Rebels have all the good stuff. They were the first with PWTs, they also have regen. What do Imperials have, cloak?

Disclaimer: I play ONLY Imperials. I have a limited gaming budget and only buy non-Imp ships if they have something I seriously need.

Gutting regen would mean ruining competitive Rebels. If they did that, there would ONLY be room for big ships and Biggs. Regen gives the Alliance a late-game closer model, and without the three current regen builds (Corran, Miranda, Poe), what do they have that can do that role? Original Flavor Han?

However , R2D2 Corran and R5P9 Poe give TREMENDOUS value, and are nigh-unbeatable end game one v. one. Last weekend I had a RAC with Palp and even though I could arc dodge into range 1 every turn and make four dice into hit hit crit crit, he had the reliable defenses to negate three of those and the last hit sproinged off his shield. He could simply turtle up, confident that as long as he didn't blank his evades he'd live until time ran out.

They are also very difficult to kill as a priority target, unlike (for example) Omega Leader. Both have high enough PS that it's difficult getting multiple arcs on them, Poe has Autothrusters + his ability, and Corran... I've never trusted evade dice, but be damned if every Corran I've come against can't make them dance.

The hit and run playstyle of doubletapping Corran meshes so well with R2D2 that it means it can joust very successfully - yes, it may trade all three of its shields when it shoots you, but by the time you get arc on it again it's put those shields back on it.

Let's do a jousting comparison between an x7 Defender and Corran - x7 Focuses and gets its evade, Corran focuses and evades as well. Both have an equal chance to whiff the first shot - only .5 chance of a single damage. On that second tap, however, Corran drops two damage into the Defender - damage it can't recover.

And does that for infinity. It doesn't matter if the Defender scores three hits; Corran's wiggly enough that by the time the Defender has him in arc again, he's got those three shields back.

And before you say "learn to play" know that I killed Corran last night against a highly skilled player, but it took Omega Leader and Quickdraw at close range, with Quickdraw taking a double tap herself. I had to put a total of 15 attack dice at him, all heavily modded, to put him down - admittedly over time, as he did regen two shields, but ****.

I mainly play imperials. Honestly regen isnt an issue... its as frustrating to us imp as my soontie/tetran/phennir 'never in your arc' list is to xwing pilots.

To *me* the bind is scum lists that control you, but even though its frustration city.. its the game, deal with it.

I like what you wrote. Well said

Gutting regen would mean ruining competitive Rebels. If they did that, there would ONLY be room for big ships and Biggs. Regen gives the Alliance a late-game closer model, and without the three current regen builds (Corran, Miranda, Poe), what do they have that can do that role? Original Flavor Han?

Regarding the argument that Rebels need regen cause they wouldn't be competitive anymore...

Maybe FFG should fix the large number of Rebel pilots that aren't competitive. Regen being a must fly upgrade is sad and limiting. This fact is why I haven't flown rebels since the end of 2015. There are so many conversations on this forum we could skip if they would simply fix T65 and T70 X-wings to be tournament viable without regen. Then we could nerfhammer Corran + R2-D2 and it would be okay because Rebels have other options.

It's the same with Zuckuss crew right now. Some people don't like Zuckuss, but we need Zuckuss because how else do you even damage an X7 Defender?

The mental experience between token stacking and regen is quite different. It can be frustrating to keep shooting at a target that dodges everything you throw at it, but you still know that when you do put the damage on it then it will die. A regenerating ship can just feel like an unkillable monster with no consistent way to track your progress since it can theoretically keep regenerating indefinitely.

For some people, perhaps the opposite is true. It probably depends on what/how you like to play as well, the most annoying thing is usually the thing that specifically counters the thing you like.

I dont hate Regen, but it can be very frustrating to take the shields off something and then see it put them all back on, and then do it again and sometimes Again.

I think regen gets a bad rep unfairly.

Criticisms break down into 3 types ...

1 its overpowered

2 its a npe

3 it warps the game

To which I'd say...

1 it's the unique faction strength for rebels, and it's an expensive mechanic when compared to palpatine (who is brutally undercosted.

2 disagree - chasing a rebel as they flee into an asteroid field whilst trying to repair their ship is thematic as hell. Beating regen can be done well (blocking and focus firing), or it can be done easily (wampa, hscp, plasmas, stealing, ion).

