksai (1 point) (Illicit, Kihraxz only) (dual card)
Side A:
If you executed a maneuver using the [bank] or [turn] template this turn you may roll 1 additional die when defending.
Side B:
If you executed a speed 3, 4 or 5 maneuver this turn you may roll an additional attack die.
Choose the side at the start of game - come in hot or set up some evasive maneuvers. Note that its an illicit slot, not a title. This both thematically represents all the after-market add-ons that go into a Vaksai, while simultaneously preventing Talonbane from cloaking everythng to death while gaining another attack die.
Perhaps a title along the lines of:
Vaksai (1 point) (Illicit, Kihraxz only) (dual card)
Side A:
If you executed a maneuver using the [bank] or [turn] template this turn you may roll 1 additional die when defending.
Side B:
If you executed a speed 3, 4 or 5 maneuver this turn you may roll an additional attack die.
Choose the side at the start of game - come in hot or set up some evasive maneuvers. Note that its an illicit slot, not a title. This both thematically represents all the after-market add-ons that go into a Vaksai, while simultaneously preventing Talonbane from cloaking everythng to death while gaining another attack die.
Like it!
Yeah WHERE IS MY KIMOGILA!!!!
Yeah WHERE IS MY KIMOGILA!!!!
The Age of Rebellion sourcebook Lead By Example, I believe.
I agree that crack shot+homing missiles are an excellent combination (I use them on A-wings with dead-eye as well), but you'd actually be better spreading you fire, as two homing missiles with crack shot will deal 7.75 damage to a token less range 2 Concord Ace.
I was assuming the Marauders weren't blocking, and the Protectorate still had a focus token.
As I noted before, assuming you'll successfully block someone is.....questionable, unless you've got a whole pack of blockers to dedicate to the job, or it's a large base, or you have some way to limit their movement options (stress, terrain, etc).
The Marauders are primarily there just to stop a range 1 "rush", accepting they'll shoot after the aces.
A guidance chip+homing missile combo will average 4 hits, with 1 being a crit in this case. Defense is 15/8 blocks (with focus), leading to 7/8 evade after crack shot. I.e, you will one-shot an ace 1/8 of the time, and reduce it to 1 hull on the others. Potent, but not quite strong enough to kill in 1 shot.
Which is why I would probably accept a degree of overkill and put both into the one target. Not ideal, but better than leaving both fearless aces still operational (unless the critical card gods come up in my favour.
Theoretically, you could go all out and take three missile boat aces with veteran instincts and glitterstim.Very true, but I could then take Fenn Rau and ruin an ordnance list with my range 1 power. Opening up the board to other ships countering the Protectorate gets into all kinds of Meta-game stuff.
I'm talking about black sun aces with concussion missiles, exactly as given in the "problem". This was still talking about non-unique-khiraxz-only - the only theoretically question is how good you are at out-timing an opponent - and even against boosting fast fighters, leaving them stranded at range 2-3 can be done; I've seen it done in competitive events. It is, however, very skill and deployment dependent.
Vaksai Upgrade:
I like the idea of a unique illicit - and, as noted, you've got Vader-syndrome to deal with in the form of Talonbane Cobra, which is an issue (upgrading the TIE Advanced.....basically just made Darth Vader better - it didn't really give the other pilots any more table time). I'm not sure about the need for a dual card, though. Unless you've got the means to flip it mid-game, I suspect one will be quickly identified as "the better one" and the other will see no use.
At the same time, I would really, really hesitate to use a unique illicit as a 'fix' for the Khiraxz; because taking up its illicit slot is removing one of the main things it has going for it compared to the Protectorate fighter - which is the ship you're using to argue it needs a fix.
Getting a +1 agility when not flying straight is nice....but then you've no illicit slot....so you're a concord protectorate fighter with a largely worse dial that is for some reason unable to fly in a straight line. Which means the upgrade essentially is a shield upgrade at whatever price you're charging for the card.
An upgrade that turns one ship in a faction into another ship in the same faction isn't ideal; better to try and forge a seperate identity for the Khiraxz fighter (it's kind of a shame the Lancer has already 'bagsied' double illicits if you want something unique).
Edited by Magnus GrendelReasons to take a Kihraxz
1. Talonbane Cobra.
2. You had a hole in your list for a 24-5 point missile carrier.
3. You had a hole in your list for a 20 something ship to tote BM slicers.
4. You really want to run a squad of jousters in scum. Like a lot. And not the ZZZZJJ horde.
Regarding number 4. KKKKZ might be fun, with illicits all around. I only own one though, so who knows.
It's not horrible. that 1 turn covers a lotta sins compared to the T65 imho. It is not, however, gonna be shattering the meta anytime soon. So if you see someone running one, it's probably just because they like it. Ain't nuthin' wrong with that.
that 1 turn covers a lotta sins compared to the T65 imho.
That and the flexible K-turn.
Lacking the Speed 3 turn and 1 straight is annoying, but the former is livable with and the latter is annoying tolerable since (unlike the protectorate and similar) you still have speed 1 banks.
I've played and won a tournament with a list that used three Kihraxz fighters but I think they're trash for the most part and one of those ships you really have to want to play to make them work. The dial isn't the problem, it's more their lack of beef and lack of strong, efficient attacks. I'd rather make the point jump to get an ion hog or TLT hog.
Also, this type of ship just isn't really that good any more and doesn't offer any huge plus plays over other lists IMO. You can win games with them, and some people have, but your advantages are mostly over other suboptimal lists.
