God forbid people tactically play to their strengths instead of just rolling dice

I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm just saying it's freakin' annoying.

If you think that a ship playing to their strengths is annoying, then perhaps you have the wrong mentality about this game.

God forbid people tactically play to their strengths instead of just rolling dice

I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm just saying it's freakin' annoying.

If you think that a ship playing to their strengths is annoying, then perhaps you have the wrong mentality about this game.

No....it's the chasing the dang thing as it runs away and tries to regen shields. It's annoying. It's the same thing when the Falcon had 1 hull point and would run away for the rest of the match. It's not exactly what you want to be doing.

Then again, I'm just answering why people hate Rebel Regen. I'm not suggesting a nerf or anything. It is just more powerful than the /x7 title.

People hate on rebel regen for many of the same reasons they hate on anything else: they just don't like it for whatever reason.

I mean there are some many other things in this game that some people HATE but others are perfectly fine with. Examples include PWT, TLT, Fel, Palpatine, and a host of other things over the years.

I have no problem with evade either... i just wish my xwings could do it

They sort of can in the future with the generic R3 astromech which comes with the ARC-170. When attacking you can change one of the focus results into an evade token.

Together with Vectored Thrusters I should be able to fly my old-school T-65´s more agressively and defensively at the same time!

God forbid people tactically play to their strengths instead of just rolling dice

I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm just saying it's freakin' annoying.

If you think that a ship playing to their strengths is annoying, then perhaps you have the wrong mentality about this game.

No....it's the chasing the dang thing as it runs away and tries to regen shields. It's annoying. It's the same thing when the Falcon had 1 hull point and would run away for the rest of the match. It's not exactly what you want to be doing.

Then again, I'm just answering why people hate Rebel Regen. I'm not suggesting a nerf or anything. It is just more powerful than the /x7 title.

in my experience, i.e the ceaseless eternity that is the Norra v x7 ryad late game, rebel regen is approximately equal to x7

The regen vs /x7 debate is still raging, so I wouldn't definitively say either is better than the other. Also, why is it REBEL regen that we hate? Does nobody hate GONK?

I don't see why it's raging. Let's say a Defender and an E-wing both take 3 damage one round. The Defender will never get it back, but the E-wing can definitely get all those shields back. The potential damage that is mitigated is a lot higher than with the /x7 title.

the E-wing only gets it back if you allow it to get it back

if you deal 6 damage to both, for example, the E evaporates with its evade and useless droid while the Defender lives with its evade

the limited maneuverability during r2-d2 also makes it difficult to avoid subsequent damage, like the defender could very easily do with a white 4k against most ships in the game that would lose action efficiency by continuing to trade dice after their own k or flip, which is generally a red maneuver. A defender can also PS kill lower PS enemies while benefitting from the damage canceling evade, where the E cannot unless the enemy is still in front of him

whichever is superior comes down entirely to how the two players play

It's frustrating and there needs to be a careful balance. Suppose you both engage and your damaged to half points and the rebels are damaged, nearly killed. They can literally run away build shields and not engage and win the game. The balance for me comes with the 'fairplay' aspect. If you deliberately run away and don't engage that's not in keeping with the game but it's the essential tactic to regen. It's very situational but could get messy.

The regen vs /x7 debate is still raging, so I wouldn't definitively say either is better than the other. Also, why is it REBEL regen that we hate? Does nobody hate GONK?

I don't see why it's raging. Let's say a Defender and an E-wing both take 3 damage one round. The Defender will never get it back, but the E-wing can definitely get all those shields back. The potential damage that is mitigated is a lot higher than with the /x7 title.

Also, why is it REBEL regen that we hate? Does nobody hate GONK?

Yeah! And how about IG-88A?

(In all seriousness, I do think it's easier to get the regeneration effects off of Rebels than Scum in most instances. And that's just fine, in my book. It's okay for some factions to do things better than others.)

GONK! not only loses action efficiency (unlike rebel regen; r5-p9 on Poe specifically), but takes up a seat that one of scum's many stupidly impactful crew members could have been riding in instead

This one has baffled me for a while. Why hate regen?

Because nothing is worse than watching you whittle away my health while yours recovers.

Only real reason I dislike regen is because most ships have boost. By the time it takes others to turn around and chase, that regen ship is up one to three shields , by the time another ship catchs it. In the process it has not regen at all.

This one has baffled me for a while. Why hate regen?

Because nothing is worse than watching you whittle away my health while yours recovers.

same applies to flying anything without guaranteed damage cancels versus things with them

edit: i.e precisely why I gave up on non-regen poe Hotr T-70s

Extreme damage mitigation in this game is definetly no fun, but regen is worse (for me at least) than token stacking aces even if they might have similar results many times.

As others have mentioned the biggest issue is someone with regen running away to regain all their shields back before rejoining the fight.

Probably the only "fair" use of regen in the game is IG-88-A. It's limiting, and it's random how you use it. Even then hardly anyone uses his ability.

I don't think it's any surprise that R2-D2 came up many times in the "most hated upgrade card" thread. I still stand by what I said in my thread about nerfing regen, I think there should be a limit on how many times you can do it in a game. That makes it fair for both parties. Those who like regen still get to get several shields back potentially in a game, and those who hate it don't have to worry anymore about games where ships regen their shields multiple times over.

thing is, regen is already "fair"

it's very easily in line with other sources of damage mitigation such as x7

fitting in to one's personal definition of "fun" is another story

thing is, regen is already "fair"

it's very easily in line with other sources of damage mitigation such as x7

Not... really. Get a regen ship down to one hit point, it can still get away and get up to 3 to 5 hit points.