3 it IS the game, its been with us since wave 1. All the strongest effects change a base mechanism, its what makes them the strongest effects. Take away regen, and youd have to remove palp, zuck & co to maintain anything resembling balance. And by doing that youd have made X-wing a much worse game...

I actually like regen more than extreame mitigation, mainly because you see that your attacks actually manage to do something, by removing shields, with extreme mitigation it is really disheartening to see all your attacks deal no damage and the ship stay in the fight.

And at least usually 2 dice attacks might actually do something on a regen ship, it's very unlikely that anything with a 2 dice attack will put any damage through a mitigation ship unless it is through swarm

I actually like regen more than extreame mitigation, mainly because you see that your attacks actually manage to do something, by removing shields, with extreme mitigation it is really disheartening to see all your attacks deal no damage and the ship stay in the fight.

And at least usually 2 dice attacks might actually do something on a regen ship, it's very unlikely that anything with a 2 dice attack will put any damage through a mitigation ship unless it is through swarm

You and I are in the same exact mindset. Fighting a Palp ace/defenders list and for over half the match, nothing gets through is so frustrating and not fun. At least you can hit the rebels.

This. You can call R2-D2 overpowered the day you can hard turn or K-turn while getting your shield back...

Shara Bey or Norra Wexley, Nien Numb Crew, R2-D2, Lighting Reflexes.

Really, near anyone with LR, but Nien makes a good spot on an ARC beause 1-4 forwards are green, so you don't have to go slow

R2-D2 is overpowered.

More seriously, x7 is only on one type of ship. Rebel regen capabilities spans multiple classes of ship and therefore is much more troubling.

Complaining about Rebel regen when X7s are the meta list is cute.

Anyone seriously suggesting a regen nerf had better be suggesting some significant buffs in exchange for Rebel ships. The E-Wing particularly goes from having one very strong pilot to having no strong pilots.

I don't hate rebel regen, especially now that there's more ways to counter it. But I do dislike how it dominates the rebel play style (palp too), making a lot of games feel too similar for my liking. I deal with it the same as Biggs, gun it down asap, or force it out of the fight (just don't let it be a 1v1 end game when it returns).

I don't hate rebel regen, especially now that there's more ways to counter it. But I do dislike how it dominates the rebel play style (palp too), making a lot of games feel too similar for my liking. I deal with it the same as Biggs, gun it down asap, or force it out of the fight (just don't let it be a 1v1 end game when it returns).

Trust me, i'm not a fan either. But i run it because i HAVE to.

Take away R2-D2 (the rebellion's best card since wave 0), and what happens? All x-wings except Biggs become permanently unplayable, due to low durability. Corran's also out, and ARCs take a loss.

Just two days ago I played against a friend who detests the regeneration tactic, saying it was unfair for my 43 point Poe to not die immediately to his two ships. I ended up losing the game, but it made me realise something; Those who play rebel regen view Soontir Fel and his ace pals as "unfair" because of their absurdly overpowered action economy, and those who play Imperial Aces view rebel regen as unfair, because of their absurdly unfair durability.

Its a constant cycle of justifying one's own choices by stating that another's are 'unfair' when, really, overpowered abilities make the game of x-wing work. Just because you can't damage my ship it doesn't mean that its overpowered. It means that you've made a mistake, and have to suffer for it. If one looks at the top tables of regional championships and Worlds 2016, how many rebel regen players do you see? Zero? One out of sixteen? Then think about the number of Dengaroos, Palpmobiles and Double - VCX-100s in the top sixteen. All of them, most likely.

Rebels have been on the back burner for a long, long time (excluding Ghosts). Regeneration is the only thing keeping them in the small-base ship fight.

I don't hate rebel regen, especially now that there's more ways to counter it. But I do dislike how it dominates the rebel play style (palp too), making a lot of games feel too similar for my liking. I deal with it the same as Biggs, gun it down asap, or force it out of the fight (just don't let it be a 1v1 end game when it returns).

Trust me, i'm not a fan either. But i run it because i HAVE to.

Don't get me wrong, it looks fun and I'll probably try it someday (been playing 4 years and I've run Rebel maybe 5 times, lol; procrastination king). Nathan Eide's worlds list (2015?) and his bait and switch tactics was really fun to see in action.