Get an evade ship down to 1 hit point, it can only ever get one more from the evade token, and it's still easier to kill.

Extreme damage mitigation in this game is definetly no fun, but regen is worse (for me at least) than token stacking aces even if they might have similar results many times.

As others have mentioned the biggest issue is someone with regen running away to regain all their shields back before rejoining the fight.

Probably the only "fair" use of regen in the game is IG-88-A. It's limiting, and it's random how you use it. Even then hardly anyone uses his ability.

I don't think it's any surprise that R2-D2 came up many times in the "most hated upgrade card" thread. I still stand by what I said in my thread about nerfing regen, I think there should be a limit on how many times you can do it in a game. That makes it fair for both parties. Those who like regen still get to get several shields back potentially in a game, and those who hate it don't have to worry anymore about games where ships regen their shields multiple times over.

Ok limit it, but all Rebel ships get a cost reduction.

Why do people hate Rebel Regen?

Because people are stupid. Lots of people hate R2D2 with a passion but think X7 is just fine. This is either bias or ignorance.

What they fail to realize is that 95% of the time an Evade token is effectively the same as a regained shield (both reduce your incoming damage by 1 this turn), except an Evade token can be locked by 4-LOM crew.

The difference is that X7 is -2 points and non-unique while R2D2 is 4 points and unique. Oh, and R2D2 forces you do to a 1-Bank or a 1-3 Forward, so it makes you slow and predictable and keeps your from turning around. R2D2 can only go on ships with 1-2 Agility except for Corran who becomes half your list and is vulnerable to Wampa, BMST (ept pending), and soon Kylo Ren, while the X7 works on ships with 3 Agility and are much cheaper and have +1 total HP. The X7 works with 3-5 Forwards, 3-5 K-Turns, and 3 Turns so you can pursue, run, or turn around much more easily than a Rebel ship with R2D2.

The difference is that a ship with R2D2 can run away and stay out of the fight for multiple turns to regen all of its shields back, while an Evade token is lost at the end of the round. But seriously, if you can't keep up with a wounded slow Rebel fighter doing greens each turn as it fails to get its guns turned back around on you, then you probably weren't in a position to win that game anyways...

Why do people hate Rebel Regen?

Because people are stupid. Lots of people hate R2D2 with a passion but think X7 is just fine. This is either bias or ignorance.

What they fail to realize is that 95% of the time an Evade token is effectively the same as a regained shield (both reduce your incoming damage by 1 this turn), except an Evade token can be locked by 4-LOM crew.

The difference is that X7 is -2 points and non-unique while R2D2 is 4 points and unique. Oh, and R2D2 forces you do to a 1-Bank or a 1-3 Forward, so it makes you slow and predictable and keeps your from turning around. R2D2 can only go on ships with 1-2 Agility except for Corran who becomes half your list and is vulnerable to Wampa, BMST (ept pending), and soon Kylo Ren, while the X7 works on ships with 3 Agility and are much cheaper and have +1 total HP. The X7 works with 3-5 Forwards, 3-5 K-Turns, and 3 Turns so you can pursue, run, or turn around much more easily than a Rebel ship with R2D2.

The difference is that a ship with R2D2 can run away and stay out of the fight for multiple turns to regen all of its shields back, while an Evade token is lost at the end of the round. But seriously, if you can't keep up with a wounded slow Rebel fighter doing greens each turn as it fails to get its guns turned back around on you, then you probably weren't in a position to win that game anyways...

This. You can call R2-D2 overpowered the day you can hard turn or K-turn while getting your shield back...

Some regen is balanced and fine. Miranda is the prime example as she only has 1-agility & only regens when she has a shot.

R2-D2 on Corran Horn (& to a lesser extent Poe) actually increases variance in a way. This is because the game comes down to the one chance you have to focus fire Corran. If Corran roles all the evades you lose, he just flys away & regens. If he blanks those evades he's dead and you have won. Many games against Corran are decided by 1 round of dice rolling & this is HORRIBLE!

A similar pivotal turn against an X7 defender is not as often game deciding. Let's say between 2-4 damage is done after focus firing. The game continues like normal and is likely not decided in that 1 round of fire.

Corran Horn regening 3-shields creates more value than Palpatine does in most games! And R2-D2 only costs 4-points & 1 upgrade slot.

Corran Horn + R2-D2 = NPE

I only dislike regen in timed tournament play since an opponent can "game" the game. Same as any opponent running away for timed win.

So glad Large Ships ship rule, half points for half damage. Maybe regen lists should have a similar type of rule.

No, Corran has to regenerate a lot more than three shields to achieve the kind of value Palpatine often produces. Calculating the value of extending a ship's life isn't simply a matter of dividing a ship's cost by the number of shields and hull multiplied by the number of extra shields you get even before you factor in the opportunity costs ships that use R2-D2 pay by using greens. I'd have to go digging for the post where Major Juggler explained the actual statistics he used to get his estimates for the amount of value Palpatine typically generates in excess of his price, though.

I only dislike regen in timed tournament play since an opponent can "game" the game. Same as any opponent running away for timed win.

So glad Large Ships ship rule, half points for half damage. Maybe regen lists should have a similar type of rule.

Regen is sooooooo thematic